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Originally Posted by Kingtal0n
the data-logit offer barely any advantage for maf tuning the power FC. The only thing you "get" is slightly more access, and a logging ability [SNIP]
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Those two reasons are exactly why I consider it a necessity. The OP mentioned having $5k to spend. If my experience is to be regarded, I think he'll find that $5k is doable, but once you start weighing the pros and cons of additional items you find that there are other parts that will increase the reliability and safety of running an engine at twice it's rated stock output. These quickly add up. I am currently sitting somewhere around $10k in the motor with an estimated $3k left before I have it buttoned up. Given that I have that many Obama funny money bucks tied up in this project I want to have the ability to see and track every parameter the ECU sees to determine engine health at any given time. The Hand Commander is useful, but logging ability is akin to gold in my book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n
Remember these are sub 500whp tunes for pump gas vehicles, using a maf sensor, and once tuned no longer have the laptop or data-logit plugged in (you only use it to tune the car once, which can be done identically with a hand-commander.)
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Even if you have a great tuner, I still think having the ability to see and track your engine parameters is paramount to the longevity of the engine. I will be utilizing The Boost Creep in Denver for my professional tuning as he has experience with Link ECUs, and I have it on good authority that he knows his shit. Regardless, I will be tracking my engine parameters and looking for areas in which improvements are possible, or areas where the engine is pushing safety thresholds in an attempt to safeguard against premature engine failure and performance deficiencies. I am not about to rely on a tune completed in a few hours or more without being able to steer the boat myself if needed. I will not let my tuner lock the tune, and I'll sign any paper stating he is not liable if I make changes and fuck things up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n
In other words, nobody likes using the hand commander. I don't need to use it because I have the data-logit. But there is no real reason why I couldn't use the hand-commander if I had to, in a pinch, or if the data-logit broke, there would be no difference in the final tune or the way you drive afterwards.
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As I stated, the Hand Commander
could be used, but it is much less than ideal. Any competent tuner, such as yourself, would much prefer to have the capabilities of the DL in the mix, MAF or otherwise. If you didn't, you would not have a DL at your disposal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingtal0n
#2 if ebay doesn't have any used PFC for your engine, you have the wrong engine for such an easy, cheap used tuning option. The chance of finding a used PFC for different engines will obviously vary. Try to plan before you buy the engine, make a list of all the parts and their availability, and anything in this category (used, ebay parts) try to buy well in advance if possible. Either that or be prepared to pay the price. RB engines are prestigious, excessively extravagant, and are only used when the owner desires the RB name tag over displacement and power output from other, lesser cost options. In other words, the minute you say RB anything, you will generally expect to pay double for parts and accessories for something like 30 to 50% less power output given a similar investment as other, more common engine swap options with 6 or 8 cylinders.
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I am not about to get into the "you should put a JZ in it", or "just go LS" argument. The fact is, some of us prefer to keep a Nissan a Nissan. I cost out a 1JZ with R154 tranny, bolt-on and ancillaries, and determined that the RB25 swap would run me almost identical amounts of hard earned cash. The 2JZ with R154 was more expensive, because 2JZ yo. A 2JZ would run about what an RB26 with RB25 tranny would and I personally would choose an RB26 over a 2JZ just to keep it in the Nissan family. An LS swap just feels dirty to me, like 2 dollar hooker dirty. She'll do the job and performance may be admirable, but you still don't wanna look yourself in the mirror afterwards...
Anything non RB specific runs the same amount as other forced induction motors, and various other RB specific items can be cross referenced to other domestic Nissan motors to keep costs down. RB items that cannot be cross referenced aren't nearly as expensive now as they were 10 years ago given the increased popularity of the swaps in the states.
30-50% less power output given the investment?!!! Really? I call bullshit on that one... you're pulling numbers out of your ass.
I for one would never let the availability of a used Power FC drive my selection of a motor. That seems like a backwards way of going about it. Besides that, I generally do not buy used electronics when their function is key in keeping an expensive project from being relegated to the recycling bin. Kind of why I would never buy a used power supply for a high end computer. If it fails or is buggy it can take the entire project down in the process. You obviously feel different, which is fine, but I wouldn't let $500 be the difference between $10k of super sweetness or $10k of scrap metal. You do not know the condition of the components when buying second hand. It could have been dropped several times, or subjected to extreme static shock, or any number of other not so good situations.