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Old 08-23-2015, 03:16 PM   #32
Kingtal0n
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The the pinch and cosmetic visible frames are valuable attributes worthy of our attention.
If a 240sx has made it this far with minimum damage, it is rare to find.


Do not use these or anything similar,



Instead, use a soft pad,



These are some ruined pinch welds


If you try to fix it,


near mint pinch is cosmetically pleasing and difficult to reproduce,




Next we consider the frame rail


very good, typical wear, a little abused, damage






use a block of wood to raise the car,



Here is part of an article about checking the frame, from one of the ten thousands of websites that are available to help you learn how to learn about cars,



More information about checking the body in general:
Check the gaps


sometimes gaps are obvious

Use technology to measure the gaps,



clearcoat fading on OEM paint, this is a most desirable attribute to find


paint and window seals



The truly professional may have the car with engine out, and painted and put back together again in three to four days.
Find somebody like that when it comes time to paint your vehicle.




What was a brand new 1997 240sx worth? If Nissan suddenly decided to re-produce that exact same car today, it would likely be worth less now due to lack of technology implemented in the engine and drivetrain/chassis. There are some who would actually see this a benefit (less computer control, easier to work on) and indeed this is one of the aspects that makes a 240sx attractive to a novice wishing to learn the ropes of maintenance for "older" vehicles, I say this remembering how a 68' mustang and 67' camaro are to some who still think of those as "old" and our cars as being relatively "new" (as fuel infection became the "new" thing since 1983ish, the tables are turning now that our cars are 20+ years old), suffice to say that this does not add any value, as the prospect of buying a brand new vehicle is generally consumed with the idea that it will come with the latest and greatest technology, i.e. the best fuel economy, the best possible combination of parts for longevity (you would hope) and the newest lightest, strongest chassis components and geometries that reflect more generous computer modeling advancement, materials science and so forth. On the other hand, we all know that a new vehicle is rarely perfect, as brand new vehicles often contain many, sometimes hundreds, of factory flaws that appear over time, and again, the 240sx with respect to these "found flaws" or "mileage related flaws" takes the win for our novice, since he or she is most likely to have better success in repairing and performing maintenance to a vehicle with future problems that are already highly detailed in documentation, and easy to research, and for the most part also easy to repair. In other words, we already know the weak points of the 240sx engine and chassis (subframe bushings, door panels, front main seal, timing chain tension, cracked fuel tanks, etc...) so when buying one we are rarely surprised to find that it will need any of these items, which is to say that you would NOT have this knowledge if you were to buy a brand new vehicle, for the most part.

Another view is from a collectors perspective, and although I am hesitant to even mention this, I see it as a potential problem for the future novice who wishes to own a 240sx and I feel compelled to mention it here. Imagine then that a 97 240sx was kept in air-tight storage for all these years, with only 3 miles on the chassis. Imagine also that it was of course humidity controlled, and started up once in a while to circulate the engine oil and keep the rubber seals from drying out. For a practical minded buyer, this car will still be worth less than it was new, since time undoubtedly takes a toll on the rubber components of the vehicle, and again considering the fact that the car is essentially old technology which has been replaced by more economical features of newer vehicles today, make the vehicle worth less as a daily driver type vehicle to those practical thinkers. In the eyes of a collector, however, this type of vehicle would most likely be thought of as priceless, if due nothing more than to the fact of such limited production numbers. Once we consider the production numbers as an important statistic, and then consider the lives many of these cars have lived (drifting and motor sports and accidents) even the most non-collector type individual may start to wonder about the supply and demand aspect of such vehicles. A quick glance around the classifieds will further demonstrate that finding a 97 240sx in original condition, listed for blue-book type prices, is already nearly impossible, that is to say that there is definitely some influence in our minds as to how rare the chassis has become, and the idea is shared easily even to those who may know very little about the 240sx, and unfortunately has caused a significant rise in price (at least posted prices) for cars that do not deserve such attention. That is, the collector's view of increased value only applies to those very few extremely rare examples of 240sx which still maintain mostly original components, including paint and body. An added bonus is given to vehicles with exceptionally low mileage, since this adds years of actual service life from an engine which is known to be reliable. Any 240sx that has been painted is instantly disqualified from a value increase due to rarity/original parts, if only for the fact that body work can hide accidents (a skilled body professional might still be interested in such vehicles for racing or show purposes). Any 240sx whos engine has been swapped, even back to the same model, is also disqualified, since engine work can rarely be relied upon (where a skilled mechanically inclined professional may be interested in the chassis as a blank canvas). With these distinctions in mind, let us consider some examples to help get things right.

First I will define the two extremes of pricing for these cars.
On the practical side, there is "what I would be willing to pay for this". And on the high side, is "market price", that is to say, the price one would pay if he or she has no time to devote to finding the best deal, and simply buys the first one seen that meets the criterion. The market price is typically listed in the for sale ads, it is directly dictated (for the 240sx) by the idea that the vehicle is rare (often misguided as we will see).


Example 1:
1997 Nissan 240sx
original paint, automatic, clean chassis, no rust, clean carfax, 50,000 miles, garage kept (9.5/10 interior), 5-lug SE, runs great
What I would be willing to pay for this: $5500-$7000
market price: $10000-$12000
note: Here the value is with mileage and original paint, vehicle will have all vin tags and no accidents, perfectly aligned and never removed bumpers and headlights, all original foam padding and wiring clips intact, etc...

example 2:
1997 Nissan 240sx
automatic, clean chassis, no rust, clean carfax, 130,000 miles, garage kept (9.5/10 interior), 5-lug SE, runs great, FRESH PAINT
What I would be willing to pay for this: $4000-$5000
Market price: $8000-$9000
note: Here market price is artificially high due to the misguided idea that this car is rare. Although the mileage is reasonable, the fresh paint is more often than not hiding details. These cars often have other distinguishable, undesirable features (it is rare to find ONLY fresh paint when it is present. There is often some other important de-railing feature, such as a missing vin tag, or an aftermarket pair of headlights, or misalignment of bumpers, etc...) however if it turns out the paint/body was done professionally, and the cosmetic chassis features we discussed are intact, it could still be a worthy vehicle.


example 3:
1997 Nissan 240sx
automatic, clean carfax, 205,000 miles, garage kept (9/10 interior), 5-lug SE, runs great, FRESH PAINT, original engine
What I would be willing to pay for this: $3600-$4500
Market price: $5000-$6500
note: Here we see the sellers are mostly aware of the mileage as a distinguishable feature that lowers price, as an engine swap is coming soon.

average price 97/98 models is $4400 (automatic 97 factory)
average price 95/96 models is $2900 (automatic 95 factory)

Let us stop now and remember what is truly important on these cars, in my opinion it is what you hope for the most, but will live with what you are given anyways. It isn't the interior pieces, although they hold some value, they are easily replaced. It isn't the engine in the car, although some engines are worth more than others, they are also easily replaced. The real value of a 240sx is in its chassis, that part of the car that IS the car, that cannot be simply unbolted and replaced whenever one wishes to do so. Specifically, the underside, contains cosmetic features such as frame rails and pinch welds, but these are only a small part of a whole car which can be deformed. It is true that I have come to appreciate such small details as the alignment of the headlights, the gaps between the bumpers and fenders and hood, the foam padding around the wiring loop with it's factory placement and brittle clips. I have come to value many small details as the clean unscathed seam glues in the trunk, and on the floors, an original ECU bracket intact and doing it's job, an untouched steering column where wires and relays have not been crammed above the clutch pedal where you constantly rub them with feet. In short, there is much more to a 240sx being valued than simply one set of cosmetic features. I would rather own a car where the wiring has never been altered than perhaps anything else now that I think about it. This is because different folks have different ideas of what is acceptable when it comes to these details, and I prefer to be the first one to make such modifications if there are to be any. Again this re-calls the classic notion that "collectors" do not really exist for the 240sx; only those individuals who desire specific traits, which vary from example to example, and will pay for them given the opportunity to seize the proper model. That is to say, my idea of a perfect 240 is not your idea of one.

Last edited by Kingtal0n; 09-01-2015 at 12:28 PM..
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