ITB's for my ka24de finished. *pics

[RBS14]

hahah Var, not everyone can have a zo6.

well I could if I stole yours but that's another day....

[Enemy]

I can't wait for some media and write ups on this project.

I haven't been this excited about anything since... ... ... Well, since last nights episode of Family Guy.

[RBS14]

well here's a write-up I did a little while back.

Just recently got this project running, so I might as well do a writeup.

Here goes.

Intake mani and TB's

First, get some 01' or higher Suzuki GSXR 1000 or 750 Throttle Bodies.

Then get an extra intake mani.

Cut the runners off approximately 6" from the head flange.

Go to Home Depot and get some rubber plumbing couplers. They're about $5 a piece with clamps.

Clamp the Mani and TB's together to yield this...









And with the couplers trimmed down, and the velocity stacks on...





Now make 2 brackets that brace the TB's to the mani, for extra strength.

I used 3/4" by 3/16" steel. You can find this at Home Depot. Bolted one end to the TB's and the other slips under the mounting point for the PCV rail. Make one per side. Should look something like this...



Now make a bracket for the throttle cable to slip into. I used 1 1/2" angle iron. This can also be found at Home Depot. Make it to bolt onto the mounting surface that the EGR used to sit on.





Get a SOHC throttle cable. The DOHC one is wayyyy too long. The SOHC cable is too long too, but better than the DOHC one. The end of the Nissan throttle cable that slips onto the throttle wheel fits in the Suzuki throttle wheel perfectly.

get two air boxes from a 01' and up GSXR 750. These have the shortest velocity stacks. Each airbox has two short stacks, and two long ones. Once you have 2 boxes, you will have two full sets of velocity stacks to help you achieve the best powerband down the road.



That's it for the manifold part of things.

Now the fuel management.

I chose to use a MegaSquirt (MS) because of price, and because, well, I love DIY stuff as you can probably see. haha

Get your board and bags of components all lined up like so...



Build the stimulator first. This will help you learn how to make proper solder joints befor you start soldering the actual MS together. The stimulator hooks up to Megasquirt and stimulates the MS such that it thinks it is running an engine. What this does is allow you to make sure all of your MS is built and running correctly before trying to start the car with it. It also allows you to download new codes to the CPU chip as you see fit, without having to have the MS in the car. Very trick.



Follow the MegaManual at www.megasquirt.info and you will end up with this...



Now build the pigtail for the wiring harness...



and here's a better pic of how many wires there are. This is the entire engine harness. Stock one gets removed completely.



that's basically it for the MS.

Now for the ignition setup.

I chose to run a distributorless system off of early 90's Ford Escorts. This system uses a trigger wheel that is mounted to the crank pulley to fire the ignition instead of a gear driven distributor. This has many advantages, the first of which being that it is more accurate than the stock distributor. It also gives full control of the ignition timing.

from left to righ in the pic below, we have the EDIS module, the VR sensor (reads the trigger wheel on the crank pulley) and the Coil.



Here is a picture of the spark plug wires modified to fit down the spark plug holes in the valve cover. the boot that connects to the plugs has about a 30 degree bend in them so I bent them back straight, and trimmed the boots until they slid down into the holes in the valve cover.



Next, you have to get a trigger wheel made. I have a friend who is a CNC machinist, so he made one for me, as well as prepping the crank pulley for the wheel.



And the wheel fit onto the pulley looks like so...





Now make a bracket to mount the VR sensor onto. I put mine where the A/C compressor used to be. just some more of the angle Iron used before, long enough to mount the sensor on, facing the crank pulley.

Next, make a block off plate for the hole that the distributor used to occupy. I made mine big enough to mount the new coil to, as that is as far as the plug wires would reach. Just simple 1/8" thick steel. when finished it looks like this bolted to the engine, with the new coil mounted on it.





On a side note, here is the stock KA24DE timing map I scaled down. I have used it and it works great.



Putting it all together.

Now pull off your stock intake mani, and take out your engine harness. You will no longer need either of these. bolt the new mani onto the engine, it should look something like this...











You can also see in those pics the wiring harness was finished. It's simply following the diagram, running each wire to each sensor.

the only things that were not on the diagrams were the tach signal, water temp gauge and the switched ignition power supply. the Tach signal was cake, run a wire from the Clean Tach Out pin on the EDIS module to the Tach input on the back of the gauge cluster. That's it. Speedo will still work. Run a wire from the second temp sensor in the intake mani to the coolant temp input on the back of the gauge cluster. that's all for that. And the B/R wire coming from the igntion switch on the steering column needs to be tapped into to get switched power to MS, and the ignition components.



However, the wiring diagram for the ignition is slightly off. the polarity of the VR sensor wires is opposite than in the diagrams, so wire that up accordingly.

I used the stock injectors for now, but I have some SR injectors lying around waiting to go in. Stock injectors will be enough for now.

for the brake booster, I used the stock PCV rail, and ran one line from its output to the brake booster. Has worked great. I also Tee'd a 1/4" vacuum line out of this line, on it's way to the booster, for the fuel pressure regulator. Before doing any of this, I measured the vacuum in this line, and in the rest of the intake mani under all braking conditions, and the booster did not affect the vacuum in the engine. This being so, it is safe, and fine to run the vacuum for the FPR from the brake booster vacuum line.

the TB's come from the factory with a vacuum line from each port Tee'd into one. this is used for the map sensor. Simply run a line from this to MS. the MAP sensor is inside the MS box.

Then swap out the throttle cables, and hook the SOHC one up.

Finally, plug the EGR hole in your header.

If I recall correctly, this is about it for what I did on this whole project to get it running. for the specifics of the MS building and whatnot, and the ignition specifics and diagrams, visit www.msefi.com and www.megasquirt.info.

I specifically did not go into extensive detail in these areas because it is covered very well at those two sites.

So finally start it up and get it idling correctly. Do this by adjusting the screw that adjusts how far open the throttle plates are at "closed" so it has an idle speed you like, and adjusting the fuel amount in the MS. You can then get your own wideband to tune it, or take it to someone. Wichever's clever.

After tuning it, GO DRIVE IT! Don't forget to give yourself a pat on the back too!

Please forgive me if I have forgotten anything, it is a very long project, there is so much to do. I may have left a few small details out, but this is the major stuff.

Driving impressions
I don't have it tuned very well yet, but I can tell you that throttle response is immediate. The engine also revs up MUCH quicker. It does not feel like the lunky old KA. It's a whole new engine. This definately made it come alive. It is, of course MUCh louder also. It no longer sounds like a KA. Sounds way more pissed, like an engine with 2x the displacement.No dyno slips yet, but once I get one, I will be certain to post it up, as well as a video/soundclip.

Cheers
Scott Slater

[acacg]

i give u much props man... i wanna see what it sounds like....

[broken_s13]

Looks great...Major props and respect man. Great work.

[Maeda]

Scooter
N/A is slow when will you learn? =)

Is it working better(faster) yet since you fixed the MS problem?

[RBS14]

Originally Posted by Maeda

N/A is slow when will you learn? =)

Funny you should say that....

This proves that you are correct...



Woo fucking hoo.

so all you people that were jocking it can rethink now....



Cams and high comp better bring me up to 200 or I'm going to kill everyone.

I hate life now.

[Eternal_240Sx]

omg thats it?!?!? well still much props for doing it

[Maeda]

Originally Posted by RBS14

Funny you should say that....

This proves that you are correct...



Woo fucking hoo.

so all you people that were jocking it can rethink now....



Cams and high comp better bring me up to 200 or I'm going to kill everyone.

I hate life now.

Wow. Now I feel guilty.........
Cams should see a pretty damn good gain.
And keep in mind that dyno's don't really measure horsepower...

Just let me know when you're over it so I can start making fun of you again.

[Flybert]

Scott, doesn't a setup like that work best with ridiculous cams. Maybe some headwork would help out as well.

BTW, I'll most likely be at buttonwillow on the 29th. I'm curious as to how this thing sounds.

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by RBS14

Cams and high comp better bring me up to 200 or I'm going to kill everyone.

Terrist!!!!11!!one!!1!

[Flybert]

From the looks of the graph, you are gonna wanna get some cams that move your torque curve over about 1500 RPM's. Take that shit up to 7000. What's with the 6500 BS.

[RBS14]

yeah Chris, crazy cams and ITB's go hand in hand.

that's next.

Anyone got some?

I really want to get a crazy head built, but I don't have 3k lying around. And production aftermarket cams for DE's are only the beginning of what lift I should be running. So a crazy head is mandatory if I want to throw in some REAL cams.

[Ritz S14]

THere were pdm cams for sale a few months ago, damn the were a real steal....

[luisgonz]

Please post video soon........ I want to hear it..

[that180guy]

mmmm....the sound of big lift cams on a na motor...sooooo hawt...wayyyy better then that "vacum leak" sound that all u turbo guys love so much.

Rb, best bet with the cams on a ka rite now, JWT. I havent found much in the ways of a big DE cam designed for NA. And the pdm cams are garbage, theyre not that much better then rockin a 91 exhaust cam. PLUS, they are regrinds.....im just not cool about regrinded cams. but none the less, the JWT C1's best bet you and i are lookin at, but the do require stiffer valvesprings. in any situation using a large cam, usually springs are at the least needed

also, Imho, if ur gonna rum some kind of gigantic cam, mine as well go the whole 9 yards with the built head. But they do require stiffer springs for the wayy higher lift you get. Imho, if ur gonna rum some kind of gigantic cam, mine as well go the whole 9 yards with the built head. you alreayd got the means to suck a shitload of air


i have the same plans as you, except itb's and high comp, because i rather not use fuel additives in my gas tank everytime i fill up. my plans are ems, and built head. should hopefully net about 180 at the wheels.

hit me up on aim or something, id love to talk na, too many :ghey: turbo lovers here ...us na boys are....a very small minority, lol

[Maeda]

Originally Posted by that180guy

too many :ghey: turbo lovers here ...us na boys are....a very small minority, lol

Thats because na is slow, and the cost per dollar is just not feasable. =)

[kandyflip445]

PDM cams are no longer regrinds.

[wootwoot]

hahahah. Sorry to laugh but I tottally expected you to have have had cams, headwork, and highcompression long before this step. You went for the one thing most people did as a last resort and put it as your first! I'm not judging this set up at all until you do those other things sir.

[s13dan]

wow, look awesome gots to respect the all motor power.

[420sx]

you need at least to get the cams/stiffer valve springs. it should move the curve alot

[raen419]

scott, don't get beat down over the numbers.
you do your research quite well, you do your work really f*cking well....so in the end, your results will rock.

get cams and valve springs/retainers, maybe have the head (or a spare one cleaned to drop in) and you should see 200rwhp. if not....turbo it. get a custom plenum made and rock that shit.

[zenkiDori]

post p a sound clip, I think that alone may be worth the conversion.

[90RS13]

You know, we also don't know how much power you were putting down before this. I mean, there is a chance that your motor was making below average power. ITB's could've given you 10whp, but you just don't know.

[Phlip]

Dammit, Scott, you were almost my hero for 11 pages, now I am just plain disappointed!!1!one!!11oneoneone!!! (j/k) I am interested in seeing how this thing sounds, quit fuckin around and post the vid.

[Maeda]

Scooter I just thought of something really cool.

Since you got a daily beater...
and since your torque curve rules...
you should buy a 4.6 final drive.

ps
Did you NOT put in the sohc pistons???
I thought you did.

[Var]

THe car is super loud man..Sounds very very pissed off. There are NO SOHC pistons in it yet.

[infinitexsound]

phlip it sounds monstrous......... basically at high rpm.... theres like a demon under the hood trying to get out..... seriously

[raen419]

well, with the way you guys talk....it's making me want a damn sound clip.
and i agree, a 4.6 final drive would rock.
hell, 4.3 would be good too.

anything's better than the stock 3.8 or 4.0....whatever it is.

btw, KA's only make like....125rwhp in stock form. w/ scott's 3" exhaust and whatnot, i would imagine 132ish rwhp.
so basically, the itb's gave him what like....20rwhp? that's really not that bad.

w/ a lightened pulley it would probably make a better power band as well.

i vote he keeps going and builds the head (in due time of course).
he knows what he's doing, and he's enthusiastic as hell....so why not keep going?

[shinrekka]

can you please post a sound clip or even better a video clip, im sure im not the only one that checks back constantly for some sort of way to hear this beast. The way it sounds it what is gonna be the deciding factor as the weather i do ITB's or the new boost designs intake manifold. And from what people are saying, this thing sounds amazing, so please if you get some time, im dying to hear this thing. I must say awsome work tho, i love to see someone tryin to get power out of a NA KA, im doin the same thing. Good luck!