Stock brake improvments (not going big brake kit)

[s13dan]

Well, i have done some research and was wanting some help decided what do do with my Master cylinder. I have seen a lot of different cars with upgraded brakes that dont help stop the car stop a whole hell of a lot faster than stock. Sport compact in particular(with the miata this month, and the Mr2 a few months ago.Best stoping power in the super car challenge and it had stock brakes.) Im wanting to improve my braking but im not goin to buy Z32 brakes any other big brake kit.Im not racing in long duration, I see a lot of big brake kits help in heat disapation more than anything. So im thinking drilled rotors maybe,Carbon based pads of some sort,SS lines, and i dont know what master cylinder to go with? any idea for stock size rotors? or am i wrong all together with my theory?any one can speak from experience? any comment plz...thanx

[SRprelude]

yes larger brakes not only dissapate heat better, but they do give better stopping power. Tires play a HUGE role as well. the money you might spend upgrading stock shit, you may as well get Z32. I got Z brakes 3 years ago, and theres no better/cheaper way to TRUELY upgrade your brakes.

upgrade stock:
if you buy SS lines, theres $120 at least
slotted rotors $100 (drilled I wouldnt recommend)
good pads $50
S13 (automaic trans) brake master cyl $75

theres Z brake territory already............

[s13dan]

i know tires and good pads would help more than anything right now, but is there no other cheap alternative, i dont want to speed 500+ dollars for brakes right now, but if needbe i will later on.

[boosteds13]

Originally Posted by s13dan

i know tires and good pads would help more than anything right now, but is there no other cheap alternative, i dont want to speed 500+ dollars for brakes right now, but if needbe i will later on.

Good rotors and pads make the biggest difference.

[pr240sx]

slotted rotors and high performance pads and tires.
You can have a expensive as hell brake system and shitty tires and you will brake WORSE than stock

[g6civcx]

I don't recommend slotted discs due to shorter lifespan. Just get a set of Brembo solid discs. Slotted discs can work but will tend to warp more quickly, especially when the slotting is done with a drill press and not during manufacturing.

I recommend Hawk pads. Get in touch with them and they will get you the right compound for your application.

Flush your brake fluid and install new pads and discs. Check for leaks while you're at it. It should help your braking dramatically.

[aznpoopy]

Originally Posted by SRprelude

yes larger brakes not only dissapate heat better, but they do give better stopping power.

they don't give you better stopping power. they give you more power to lock up your wheels.

if you can lock up your wheels with stock brakes, you aren't gaining anything except resistance to fade and less leg effort to lock.

listen to g6civic.

don't get slots. waste of cash. tires first... then blanks & good pads, and a thorough flush/bleed. you aren't going to experience brake fade on the street (unless you're driving like an idiot). if you are going racing on the track, buy some race pads with high temperature rating and swap em out for the event.

if you run a few events and find you are fading, then you should consider going with bigger brakes.

[s13dan]

Cool, ill do that, ill flush the system out real good, get some hawk pads, i think Jegs carries them now or ebay, i will most likey get a new MC from nissan mine is old and leaks just a scoush, chech for any other leaks, tires of course most likey ST115.Im not a crazy ass auto Xer that has a lot of cash so ill see how this does. Any suggestions on master cylinder? nissan brand for sure but is there a difference and auto v.s. 5 speed MC? or Z31?

[OptionZero]

auto s14 has bigger brake booster

not sure if you need a different master cylinder, just make sure yours is not leaking or anything

get Kumho Mx's; Azenis RT-615's, Hankook RS2- Z212 if you don't care that much about treadwear, you'll feel a difference immediately

paint your calipers too, that will cut 10 ft off your 60-0 distance

[neilsan]

I got axxis pads for my original rotors and did a fresh bleed with 240sxmotoring stainless lines... it was a night and day difference. felt like i had 2x the clamp force. Still can't quite threshhold the brakes, one side always locks up before the other for some reason... i think because I am using the original rotors and the pads havent worn away their initial stamp form yet so they grab the rusty edge of the rotor randomly. I like the axxis pads very much but I can feel them start to fade if I blast on the highway and have to do a few hard stops within half a minute of each other...

i want arizonaZcar front brakes an evo rear conversion

[g6civcx]

Originally Posted by aznpoopy

they don't give you better stopping power. they give you more power to lock up your wheels.

if you can lock up your wheels with stock brakes, you aren't gaining anything except resistance to fade and less leg effort to lock.

This isn't entirely true. How much braking force you can apply to each wheel depends on weight transfer and tyre. How quickly you can convert kinetic energy into heat determines braking distance.

Yes, stock brakes can provide adequate clamping force to lock the wheels, but larger brakes can absorb more heat because there is more mass, thus allowing you to stop more quickly. Plus being that they're bigger and get more ventilation, they can resist fading better.

But the point is that disc and pad compound matter more than size. If you have a poorly designed big brake kit you're going to be worse off than if you stuck with stock brakes and a good set of discs and pads.

[infinitexsound]

suck it up and buy a q45 setup if u dont wanna go z32... some ss lines and good pads and cheap rotors... best way for gettin rid of heat... is making a brake duct system using something similar to aero tubing.... but u dont need that on a daily driver.... u cant go wrong with good brakes..

[OptionZero]

oh yeah, run less camber...you'll have more straightline grip and therefore more braking ability

[s13dan]

Awesome, thanx guys, ill be getting some pads and tires asap. Ill be sure to look for leaks cuz my brake pedel feels spongy now, and i am used to it, i know my braking distance and can tell when they start to lock up pretty well, so any improvment would be fantastic.

[rps13dreams]

I am using axxis pads with brembo blanks. I dont recommend axxis. The axxis pads are very hard on the rotors. My rotors warped very fast and sometimes they sound like metal-metal, but I still have like 80% left. They do have an excellent initial bite, though. I think I will try hawks next. I recommend Kuhmo ASX tires. Great traction and so far, they are lasting.

[MovinUp-1]

Originally Posted by s13dan

Awesome, thanx guys, ill be getting some pads and tires asap. Ill be sure to look for leaks cuz my brake pedel feels spongy now, and i am used to it, i know my braking distance and can tell when they start to lock up pretty well, so any improvment would be fantastic.

IF your pedal is spongy you need to check for leaks, check the master cylinder, and completely drain and flush out the old brake fluid. Castrol GTLMA is a decent off the shelf brake fluid. Ford brake fluid from the dealership is very high quality at a decent price. Spend your money here first. Then get new pads and check your rotors. Slotted and drilled rotors do nothing for reduced stopping distance. Carbotech pads are very good. Check into them.

[s13dan]

cool, im doing a "tune up" on my car here pretty soon and ill make sure to do check for leaks and ill get some castrol fluid.

[wootwoot]

Also do a complete brake flush and switch to DOT 5.1 fluid with the highest boiling point you can find-in your price range. I'd stay away from carbon pads, organic are generally better for street use with their intial bite and lower operating temperatures. I definitely agree with all statements reguarding slotted/drilled. Just get blanks.
Does anyone know if there really is any difference in material quality between the Brembos and the Asian no name rotors I could get cost for 11 bucks rear and 17 bucks front? I mean everyone recommends Brembo but I really wonder if there is actually a difference.
Reguarding the mastercylinder/brake booster, Ive never heard of upgrading on a completely stock system so...?
Something else I want to do is custom brake ducting. That would contribute substantially to avoiding fade

[Irukandji]

Cheap and effective: SS lines, Cheap rotors from Napa Auto, Super blue brake fluid, and Axxis Ultimate pads.

you just need to know where to look, I spent less than $200 on my entire setup.

[kenversusryu]

ss lines will improve the brake pedal feel dramatically.

Just get good set of pads. If you aren't considering going to a track, i don't really see the need for a full brake upgrade.

Just get Pads and work from there.

[SoSideways]

Won't DOT 5.1 brake fluid eat through rubber lines?

[EchoOfSilence]

Originally Posted by SoSideways

Won't DOT 5.1 brake fluid eat through rubber lines?

yes, you need SS lines to handle dot5

[Irukandji]

5.1 is fine, 5 is not. Just thought I'd make that clear.


More Info: http://www.gs610.com/abc.htm

[wootwoot]

5.1 and 5.0 are completely different. Do not make the mistake of putting 5 in your car

[SRprelude]

Cheap and effective: SS lines, Cheap rotors from Napa Auto, Super blue brake fluid, and Axxis Ultimate pads.

you just need to know where to look, I spent less than $200 on my entire setup.

thats nice too!!!!

if ya got 350-400 you can do Z's and never need an upgrade, but its all depends on what you need the car for.

[SRprelude]

they don't give you better stopping power. they give you more power to lock up your wheels.

big brake upgrades dont just give you a greater chance of LOCK-UP. They significantly reduce brake fade and in some cases shorten your 60-0 foot braking distance. Other factors come into play obviously...... like pads, tires, road conditions........so dont say they dont give better stopping power, cuz i have a lot of canyons around my home and I've NEVER faded Z brakes like many friends have with stock brakes. Greater stopping power is available when you need it the most.

I don't recommend slotted discs due to shorter lifespan. Just get a set of Brembo solid discs. Slotted discs can work but will tend to warp more quickly,

Really?? Ive had my Brembo slotted Z32 rotors for more than 3 years, and Ive abused them with no problem. But at least Brembo blanks will save you some $$$

In my opinion, go with DOT 4 and a new s13 A/T brake mast. cyl.

[aznpoopy]

Originally Posted by SRprelude

big brake upgrades dont just give you a greater chance of LOCK-UP. They significantly reduce brake fade and in some cases shorten your 60-0 foot braking distance. Other factors come into play obviously...... like pads, tires, road conditions........so dont say they dont give better stopping power, cuz i have a lot of canyons around my home and I've NEVER faded Z brakes like many friends have with stock brakes. Greater stopping power is available when you need it the most.

try reading what i say instead of glancing over it.

Originally Posted by me

they don't give you better stopping power. they give you more power to lock up your wheels.

#1 do your brakes actually come into physical contact with the ground? no? good. mine don't either. therefore brakes do not stop the car. they stop the wheels from rotating which in turn stops the car.

#2 your tires stop the car. remember that. why do tires lock when you slam on the brakes? because they are the weak link in the chain. when you lock your wheels, you have exceeded the maximum grip of the tires.

follow that? good. what is the advantage of bigger rotors and pads (with regard to power to stop your wheels from rotating)? more contact patch between the rotor and pad. what is the advantage of more contact patch? more friction. more power to stop your wheels from rotating. NOT more power to stop the car.

now read this carefully. if your stock brakes can lock up the wheels already, what do you gain from that increased contact patch with your fancy schmancy big brakes? you exert less pedal effort to lock the wheels! wonderful! you can lock the wheels harder! joy. does that stop your car faster? no.

which leads to me to my conclusion, which also covered brake fade. reading skills man. see?

Originally Posted by me

if you can lock up your wheels with stock brakes, you aren't gaining anything except resistance to fade and less leg effort to lock.

1. you gain resistance vs fading
2. less effort to get to lock

now if you have super grippy tires, then you may suddenly find that your stock brakes are insufficient to lock the wheels. you slam on them all day and the wheels never lock up. why? the weak link in the chain is now your brake system. the tires are so awesome, your brakes just aren't strong enough to lock the wheels anymore. this is one instance in which you would want to go to bigger brakes.

the other instance is when you are running some track event and you find yourself fading the brakes even when you have high temperature track pads. yes, they make special pads that withstand uber high temperatures without brake fade. if you find yourself fading these suckers, then you also want to consider upgrading to larger brakes.

[SRprelude]

ok AZNpoop, referring back to my first reply to s13DAN...........

yes larger brakes not only dissapate heat better, but they do give better stopping power. Tires play a HUGE role as well. the money you might spend upgrading stock shit, you may as well get Z32.

i am aware of the processes that take place between your foot pressing on the brake and the vehicle coming to a stop. I also stated there were many factors that come into play when improving your braking system. One of them being tires. Obviously i wouldnt tell someone with a bone stock 240sx, rollin on dry-rotted H rated tires to go get Z brakes. But in his initial post, he was asking what he could do to upgrade his braking performance w/o going the Z32 route. All i did was make some suggestions...... and i didnt need your sarcasm

Stop over-alalyzing everything. I mean c'mon, you actually took the time to do a full write up on how a car comes to a stop? cool beans! forum whore. post #'s dont mean shit. Lets hope you can drive as good as you run your mouth

[aznpoopy]

if you're going to quote me, misunderstand what i say and then criticize me based on your mistake, then expect a thorough reply.

i never said anything about post count. why bring that into it?

[OptionZero]

This thread should honestly be stickied, that response a couple posts above is perfect.