Power and government : Who owns you? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 07:50 PM

Who owns you?

This question is the basis of all political and economic theory.

Most would say "I own me" but the federal/state government would disagree.

So I pose the question to all of you.

Who owns you?

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 07:59 PM

You ask the question, but you don't give your own answer?

The US government currently "owns" me for another three years, because I'm in the military.

But, with that being said, I am still free to do things to improve my life, visit the places that I want to go, invest/spend my money in a way I see fit, etc, etc. So even though I'm "owned", it doesn't change anything about the way I live my life.

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 08:10 PM

My answer is that I wish to own me but the government also stakes a claim, as they do with every thing else I wish to own.

NINJASPY · 12-14-2010, 08:15 PM

Unless you have dual citizenship, and don't use American Dollars, AMERICA OWNS YOU

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 08:20 PM

How about a secondary question:

Are you allowed to commit suicide? Why or why not?

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 08:27 PM

edit: I have a feeling this is a loaded question and you are going to come out of left field with something dumb, but I'll play along.

Irrelevant question, because suicide is an irrational action.

But, if you would like to commit suicide, sure, you can do it if you want, there might be repercussions as far as any kind of life insurance policies. Just climb up on your roof, and jump head first, you are free to do that if you want to.

NismoDriverS13 · 12-14-2010, 08:30 PM

in my eyes, we are cattle and the government is our sheppard. they milk us for every penny we got! taxes, tickets, rules, laws, pay here pay there., do this do that....

i call bs on goverment and do not trust these assholes.

goverment is corruption!

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 08:46 PM

Suicide is illegal. This means you have no ownership of yourself. Your owner is telling you you can't do that and if you try there will be punishment.

If you truly owned yourself in the eyes of the government you would be able to do what you wish with your body.

Personally it is my intent to give no ownership of the self to anyone.

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Personally it is my intent to give no ownership of the self to anyone.

Good luck with that, you might want to go colonize your own planet if that is your intent, because it's not going to happen any other way.

If someone is selfish enough to commit suicide, they won't be worried about the legal ramifications held against their corpse or property.

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 09:08 PM

A single person is smart enough to run their own lives. If you take away the government and let "people" run their own lives, it will be absolute anarchy. A person is smart, PEOPLE are fucking stupid.

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 09:44 PM

If that's how you feel just stay active duty. They will be happy to run your life for you.

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 09:49 PM

Haha, no, I'm about the most anti-military person in the military, I don't believe in what we are fighting for (but that's a different subject altogether). Three years left, and I'm out, onto MUCH bigger and better things.

I do believe that the government serves a good purpose, because without government, we lose all of our government agencies. Government pays the police and fire department, so who pays them with no government? They become private companies, and then what happens if you need help, but don't have the money up front? That's just one example.

People in general are too selfish and too stupid to run the world on their own, we need government to guide us in the right direction. If you don't feel it's the right direction, I suggest you move somewhere that is going the direction you would like.

BOROSUN · 12-14-2010, 09:59 PM

free or just privileged?

*kingkilburn* · 12-14-2010, 10:02 PM

I am comfortable with government and I never said otherwise but people can, have, and will do just fine without it.

superbike81 · 12-14-2010, 11:09 PM

I guess we disagree then.

axiomatik · 12-15-2010, 11:52 AM

What a bizarre question, and one that leads to painting complex issues into black and white simplification.

What do you consider "ownership"? Why do you think that the government "owns" part of you?

Your question, by it's nature, paints the government as some sort of eternal, unchanging power, a god-like being in some primitive religion. However, government is a creation of society. We all choose to live within society, and the society we have chosen to stay in has developed government as a tool to accomplish certain things. If you don't want government intervention, then leave the society that created it. Choose another society with a different government, or wander the wilderness free from the constraints of society and government (but also lacking the benefits that come from society and government).

We may find certain laws and regulations to be stupid or oppressive, but we must remember that because we are a member of our society, our actions effect those around us, both directly and indirectly. Government was created as a tool to preserve order and prevent those who would try from infringing on the rights of others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Suicide is illegal. This means you have no ownership of yourself. Your owner is telling you you can't do that and if you try there will be punishment.

If you truly owned yourself in the eyes of the government you would be able to do what you wish with your body.

Personally it is my intent to give no ownership of the self to anyone.

Are you sure about that? I can't find any sources that indicate that suicide is illegal in the US.

fender-startocaster · 12-31-2010, 09:26 AM

The fact that were having this discussion shows you how currupt the government is. Government was created for the people, by the people. Sooo... in other words. The people run the government. Thats why we have representatives to represent us. So in the perfect world we own the the government. I could be wrong but thats how i look at it.

rc1honda · 12-31-2010, 12:46 PM

The government doesn't own me. The Federal Reserve does. The people in power at the FED own all of us. If you work and pay takes they can buy and sell any one of us.

The US is no longer a country, we are a corporation. I know they don't necessarily own my mind. But when it comes to monetary decisions, such as car, house, school, and retirement they own all of us.

The fed has more power then any single government entity. They effect our intrest rates and have a effect on every dollar we and the government spends.

Our very way of life is totally dependent upon the Fed and the 13 people who run it. It's not the government that owns anyone. Its the Fed

20 til 3 · 12-31-2010, 01:34 PM

The government owns everybody

but, some people try to tread against the govnt. and say that they are not. But in the end they will always catch up to you and make your life hell. Like was said before, if you are smart enough... you can do exactly what you're suppose to on paper... but yet be able to be yourself and do what you want.

but, that takes patience and time. Its all about money, sadly there is no way around it

BustedS13 · 01-04-2011, 02:28 PM

this thread reminds me of a great John Carpenter movie.

Gnnr · 01-04-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingkilburn

Suicide is illegal.

If you succeed, are they going to arrest your dead corpse? lol.

Uncle Sam owns your income no matter where in the world you live.

All U.S. citizens, including those who do not live in the United States, are subject to U.S. income tax on their worldwide income.

Anyways, axiomatik posted the most intelligent comment in this thread.

[email protected] · 01-06-2011, 05:10 AM

If you can't beat them, join them.

Just be aware of your surroundings, have you ever wondered why so much money is put into defense budget / wars for the USA?

12-14-2010, 07:50 PM	#1
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Power and government : Who owns you? Who owns you? This question is the basis of all political and economic theory. Most would say "I own me" but the federal/state government would disagree. So I pose the question to all of you. Who owns you? __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 08:10 PM	#3
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My answer is that I wish to own me but the government also stakes a claim, as they do with every thing else I wish to own. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 08:20 PM	#5
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	How about a secondary question: Are you allowed to commit suicide? Why or why not? __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 08:46 PM	#8
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Suicide is illegal. This means you have no ownership of yourself. Your owner is telling you you can't do that and if you try there will be punishment. If you truly owned yourself in the eyes of the government you would be able to do what you wish with your body. Personally it is my intent to give no ownership of the self to anyone. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 09:44 PM	#11
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If that's how you feel just stay active duty. They will be happy to run your life for you. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 07:59 PM	#2
superbike81 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Who Knows? Age: 43 Posts: 393 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	You ask the question, but you don't give your own answer? The US government currently "owns" me for another three years, because I'm in the military. But, with that being said, I am still free to do things to improve my life, visit the places that I want to go, invest/spend my money in a way I see fit, etc, etc. So even though I'm "owned", it doesn't change anything about the way I live my life.

12-14-2010, 08:15 PM	#4
NINJASPY Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: So-cal Los Angeles 626 Age: 43 Posts: 1,009 Trader Rating: (13) Feedback Score: 13 reviews	Unless you have dual citizenship, and don't use American Dollars, AMERICA OWNS YOU

12-14-2010, 08:27 PM	#6
superbike81 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Who Knows? Age: 43 Posts: 393 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	edit: I have a feeling this is a loaded question and you are going to come out of left field with something dumb, but I'll play along. Irrelevant question, because suicide is an irrational action. But, if you would like to commit suicide, sure, you can do it if you want, there might be repercussions as far as any kind of life insurance policies. Just climb up on your roof, and jump head first, you are free to do that if you want to.

12-14-2010, 08:30 PM	#7
NismoDriverS13 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: So-Cal Age: 38 Posts: 506 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	in my eyes, we are cattle and the government is our sheppard. they milk us for every penny we got! taxes, tickets, rules, laws, pay here pay there., do this do that.... i call bs on goverment and do not trust these assholes. goverment is corruption!

12-14-2010, 09:08 PM	#10
superbike81 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Who Knows? Age: 43 Posts: 393 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	A single person is smart enough to run their own lives. If you take away the government and let "people" run their own lives, it will be absolute anarchy. A person is smart, PEOPLE are fucking stupid.

12-14-2010, 09:49 PM	#12
superbike81 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Who Knows? Age: 43 Posts: 393 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Haha, no, I'm about the most anti-military person in the military, I don't believe in what we are fighting for (but that's a different subject altogether). Three years left, and I'm out, onto MUCH bigger and better things. I do believe that the government serves a good purpose, because without government, we lose all of our government agencies. Government pays the police and fire department, so who pays them with no government? They become private companies, and then what happens if you need help, but don't have the money up front? That's just one example. People in general are too selfish and too stupid to run the world on their own, we need government to guide us in the right direction. If you don't feel it's the right direction, I suggest you move somewhere that is going the direction you would like.

12-14-2010, 09:59 PM	#13
BOROSUN Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: two legit to quit Age: 43 Posts: 5,236 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	free or just privileged?

12-14-2010, 10:02 PM	#14
kingkilburn Philosopher King Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: FresYes Posts: 3,042 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I am comfortable with government and I never said otherwise but people can, have, and will do just fine without it. __________________ G O L D E N B E A R R E P U B L I C

12-14-2010, 11:09 PM	#15
superbike81 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Who Knows? Age: 43 Posts: 393 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I guess we disagree then.

12-31-2010, 09:26 AM	#17
fender-startocaster Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: palmdale Posts: 446 Trader Rating: (6) Feedback Score: 6 reviews	The fact that were having this discussion shows you how currupt the government is. Government was created for the people, by the people. Sooo... in other words. The people run the government. Thats why we have representatives to represent us. So in the perfect world we own the the government. I could be wrong but thats how i look at it.

12-31-2010, 12:46 PM	#18
rc1honda Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicago Age: 42 Posts: 433 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	The government doesn't own me. The Federal Reserve does. The people in power at the FED own all of us. If you work and pay takes they can buy and sell any one of us. The US is no longer a country, we are a corporation. I know they don't necessarily own my mind. But when it comes to monetary decisions, such as car, house, school, and retirement they own all of us. The fed has more power then any single government entity. They effect our intrest rates and have a effect on every dollar we and the government spends. Our very way of life is totally dependent upon the Fed and the 13 people who run it. It's not the government that owns anyone. Its the Fed

12-31-2010, 01:34 PM	#19
20 til 3 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sioux falls SD Age: 36 Posts: 662 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	The government owns everybody but, some people try to tread against the govnt. and say that they are not. But in the end they will always catch up to you and make your life hell. Like was said before, if you are smart enough... you can do exactly what you're suppose to on paper... but yet be able to be yourself and do what you want. but, that takes patience and time. Its all about money, sadly there is no way around it

01-04-2011, 02:28 PM	#20
BustedS13 Post Whore! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Phoenix AZ Age: 39 Posts: 10,287 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	this thread reminds me of a great John Carpenter movie. __________________

01-06-2011, 05:10 AM	#22
[email protected] Advertiser Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA (91423) Age: 34 Posts: 478 Trader Rating: (87) Feedback Score: 87 reviews	If you can't beat them, join them. Just be aware of your surroundings, have you ever wondered why so much money is put into defense budget / wars for the USA?