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Originally Posted by impactred
OptionZero, I really don't see how you can be using this as an arguement to not badge the GTR as a Nissan. The market buying trucks in that class in the US are much more dyed-in-the-wool american brand loyal customers than the sports car market. Of course there are going to be more good-ol' boys buying fords and chevys than Nissans. Does this mean that everyone wants an american brand truck? of course not! Do people still buy the Titan and Armada? Yes. Just because a vehicle isn't a sales leader in it's class doesn't mean that it can't meet sales goals set by the manufacturer.
Mitsubishi and Subaru have proven that a healthy enthusiest market exists in the US. When the Evo came to the US there were naysayers ridiculing the fact that anyone would pay $30k for a Mitsubishi Lancer. This is amusing now, because according to the automotive press, the Evo is the only car that Mitsubishi is able to sell everyone it makes. You may be underestimating the market for the GTR. The Evo had relatively the same exposure to the market as the GTR has, which is to say exposure through videogames, videos, and magazines. Even without a dedicated marketing campaign, the Evo has managed to do very well. The same buyers who have purchased Evos and STi's have now come farther along in their careers, and most will probably have more disposable income to spend on the GTR. This healthy market should be large enough to support the GTR on it's own, without Nissan having to rely mostly on "image" sales, where people are buying the car to just look good (Percentage of automatic Corvettes sold, people?)
Infiniti relys more on an image/luxury market, and the GTR would be ill-suited to exist mainly as an image car, which it would have to partially become, simply for the fact that the edginess of it's performance would be comprimised to fit into the image that Infiniti would want a luxury sports car in their line to posess.
You have to realize that the playstation market/fanboys aren't going to be kids their whole lives, and that this market includes people well into their thirties at this point.
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Titan/Armada sales were brought up as an argument supporting Dfreaq's assertion that people will buy a 40-50k Nissan-badged vehicle.
The Titan and Armada haven't grabbed huge market share, and aren't market leaders at all.
What were nissan's sales targets for those trucks? Anyone got a link to that?
The GT-R's performance target is the Porsche 911, it's target market will be the 60-80k sports car (not sports tourer) market. It's competitors will be the Z06, 911 Carrera/Cayman, possibly the 6-series/M6, and a few m3 stragglers
In that market image DOES matter, as does branding, dealership experience, and perceived value. The people that buy 60-90 are not the same people that buy Evo's and STi.s
What is Mitsubishi's lineup outside of the EVO? NOTHING. They are bankrupt and losing money. The Evolution is successfull in the United States DESPITE its badge, and SOLELY because of the Enthusiast market. Subaru's different, they have improved their image by building their reputation for safety and reliability, the STi benefits from this reputation as the "softer" alternative to the EVO, as wella s the good will from the Legacy/outback/Baja/etc.
Nissan's GT-R will not survive on just the Enthusiast market (the ones who place the biggest premium on the GTR name). There are enough enthusiasts these days who can buy a 30k car that the EVO and STi can exist- do you honestly think there are enough enthusiasts out there who can afford a 60-80k car? The playstation generation may have grown up, but they've grown up to be 20-30 yr olds with decent/good first jobs...and with those paychecks they buy S2000s, EVOs, STis, and 350Z's. They do not have the capacity to buy 60-80k sports cars (otherwise they would already have 911's...).
So there are two angles I see it:
-Car freaks who know about the GTR name and reputation and care about performance: can't afford 60-90k car yet, so making it a Nissan to attract them doesn't help
-Rich people who want a sports car for pride/midlife crisis: want image/halo aspect, want good dealer experience, can afford Porsche/BMW/Corvette, so you'd need the Infiniti brand to ensure the class of service they expect, the perceived value they want
Ideal "Nissan GTR" buyer:
Young enough to play GT1-2-3-4, watched Initial D, Best Motoring, Option, reads Super Street so knows the heritage and pride of name, has 60-80k disposable income.
Who fits that mold? A coupla guys who own enough Tap Ex franchises to make it? Maybe some tech industry wiz kids?
The STi/EVO do not sell because of their rep. They sell because they are performance bargains and have NO COMPETITION AT ALL. Subaru/Mitsubishi have effectively CREATED a market here: 4 dr AWD, performance car at 30k.
Until official specs/pricing come out,
no one can comment definitively, but to be a successful Nissan GT-R, nissan will have to: shed any concerns about interior quality/build reliability in their other cars and lineup, make the car BEAT the new 911 Carrera in performance, beat the Z06 in perceived build quality, and undercut the pricing on both. that's an uphill battle
Here's another aspect:
The maxima, altima, quest, sentra are all butt-ugly. Does Nissan want the GT-R on the same lot as those lumps of car? it hurts my eyes to drive by a Nissan dealership these days.
The G-series oozes sex. I'd prefer to shop at a dealership that has those parked outside.