Quote:
Originally Posted by SexPanda
Your reading it wrong. Let me break it down for you so that you can see what my mind was thinking when I put that down in text.
Nissan's forte is making family/practical cars these days, if not since its beginning. They now have the GT-R and Z car (including the infiniti). Besides that, they have the altima, maxima, sentra, versa, cube, etc. Their main marketing is oriented towards families and practicality... The Infiniti line up is quite a bit sportier, but its still more or less a family car with a little of that racing DNA.
Unlike porsche, who almost exclusively makes sports cars marketed at a certain demographic.
Yeah, Nissan may have a fantastic, storied history of racing, and yeah they may have been groundbreaking with many of the technolgies they implimented and came out with, but their main market has always been the average joe with a wife and 2 kids, because thats what makes money. And because they make good money off of the family cars they can have the fun little side projects like the Pulsar GTI-R and Atessa SSS, oriented to those wanting a little more zip. But those cars all usually stem from a practical daily driver type car. (their Neon SRT-4s or Cobalt SS's)
Porsche is overrated, everyone knows that. Its a status symbol, but they like to think of themselves as a race car company. They make be quick and handle decent (imo from the ones I've been in) but theres better for less. Porsche is synonymous with elitism. And elitists either have it their way or their way.
Im not insulting the Japanese. I was applauding them for the way they eloquently told porsche to fuck off. They said porsche's driver clearly wasnt a good one, and that they would help the driver become better acquainted with the GR-R. Thats a huge insult to an elitist porsche.
Dont insult my knowledge on either Porsche's or Nissan's racing petigrees. It may not be extensive, but im not ignorant.
And yes, perhaps that wasn't the greatest analogy. What I was saying is that an elitist Porsche was told that they needed to learn how to drive by a company percieved by the majority of the general public as a family car kind of company. When people hear Porsche they think sports car. When people hear nissan, they think of the Maxima. Simple name association.
In summation... Porsche said Nissan lied. Nissan eloquently told Porsche to fuck themselves. Porsche is buttsore because a Porsche got raped by a Nissan.
Hope that cleared it up. Not trying to show you up, not trying to back up porsche, but Its porsche... Theyre supposed to be top dog for upper middle class americans, not a company that makes reasonably priced sedans.
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Well as much as you think I misuderstood what you were saying I didn't. Let me break it down for you.
You stated that you felt Nissan was a family car company. Now that is typical American looking through only American glasses at the world. Fact is Nissan has a long history of building and selling sports cars. Perhaps Porsche has around 10 years on them because even though both companies existed before WWII neither made anything worth talking about. Both Companies came out of WWII starting fresh. Porsche was Volkswagen! He designed and his company built it for Hitler. It was the all peoples car. The Speedster aka C which James Dean died in and pretty much put Porsche on the map of sports cars and sports car racing came about in 1952.
In 1962 Nissan released the CS310(the first Datsun Roadster) the first Nissan sports car. All through the 1960's Nissan sold Roadsters. The 1600 and the 2000. They sold enough of them in the U.S. for Nissan to establish itself as a viable sports car company. In fact people were racing them all throughout SCCA and IMSA i.e. Not passenger car.
Of course in 1968 they brought out the Bluebird aka Datsun 510 with IRS. Now while the car was marketed as a econobox family car truth be told it was a direct salvo at the BMW 1600-2002. It was a hit worldwide. Japanese used them as taxicabs and police cars. They raced them in Pro Rally, they dominated in Road racing here in the U.S. in the early 70's sweeping the under 2.5 liter Trams Am championship Title 3 years running beating both the BMW2002 and the Alfa Romeo GTV.
At the same time Nissan delivered a one two punch world wide with the GC10 Skyline GTR coming out in 1969 and the Fairlady S30 240Z. Both of which again where IRS cars.
The Z would go one to win both Trans Am and IMSA titles and championships all through the 1970's. In fact it was a runaway hit and groundbreaking Sports car in the U.S. and the world. It cost 4k new and outperformed sports cars costing 10k at the time. It cemented Datsuns racing position in the U.S. on the heels of the Fairlady 2000 roadtser and put Datsun on the map in the U.S. in a major way. Which made people recognized them as a Sports car company.
The Z heritage and marketing would climb upwards all through the 70's,80's straight into the 90's the sales figures would only falter in the 90's because of overpricing.
Even though America bought the 510 as a family car it was a Sports Sedan and anyone with brains knew that. If you want to say it wasn't then you have to say the same about BMW, but you probably won't. Why because the Germans have hammered their point of BMW being a Sports car company into peoples heads a little harder than Nissan has.
Nissan established itself as Japans premier sports car company. So much so that Mazda felt the need to enter the fray and built the 1st gen RX7 which was a live axle rear end sports car. One I was never really impressed with. Though it would lay the groundwork for Mazda to market themselves as a sports car company because they saw the success Nissan had with Datsun and the Skylines.
Now America's real misconception with Nissan really started in the early 80's when someone in management thought it would be better to market the actual companies name. Rather than sticking with the tried and true brand name Datsun which had a very sporting image in the U.S. . Z cars sold in huge numbers in every single reiteration that Nissan managed to toss at the public. Not a family a Sports car. They killed the 510, they killed the 610, they killed the 710. They kept the 810( The Maxima) but changed it from a six cylinder rwd platform to a FWD platform. They tried to resurect the 510 but brought it out as a solid axle rear car and it failed miserably. The public knew they were not getting the IRS.
The name changed confused the American buying public and Nissan's image in the U.S. I should add the Silvia was already sold on U.S. shores from the late 70's forward as the 200Sx. In the early 80's they would bring out the next generation of it S110 with IRS again. They would offer it turbocharged(CA18ET) and with a V6(VG30) option. Not exactly a family car thing.
In the late 80's Nissan choose to bring out newer versions of these sports cars. The Gazelle and Silvia became the 180sx and Silvia. In the U.S. the 240sx(s13) which in the first two years was actually marketed by Nissan as a entry level sports car but only aimed towards secretaries in 91-93 models and S14's.
Nissan also brought out the Z32 300zx which actually while some people called it a Sports GT was still a Sports car. Meanwhile in the rest of the World your correct they had R32 Skyline they also had the Pulsar GTir and the AWD Bluebird. Hmmm sounds like a sports car company to me. In other words just because they managed to market and sell family cars. Its rather Ironic if I were to follow your assumptions that they were a family car company. Why? They market the Maxima as a Sports sedan. Its in their commercials.
All the Infiniti's they sold and sell that are rwd use the same IRS rear multi link design they pioneered in the R32 and Z32 and S13. Now why would a family car company bother sticking a sophisticated IRS setup in plain old family cars? Toyota does not do that. They put solid axle rear ends in all their cars for years leading right into the 90's. They only stuck IRS in a few of their cars. They do it more now but still not to the level Nissan does. Why? Nissan markets itself and sells its self as a Sports car company right along the same lines BMW does.
Nissan has been tossing bombs at both BMW and Porsche since the 70's. As you would see above by what I wrote. Do I feel you insulted me or challenged my knowledge? No. I just feel you do not have the full story. If you choose to feel that means I think your ignorant well that's on you.
Fact is we both agree on the point of what Nissan said to Porsche but your first statement did not allude to that. In fact you were incredulous that Nissan would do that,especially because you thought you knew what Nissan was really about as a car company. All I did was call that and know I have schooled you. Its not so much that we did not agree it was your statement that a family car company would do that to Porsche was awesome. All I did was say excuse Nissan is just nor has it ever been a Family car company. I guess you felt you knew the history of the company well enough. I guess you didn't, above is the info to help you better understand my position based on my living through that whole time and seeing and learning it firsthand.
Oh and if you feel your knowledge was insulted again that's on you. Not me. I only called and have given you the reasons why.
Schools out.