is it possible to be "too slammed"

[poshatch]

i think so, ive often wondered how low a car can be and still perform good, with decent suspension gemotry and handling characteristics

i know there is a point on the s chasis that if you go below it, it really seems like it shouldnt perform that well anymore (without significant suspension modification), anybody know what happens when the car is just way way too low?
(taking into account that most of the suspension has been changed to be adjustable however no extreme modifications should be taken into account here)

besides the obvious hitting the pan, cross memeber, subframe busing retainer thing...etc..

whats your oppinion on how messed up the car can behave under such conditions?

ill start off i know that bump steer is increased alot when the front is slamed alot as well as alot of rubbing issues in the front

i know there are alot of people on zilvia who know there stuff, ive done hours and hours looking into how multilink works, but the few things i cant get my head around is the camber curve and rear thrust...

both positives and negatives would be great as examples thanks in advance

[tunersedge]

your asking a question that is subjective, everyone is going to have their own opinion on whether or not it is possible to be "too slammed"

IMO, it is possible to be too slammed...if you lower your vehicle to low it can cause a decrease in suspension performance.

[ranger240]

too slammed from a vehicle dynamics perspective? YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES .............


too slammed according to those hella flush/ road reflector bashing/ 3'' suspension travel/ screwed up suspension geometry/ hella tyte allstars? NOPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

the real question to this thread is if you want to modify your car to perform better, or if you want to modify your car to get confused attention from people who think two 500lb fatasses must be riding in that 20 year old dinky nissan

[Pandapants]

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/296725...on-thread.html

Engineer's galore.

[95KA-Turbo]

3" of suspension travel is being generous, lol.


If you drastically change any car's suspension geometry to the point that it has a negative impact on performance you're likely to experience things like - excessive body roll, bouncy/stiff/easily upset/overall sketchy handling (all of those at once), and fucked up camber/toe curves.

The 240's front suspension design works in a way that at a certain point you no longer gain negative camber as the suspension compresses, but you gain positive camber - which from a fitment and performance aspect is not good, haha.

You should be able to google general stuff about suspension geometry and then read the thread listed above and kind of figure out what's going on.

Check out NissanRoadRacing.com as well. Very good suspension geometry information on there. Between there, a few books, and the internet I have attempted to teach this kind of crap to myself; since I'm a biologist by degree, a photographer by trade, and no where in there were there any engineering classes, haha!

[PoorMans180SX]

Originally Posted by Pandapants

http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/296725...on-thread.html

Engineer's galore.

Yeah, read through that thread. I mean seriously read through it. There is so much information (that's posted buy guys that actually know their stuff) that it takes a while to take it all in.

Other than that, google is your friend.

[thefro526]

Yes, you can be "Too Slammed" or too low. There is a point where your suspension becomes essentially useless, and I would consider that being "too slammed".

Is it a bad thing?

Depends on who you ask.

Check out the roll center thread though, it's got some really enlightening stuff in it. You'll learn more than you'll ever want to know about suspension on an S-Chassis.

[poshatch]

ive looked threw that post before ill definatly look threw it again to see if the minor things i havnt grasped yet are in there

thank you all for jumping on this and providing great examples of how this multilink suspension does not preform as good when it is slammed below a certain point without significant adjustments, i feel that there are alot of misconseptions about what is good versus good looking for a cars suspension and it is one of the areas that i do the most research on

decreased suspension travel and incorect camber curves seem to be the enemy here as well as there being parts that are pushed to the limits being that low. im currently working on making the suspension of the car react the way i want it too and i continualy adjust and test various things on my suspension, although i have not made the jump yet to aftermarket uprights and spindles i feel that will be next on the list

maybe somebody could post a pic of a ride height along with alignmet specs on a set up that seems good for them, id also like input from you all on my curent specs to see if i can get any suggestions to go in the right direction

front:

camber: -5.5 (i feel that this is way to much my best set up seemed to be at -2.5)
caster: 8.0* (i noticed that when i increased it the steering became much more sensitive the higher the speed increased)
toe: (oem spec, project silvia tie rods lowered it somewhat to try to eliminate bumpsteer)
SAI (18.6*, this is what creates that self steer affect is it not?)

rear:

camber: (-2.5*, ive always had it at around this much ive consittered decreasingthe camber to 2.0* or maybe less, oppinions?)
toe: (for drifting im thining .5* toe in)
thrust angle: (-.04*, i dont know how to really read or adjust this measurment.)

once again, thanks for looking and responding

[GabeS14]

Originally Posted by poshatch

ive looked threw that post before ill definatly look threw it again to see if the minor things i havnt grasped yet are in there

thank you all for jumping on this and providing great examples of how this multilink suspension does not preform as good when it is slammed below a certain point without significant adjustments, i feel that there are alot of misconseptions about what is good versus good looking for a cars suspension and it is one of the areas that i do the most research on

decreased suspension travel and incorect camber curves seem to be the enemy here as well as there being parts that are pushed to the limits being that low. im currently working on making the suspension of the car react the way i want it too and i continualy adjust and test various things on my suspension, although i have not made the jump yet to aftermarket uprights and spindles i feel that will be next on the list

maybe somebody could post a pic of a ride height along with alignmet specs on a set up that seems good for them, id also like input from you all on my curent specs to see if i can get any suggestions to go in the right direction

front:

camber: -5.5 (i feel that this is way to much my best set up seemed to be at -2.5)
caster: 8.0* (i noticed that when i increased it the steering became much more sensitive the higher the speed increased)
toe: (oem spec, project silvia tie rods lowered it somewhat to try to eliminate bumpsteer)
SAI (18.6*, this is what creates that self steer affect is it not?)

rear:

camber: (-2.5*, ive always had it at around this much ive consittered decreasingthe camber to 2.0* or maybe less, oppinions?)
toe: (for drifting im thining .5* toe in)
thrust angle: (-.04*, i dont know how to really read or adjust this measurment.)

once again, thanks for looking and responding

If you know that thread exists you should post this question there, you will get a lot more help.

[ZX88]

if your tire is above the frame and you cant move you are too slammed.

[renegade_ewok]

Ideally you want your control arms parallel with the road.

Anything lower than that is, usually, bad from a handling dynamics viewpoint.