This thread seemed to turn away from the original topic of SB1070 and now just a general immigration discussion. I will now post MY POV in replies to post after my first post.
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Originally Posted by Matej
The whole immigration process in the US is pretty silly.
Educated people from first and second world countries do not move here anymore because they have better opportunities in their home countries. Even if they wanted to move here, they would have to jump through so many bureaucratic hoops that is is nowhere near worth it to them. And coming here illegally is definitely not worth it to them at all, that is not even an option. So they stay living happily in their home countries. America is not luring in engineers, scientists, and other great minds from all over the world as it once used to.
Yet 'refugees' seem to be welcomed with open arms. Pretty much all it takes to be let into the US is to be from some country that Americans assume evil/poor/crappy, and to make up some story about how your native government is tyrannical or whatever, and make sure to make it sound a lot worse than it really is. Middle Easterners are pouring in. Indians are coming. And America loves to turn a blind eye to illegal immigrants. Thanks to sophisticated networks and connections, most illegal immigrants have it easier here than legal immigrants, easier even than many regular citizens. Plus the government itself seems to be lending a helping hand.
And the entire US citizenship process is a joke. Especially compared to other countries. I do not even want to get into that.
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Yes the process is silly, expensive, a joke, and mostly impossible if you don't know what your doing. So you hire a broker who takes half your money. Not fair but will get you citizenship EVENTUALLY. Which is what we want, right? Legals and not illegals.
Why else would they come for if not for opportunities? Most are not here to commit crimes, they are here to work their asses off and support their families here or in their home country.
Refugees are a different story, and must actually meet certain requirements before they are accepted as a refugee. Middle Eastern' and Indians aren't coming by way of refuge, but of normal legal or illegal immigration. Yes illegals are other races besides mexican. The U.S. is too busy to worry about immigration when they have bigger issues such as the economy, where illegals are trying to help. And no illegals don't have it easier. Most lived paranoid trying to stay away from trouble and wondering if their job will get raided by the BP.
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Originally Posted by theicecreamdan
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Thats just wrong. Its like saying it's wrong to learn about a different culture where the students taking the classes are Mexican that have been white-washed and trying to grow back to their roots. Kids in Mexico enjoy and love to take english/US History classes why does the US deny that kids here. Its an elective you choose to take it and should have be conscious of the course material, if taking in Junior or Senior High.
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Originally Posted by ronmcdon
That's another can worms.
They are talking about cancelling ethnic studies classes.
(Chicano studies specifically?)
I won't disagree with AZ policy there specifically.
I'm skeptical any Liberal Arts classes have any practical value whatsoever.
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They do have value, to learn about the history of a culture weather it be asian, mexican european. If this were to be fair it should end classes of Euro history since they too controlled US soil once. But its not practical to take away them because they were white. Thats not fair.
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Originally Posted by Brian
I think they decided to only mention Chicano classes to add more fuel to the fire. (***LA Times, by the way, see me following thought down below.)
I don't necessarily agree with that new decision, but I kind of see why they did it... sort of. We're supposed to be moving away from racism... but I feel like this country is making racism more popular quite frankly.
Anyways, what is the shit about Los Angeles not doing any business with Arizona? Boycotting Arizona businss? I really hate a lot of people right now for being so stupid. It's unreal.
I am truly amazed at how much shit there is right now to SUPPORT illegal immigrants.
It's like upside down world right now. WTF???
Do people even think at all anymore? It's no wonder the rest of the world is laughing their asses off at the USA right now.
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It does feel like we are moving toward racism and its not right. Its happening in San Diego as well. It's not dumb it's called winning votes. Population in these cities in Hispanic, you do something that they support and you win votes. They're against something thats wrong in the first place so stand up to get what's right. Like when the SUNS used the "Los Suns" Shirts they showed support but now for boycotting they hardly sold tickets because people are afraid to leave and that must be fixed. People are just trying to do the right thing, their not supporting illegal immigration but demanding for the system to be fixed.
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Originally Posted by revat619
^^^^
EXACTLY.
This country is so retarded sometimes. The bottom line is, as a legal and tax paying citizen, i shouldn't have to pay for an illegal's shit. PERIOD. No matter how "deserving" they feel they are.
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Most illegals don't receive any benefits, and most also pay taxes, making them tax payers. They don't feel deserving they are equal and demand equality to a certain point and full equality if they are legal.
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Originally Posted by ronmcdon
Why do you think the US is making racism more popular?
About the forementioned classes
My co-worker, who is 3rd gen Mexican, actually took a Chicano studies class recently @ the local city college.
Most of the stuff they taught was more or less was just bashing the US.
It was just really one sided, bias arguments.
It was all criticism and pretty much no praise.
Garbage arguments like they stole from the Mexican government and did terrible things.
No doubt the US did a lot of wrong, but what nation's government did not?
I don't see any value in a class like that.
It just encourages resentment, imo.
My co-worker is kinda pissed that he feels the curriculum is fostering such hostility & being so ungrateful.
I would have to agree, esp given how kids can be so impressionable.
It probably is just an isolated incident.
However, I can appreciate what AZ is trying to do, if they're having the same situation.
Even if you're interested in rediscovering your cultural identity,
I don't see how you need to take a formal college class for that.
Seems like a waste of funding to me (in a time where it's arguably scarce).
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I don't know what college but chicano studies usually means culture, mexican history would be the war with the US and the loss of land because of Santa Ana and his greedy personality. And yes all governments have done something wrong but the new law is worse then wrong.
Its called being informed and mature about the topic. Take it how you like it but most are just stated facts of what happened. Books are usually written by white people or white-washed mexicans and are show bias to america. Books in mexico are worse towards Santa Ana since he is the one that messed up. Where else can you learn? College is usually accredited by an organization that approves their curriculum what better source to learn from?
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Originally Posted by ronmcdon
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact there is racial profiling going on.
The bill, or so I get the impression, is targeting Hispanics.
Also, maybe a lot of ppl have relatives/friends who they want to bring over illegally.
As far as I know, a lot of coyotes go through AZ.
Maybe going through other states makes it more dangerous and/or expensive.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just contemplating the practical concerns.
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It is, and thats the wrong part, it should target general illegals not hispanics. Coyotes go through anywhere they can with no guarantees. The best way is to pay off an agent in a booth like they did in San Ysidro a couple of weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by Gnnr
That's it right there. The bottom line. That's why I think the US is going to find a "path to citizenship" solution. 10+ million illegal immigrants. Cost of deporting all of them vs. profit from taxing them. Just my late night conspiracy theory though...
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except most already pay taxes. and the way things are going not much is going to get done with current political leaders.
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Originally Posted by Brian
Well, I don't know but I feel like I see so much these days about race. I thought we were supposed to become more raceless. I feel like more than ever, things are created BASED on race. Channels ,award shows, clothing companies, etc.
I just feel like we're going backwards in some ways.
That's sort of off topic I guess.
Anyways, I want to see The United States of America. I want United States citizens. I want people to be here because they should be. I want them to work and pay taxes (well, it would ben ice not to, lol). Let's be Americans!
I don't want to see "The States of America...somewhat".
This is America. We should make the rules. I'm tired of other people making the rules. It's bullshit.
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It's called stereotypes. People get mad when mentioned but most likely fill them. It's life get use to it, thats on the people not the government and will most likely not change.
People are here because they see opportunities to live better. If you want to get rid of people their are some undeserving legals as well. And americans make the rules that others don't like.
its late I'm tired ill add more later. They're is just so many things wrong in this thread most people have no clue. read my first post as i think its more informational as to why. I'm just trying to fix the people that have no clue what they're saying.