Nissan GTR Thread

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by Neejay

Wow. Finally, about damn time. That is good news.

EDIT: Think that contributes to the price? (more money spent on testing + finding specs that would be universal, globally?)

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Technically that should make the price lower

Correct. The more continents they can spread the car across the better. This all was factored in with this new GTR.

[xcusememisswyn]

Originally Posted by wootwoot

Technically that should make the price lower

No it would be higher, because making it qualify for every country's safety and emissions laws while still making that power would involve a lot of research and technology.

[ThePenIsMightier]

But not if they engineered it to meet the strictest laws from the beginning, like a smart company would do.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

No it would be higher, because making it qualify for every country's safety and emissions laws while still making that power would involve a lot of research and technology.

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

But not if they engineered it to meet the strictest laws from the beginning, like a smart company would do.

Exactly^. This car was designed from the START to be a global car. One of the reasons why it's built on a modified 350z/G35 chassis.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

But not if they engineered it to meet the strictest laws from the beginning, like a smart company would do.

Everyone has different specs to what is safe and clean. Cars that pass in Japan won't pass here and some of the American cars wouldn't pass there. SR for example will pass a sniffer, but has no EGR so it fails here.

[xcusememisswyn]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Exactly^. This car was designed from the START to be a global car. One of the reasons why it's built on a modified 350z/G35 chassis.

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

But not if they engineered it to meet the strictest laws from the beginning, like a smart company would do.

The point is, even if they did it from the beginning, building the car to meet every country's regulations would cost more than building a basic car, and making small adjustment for every country, sacrificing power here, and safety there, etc.

It takes more technology and research to please every country, its not a matter of just clearing the strictest country's rules, because there are still standards that the less strict countries need met individually as well. To take one car, and make it pass EVERY law, safety, and emissions test in EVERY country it will be sold costs a lot more than building a car and dumbing it down where needed. Technology and research to pass all these laws at once means more cost.

If this were not true then every car would be universal, because it would be the cheaper route, but its not, and the cost gets passed on to the MSRP and the consumer.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

The point is, even if they did it from the beginning, building the car to meet every country's regulations would cost more than building a basic car, and making small adjustment for every country, sacrificing power here, and safety there, etc.

It takes more technology and research to please every country, its not a matter of just clearing the strictest country's rules, because there are still standards that the less strict countries need met individually as well. To take one car, and make it pass EVERY law, safety, and emissions test in EVERY country it will be sold costs a lot more than building a car and dumbing it down where needed.

If this were not true then every car would be universal, because it would be the cheaper route, but its not, and the cost gets passed on to the MSRP and the consumer.

Again, since it was made on the same platform as two cars sold here in America,a nd not on a platform that needed to be modified to meet American standards, the cost isn't as bad. Now, if it was made a platform of say the R34, then they would have to put much more money into making it meet American's standards.

But I do see what you are saying.

[xcusememisswyn]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

Again, since it was made on the same platform as two cars sold here in America,a nd not on a platform that needed to be modified to meet American standards, the cost isn't as bad. Now, if it was made a platform of say the R34, then they would have to put much more money into making it meet American's standards.

But I do see what you are saying.

But thats just the platform, this isnt just a juiced up G/Z. The engine, the tuning, the body, the frame, the exhaust, the safety systems and so much more are all new. When Nissan developed all of this they had to have spent more money to make sure it meets the standards of any country the car may sell in. Theres probably very little benefits of using the G/Z platform when meeting these standards, because the platform itself doesnt meet standards, its what you put on and in the platform.

Its like the SR and KA, Nissan could have put in the extra time and money to make the SR legal in America, but instead they took the cheaper route and dropped the already legal and dumbed down KA in. In order to not have to just drop a VQ in the GT-R, they had to put in a lot more research to make sure it qualifies for both Japanese and American laws, as well as anywhere else that it will be sold.

Starting from the base up, building a universal car, the cost has to be quite a bit more than building a basic platform and making small changes and sacrifices from here to there.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

But thats just the platform, this isnt just a juiced up G/Z. The engine, the tuning, the body, the frame, the exhaust, the safety systems and so much more are all new. When Nissan developed all of this they had to have spent more money to make sure it meets the standards of any country the car may sell in. Theres probably very little benefits of using the G/Z platform when meeting these standards, because the platform itself doesnt meet standards, its what you put on and in the platform.

Its like the SR and KA, Nissan could have put in the extra time and money to make the SR legal in America, but instead they took the cheaper route and dropped the already legal and dumbed down KA in. In order to not have to just drop a VQ in the GT-R, they had to put in a lot more research to make sure it qualifies for both Japanese and American laws, as well as anywhere else that it will be sold.

Starting from the base up, building a universal car, the cost has to be quite a bit more than building a basic platform and making small changes and sacrifices from here to there.

I understand what you are saying. Of course it DID cost a lot of money to develop. But there WERE savings in doing it the way they did. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not implying they got a free GTR from building the G/Z. The costs offset each other I'm sure. Plus you have to remember Nissan is the KING of using parts from it's parts-bin.

[xcusememisswyn]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

I understand what you are saying. Of course it DID cost a lot of money to develop. But there WERE savings in doing it the way they did. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not implying they got a free GTR from building the G/Z. The costs offset each other I'm sure. Plus you have to remember Nissan is the KING of using parts from it's parts-bin.

I know what you mean, it saves money to Nissan, rather than building a monster for Japan, then another monster for the U.S. separately. But it doesnt save money compared to what Nissan usually does, which is build for Japan, then dumb down for the rest.

My basic point is that building a global car costs more. Both to Nissan and the consumer. It saves money compared to building two seperate cars (which would be stupid), but it doesn't save money compared to what Nissan normally does.

And while Nissan does pull from its own parts bin, almost everything here is new and revolutionary, both to Nissan and the entire automotive world. That means a lot of the cost goes into the research of all the new technology put into this car.

[0100]

I hope this isn't true. Quoted from another forum I am on. I think the US GTR allotment is 200/month which may make it hard to get at mrsp without a markup. I really hope not. Especially when z06 can be had close to invoice never mind mrsp.

Originally Posted by NobleGTO

There's lots of talk about how fast the GTR might run the 'Ring and how "inexpensive" the car is in relationship to a 911 etc... But this may not really matter to those of us who are interested in buying the GTR at the so called "inexpensive price".

Anyone paid attention to the "fine print" as far as how many GTR's are being made? Nissan says there are just 12 engineers who will build the GTR engine, bottlenecking production and resulting in a limit of about 2x Audi R8 production (1000/mo vs. 500 mo) for worldwide consumption. If the R8 is any indication (700 units/year for the U.S.), we could be looking at 1300-1500 GTR's a year for the U.S.

Also like the R8, Nissan will only supply GTR's to certain of its dealerships who step up to pay $50k (in the R8's case: ~$100k) to be outfitted to service the GTR.

So if a Nissan dealer has to pay $50k just to be able to sell the GTR, and they are only going to get a limited number of GTR's a year (the dealers I've spoken to think they'll get 2-3/year)... Where do you think that $50k is going to go to? According to one dealer I spoke with, right into the dealer mark-up over MSRP on the GTR, for the consumer to pay.

It's amazing how quick an $80k car can suddenly become a $100k car.

Once you're into 6-figures and 1-2 year waiting lists.. Suddenly a whole lot more cars become more interesting

If I'm missing something, please let me know!

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

I know what you mean, it saves money to Nissan, rather than building a monster for Japan, then another monster for the U.S. separately. But it doesnt save money compared to what Nissan usually does, which is build for Japan, then dumb down for the rest.

My basic point is that building a global car costs more. Both to Nissan and the consumer. It saves money compared to building two seperate cars (which would be stupid), but it doesn't save money compared to what Nissan normally does.

And while Nissan does pull from its own parts bin, almost everything here is new and revolutionary, both to Nissan and the entire automotive world. That means a lot of the cost goes into the research of all the new technology put into this car.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by 0100

I hope this isn't true. Quoted from another forum I am on. I think the US GTR allotment is 200/month which may make it hard to get at mrsp without a markup. I really hope not. Especially when z06 can be had close to invoice never mind mrsp.

You HAVE to expect some dealer mark-up in the beginning. It's inevitable. Unfortunate, but inevitable.

[exitspeed]

From Autoblog! Someone just asked about this.

If you haven't had the opportunity to check out the Japanese Grand Touring Car Championship (JGTC), or as it's now referred to, the Super GT series, you're missing out. Supras battle NSXs, Zs and Imprezas. Lamborghinis take on Ferraris, Porsches and GT-Rs.

There are two classes GT300, for vehicles producing 300 HP, and GT500 for vehicles that are making, you guessed it, 500 HP. Both groups attack the same course at the same time, which makes for some of the greatest wheel-to-wheel touring car action in the world. Back in December of 2004, GTLIVE convinced the organizers of the JGTC to head east for an exhibition run at California Speedway in order to gauge interest in the sport Stateside. It was one Hell of a show, but at the end of the day, the sanctioning body of the JGTC didn't feel it was worth the effort to come back the following year.

Follow the jump, for more on the V8-powerd NISMO 350Z, a pic of the engine and the full press release.

We're really disappointed, now that we know that NISMO, Nissan's motorsports arm and one of the dominant teams in the JGTC Super GT series, has equipped their Z33 (Fairlady Z/350Z) with a 4.5-liter V8. The old turbo'd 3.5-liter mill was nixed to gain an advantage over a field of competitors that have made significant improvements over the past three years (the NISMO team has set the bar, winning two championships in three years).

There isn't too much information about the car, as the team has to keep much of their data under wraps, but judging by the sinister look of the new Z, they've come a long way in both aerodynamic enhancements and weight reduction. Five of these worked over Zs will compete in this year's series (starting in just over a month) and will be campaigned by HASEMI Motor Sport, Team Impul and Kondo Racing, with the remaining two being used by the NISMO team itself. However, all the teams will benefit from factory backing.

PRESS RELEASE

February 9, 2007

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.
Nissan Motorsports International Co., LTD

Nissan challenges SUPER GT Championship with new V8 engined Z
- 2007 Global motorsport programs announced -

Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. and Nissan Motorsports International Co., LTD (hereafter NISMO)today announced their global motorsports activities for the 2007 season.

Nissan's factory Fairlady Zs (350Z) will now be powered by a stronger 4.5 L V8 engine aiming at victory in this years SUPER GT championship in Japan. Complimented by changes to the chassis and other key components, the competitiveness of the machines that won championships twice in the past three years has now been significantly improved.

The main focus of the factory-backed team this year will be their entry in the GT 500 Class of the SUPER GT Series, the premium racing championship in Japan. Further, support of national and international privateer teams will be provided as Nissan maintains its longstanding commitment to grassroots racing activities.

1. SUPER GT

Entry in SUPER GT with the Z33 type Fairlady Z. Continuing from last year, Mr. Kunihiko Kakimoto will lead as General Manager of all the Nissan teams, while Mr. Yoshitaka Iijima continues as Team Manager of NISMO.

NISMO will technically support and develop cars for teams entering SUPER GT with the Fairlady Z. A total of five Fairlady Zs from HASEMI MOTOR SPORT, TEAM IMPUL and KONDO RACING as well as NISMO will enter the GT 500 class.

The 2007 model Fairlady Z has been developed with a focus on the following areas:

1. Countermeasures to regulations changes (recovery of lower downforce and higher center of gravity)
2. Taking maximum advantage of the normally-aspirated V8 engine

A) Reduction of drag
B) Improvement of body stiffness
C) Weight-reduction

Teams
Car# Entrant Manager Driver Car Name
22 NISMO Yoshitaka Iijima Michael Krumm / Tsugio Matsuda MOTUL AUTECH Z
23 Satoshi Motoyama / Richard Lyons XANAVI NISMO Z
3 HASEMI MOTOR SPORT Masahiro Hasemi Sebastien Philippe / Masataka Yanagida YellowHat YMS Moba HO! TOMICA Z
12 TEAM IMPUL Kazuyoshi Hoshino Benoit Treluyer / Kazuki Hoshino CALSONIC IMPUL Z
24 KONDO RACING Masahiko Kondo Joao Paulo de Oliveira / Seiji Ara TBA

2. Privateer Support

A variety of motorsport programs will be supported by Nissan, allowing our customers to get the most out of their racing investments.

1) March Cup Race /Nissan Racing School:

Although set as an "entry class" category, the March Cup Race allows entrants to enjoy a real racing experience. Using the on-board data-logger lets entrants improve their driving skills while experiencing the excitement of driving a real racing car. A dedicated 'Racing School' using the March Cup cars will be held at each circuit prior to every race, and will feature instruction on proper racing etiquette and maintenance of the car. There will be one additional class added to the Racing School this season in order to provide the authentic environment for anyone who has never before driven a race car, giving them the opportunity to join the series. A GPS system which automatically records the driving patterns will be mounted on the rental cars of the Racing School, giving better guidance for the drivers.

2) Support to Privateers in National Series:

[SUPER GT GT300 class] :
Technical support will be provided to privateer teams. This year, three Fairlady Zs from two teams plan to make an entry to the series.

[Super Taikyu Series] :
Technical support will be provided to privateer teams. Endless Sports plans to have one car entered, and C-WEST will enter one Fairlady Z Version NISMO Type 380 RS-Competition in ST class 1. Furthermore, six Fairlady Z cars are planned for ST class 3.

[Formula Challenge Japan (FCJ) ] :
Formula Challenge Japan started last year with its objective of raising young Japanese drivers to become capable of making outstanding performances internationally. Nissan has taken part in promoting this category since its inaugural season. Also, an engine maintenance service will be provided by NISMO under the integrated management of the promoter. One Nissan Scholarship driver from last season will be promoted to the Formula Renault Series in Europe. This year, four drivers have been selected already as Nissan Scholarship drivers and will be provided support by the company.

3) Major Overseas Activities:

[China] :
China Circuit Championship (CCC) is the most popular motorsports category in China where Chinese drivers compete with touring cars which are developed off locally-built vehicle platforms. Last year, Nissan Tiida won the Championship in its debut year. Continuing from last season, entry to the CCC Touring Car 1600cc class will be made through the Dongfeng Nissan with the Chinese top team, Ghia Sports Team. Staying with the proven Tiida, the team aims to capture consecutive championship titles.

[USA] :
Nissan North America will support teams that enter Championship Off-Road Racing (CORR) with the Nissan Titan in the Pro 2 class and Nissan Frontier in the Pro Lite class. The aim is for another double championship title.

[South Africa] :
Nissan South Africa will make its entry in the South African Off-Road Championship with the Nissan Navara, in pursuit of its 7th consecutive Driver's Championship title. It will also enter the South Africa Production Car Championship Race Series with the 350Z after its victory in the championship last season.

[0100]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

You HAVE to expect some dealer mark-up in the beginning. It's inevitable. Unfortunate, but inevitable.

Yeah, I just hope the stealerships don't go insane. I wish you could just buy cars direct from the manufacturer, dealers are useless in everyway. It's not like they are even going to allow test drives on the GTR. They should do it like a lot of the race car manufacturers do it. You fly out to there test track and test drive their "mule car". Order it and have it shipped to you.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by 0100

Yeah, I just hope the stealerships don't go insane. I wish you could just buy cars direct from the manufacturer, dealers are useless in everyway. It's not like they are even going to allow test drives on the GTR. They should do it like a lot of the race car manufacturers do it. You fly out to there test track and test drive their "mule car". Order it and have it shipped to you.

Dealerships are a cancer to the Auto industry. I read a good article once about how to do away with them.

[0100]

^YES YES I know the exact article.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by 0100

^YES YES I know the exact article.

Good read, huh.

[0100]

Hell yes. If I had time I would find it because everyone on here should read it. Sorry guys lazy but just do a google search.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by 0100

Hell yes. If I had time I would find it because everyone on here should read it. Sorry guys lazy but just do a google search.

Yea, I'm not gonna try finding it either. Shit was like a year ago. I think.

[02BRB20]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

No it would be higher, because making it qualify for every country's safety and emissions laws while still making that power would involve a lot of research and technology.

you are missing the big point though.

$ made selling GTRs internationally > $ made selling it only in japan

Nissan takes will initially invest more bc it pays off wayyyyyyy more at the end, esp at the price the GTR is selling for, more units @ lower price= $$$$$$$

[xcusememisswyn]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

bunch of autoblog stuff

Cliffnotes please? Im not readin all that haha

Originally Posted by exitspeed

You HAVE to expect some dealer mark-up in the beginning. It's inevitable. Unfortunate, but inevitable.

Its gonna be marked up at the beginning, because somebody is gonna pay the marked up price. If no one pays it, then they will drop the price, but odds are it will sell where ever they put it.

It sucks, ya, but its good business as well.

Originally Posted by 02BRB20

you are missing the big point though.

$ made selling GTRs internationally > $ made selling it only in japan

Nissan takes will initially invest more bc it pays off wayyyyyyy more at the end, esp at the price the GTR is selling for, more units @ lower price= $$$$$$$

Except your wrong. If it was an economy car, yes, but this is far from an economy car.

They pay more to develop the car that way, which means EVERYONE from EVERYWHERE pays more for the car. More production costs = more cost to the consumer. Simple economics. They dont sell their cars at such a high profit that they can afford to pay millions more in research and development, and still make money selling only a few thousand a year without raising the cost.

They arent producing enough of them that they could get away with not raising the price to match the cost of the research. You say if it was going to sell in high numbers, they would eventually overcome their production costs, but its not, so they wont.

But I really think its a halo car for Nissan anyway, they probably wont make any money off of its direct sales, but it will add to Nissan's reputation and increase sales elsewhere, as well as make money through racing. Kind of like the Viper does for Dodge.

But even then, its a circle, because unless we go ask Nissan ourselves, we cant really know.

[02BRB20]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

They arent producing enough of them that they could get away with not raising the price to match the cost of the research. You say if it was going to sell in high numbers, they would eventually overcome their production costs, but its not, so they wont.

producing enough yet. No one creates a car to lose money (save VW w/ the veyron). Nissan knows that the GTR can only be sold at this price range, bc no one wants to buy a $100K+ Nissan; not enough units would be sold and they would lose alot of money.

You take a supercar and make it super affordable and a budget buster and this should equal sells. Low price @ high volume = $$$$$$.

This is why Nissan spends alot of money initially to make it available to the whole world, bc they plan to overcome this debt by moving lots of units at a very very affordable price.

According to C&D Nissan plans to sell 1000 per month:
1000x 80,000 = $80,000,000 est.

12 months a year...GTR should be around for a couple of years...factor in the aftermarket and Nismo...

yea, Nissan made this car to make profit.

[xcusememisswyn]

Do you know what it costs to build a GTR? Could very well be $79,000, could be $85,000, (plus millions and millions of dollars in research) there are cars that companies dont really make profits on, but are still produced for other reasons. Like I said, I think that this is one of those cars. And honestly, unless your name is Carlos Ghosn, then you dont know what Nissans purpose is anymore than me.

Its called a halo car. The company doesnt expect it to sell well, but it shows what Nissan can do. Its an engineering masterpiece that draws people into the showroom with hope that they will buy a less expensive, more reasonable car while there. I think Nissan did what they have with this car, and made it globally the same, because they wanted their new halo car to be the most badass thing to roam the streets of both Japan and the Americas. Same as the Viper, the Ford GT, the Z06, etc. Google it if you dont believe me.

And if they plan to make 12,000 cars a year, it should be interesting to see how they sell considering Chevy only makes around 6,000 Z06's a year, and too make twice that while charging more, and lacking a reputation as of right now. Just doesnt add up. No 40 year old man making high six figures wants to pull up to the country club in a Nissan, even if it is this one.

[SimpleS14]

I think it would take quite awhile (maybe 4 years) before Nissan turns a profit on this car.....but of course this is just my opinion and speculation.

I know its off-topic....but I'm giddity to see what's in store for the next Z.

[xcusememisswyn]

Dodge factories break even in production costs if they produce 12 Vipers per day, they average 11.

GM in 2006 lost $146 dollars per vehicle it sold in the U.S., Toyota averaged the most per-vehicle profit in the U.S. with a little under $2K. Nissan averaged the most per-vehicle-profit nationwide with about $2100. Selling a single car does not turn huge profits, thats why they need to produce high numbers, 12,000 is not high volume, nowhere near it, especially compared to the millions of cars that Nissan and Toyota sell in the average year.

There is no way that selling only a 1000 a month, Nissan expects huge profits from this car, if any. Even if they invoice it at double the average, say $4000, it would still take years to cover the cost of research and advertising that went into the car alone.

Edit: To put it in perspective, that 12000 cars would represent about 0.0013% of Nissan's production output, not even one percent. If they made $30,000 per vehicle, it would still only represent about 2 percent of their overall profits. The GT-R will not put even a speed bump in Nissans quarterly reports graphs. They ARE NOT producing this car to make profits off its sale.

[02BRB20]

Originally Posted by xcusememisswyn

And if they plan to make 12,000 cars a year, it should be interesting to see how they sell considering Chevy only makes around 6,000 Z06's a year, and too make twice that while charging more, and lacking a reputation as of right now. Just doesnt add up. No 40 year old man making high six figures wants to pull up to the country club in a Nissan, even if it is this one.

I dont know so im asking, but can you even buy a ZO6 in Japan? or Europe? Thats sort of an advantage to the GTR if you cant.

I could imagine so many lil rich shit 20 year olds eating this up; $10 says Nick Hogan gets one, hahaha.

xcusemems. you're right though about the other stuff. I can completely see this car boosting other nissan car sales.

What im really anxious to see though is the horizontal integration of the GTR. Racecars, aftermarket, how it will live up to the iconic status.

Top Secret GTR, ahhhhh

[wootwoot]

What I was trying to get it at personally is the more you make of something the less it costs to produce each whatever. It gets cheaper to manufacture as you go no matter what which isnt necessarily a good thing.

[SimpleS14]

A hotter version of the GT-R coming in 2010....

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=123174

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by SimpleS14

A hotter version of the GT-R coming in 2010....

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=123174

About damn time the USA is included and on par with the GT-R. That thing should be a beast.

[Unholy S14]

you guys are welcome

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/video.php?illustration=259