Welcome to the New America

[RJF]

Standard & Poor’s has downgraded the United States credit rating to AA+ from the top-notch AAA. Read the press release:

United States of America Long-Term Rating Lowered To ‘AA+’ Due To Political Risks, Rising Debt Burden; Outlook Negative

We have lowered our long-term sovereign credit rating on the United States of America to ‘AA+’ from ‘AAA’ and affirmed the ‘A-1+’ short-term rating.
We have also removed both the short- and long-term ratings from CreditWatch negative.
The downgrade reflects our opinion that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration recently agreed to falls short of what, in our view, would be necessary to stabilize the government’s medium-term debt dynamics.
More broadly, the downgrade reflects our view that the effectiveness, stability, and predictability of American policymaking and political institutions have weakened at a time of ongoing fiscal and economic challenges to a degree more than we envisioned when we assigned a negative outlook to the rating on April 18, 2011.
Since then, we have changed our view of the difficulties in bridging the gulf between the political parties over fiscal policy, which makes us pessimistic about the capacity of Congress and the Administration to be able to leverage their agreement this week into a broader fiscal consolidation plan that stabilizes the government’s debt dynamics any time soon.
The outlook on the long-term rating is negative. We could lower the long-term rating to ‘AA’ within the next two years if we see that less reduction in spending than agreed to, higher interest rates, or new fiscal pressures during the period result in a higher general government debt trajectory than we currently assume in our base case.

[Gnnr]

Fucking tea party....

[ESmorz]

We're all fucked, and it's only going to get worse before there is even a possibility it can get better.

Better get your kicks before the whole shit house goes up in flames.

[rc1honda]

The beginning of the birth pangs. Everything is coming to head but it's really not to late.

But it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because it is easier to start from scratch then fix our financial institution. If the country goes broke then there is a legitimate reason for no more pensions, no welfare, no free heathcare and financial aid for illegal immigrants, no social security, no medicare or medicade. No more reserve banking and Fiat currency. Start from scratch, the bankers and politicians already got what they wanted.

It's a scapegoat. The most eloquent scam ever enacted on a populous, perpetrated by world banks and powerful men. We gave our country to the banks almost 100 years ago. Now we pay for it. While politicians and bankers and investing companies got obscenely rich, the American people were subjected to the biggest illusion in civilized history. That our country was to big, rich, and powerful to fail. While the powers that be protected their well being and that of their families, the average American was bled dry and enslaved.

This really is like looking in a ancient mirror that reflects the fall of the Roman empire and many since. Financial irresponsibility.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Fucking tea party....

Fucking Giants Amounts of Debt....

[BustedS13]

RJF, can you give me some insight on how this is entirely the democrats' fault?

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

RJF, can you give me some insight on how this is entirely the democrats' fault?

[rc1honda]

World leaders to confer on debt crises this weekend - Yahoo! Finance

Well the ish just hit the fan. China says it will no longer borrow to the US. Also, the Chinese are calling for a new standard currency that's more stable.

Now i don't know if most people know this, but that statement it pretty much a act of war. If the US dollar is no longer the standard currency, the money in every Americans pockets wont be worth the paper it printed on literally.

If the standard currency is no longer the dollar, oil will no longer be traded in dollars and gas prices will go to 10 or 15 if not more dollars a gallon. The start of the economic and social collapse of American infrastructure. If the standard currency changes, life as American will change drastically in the span of 24 hours.

I don't think most people know the gravity of the this situation. For the US as a nation to continue as has the imperative for the US dollar to remain the standard currency.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by rc1honda

World leaders to confer on debt crises this weekend - Yahoo! Finance

I don't think most people know the gravity of the this situation. For the US as a nation to continue as has the imperative for the US dollar to remain the standard currency.

Exactly. This has been going on behind the scenes for a while. Middle Eastern Countries, China, India, Japan and Russia have all be talking about building their own new world currency.

The Euro is actually a failed attempt at this prior, but the idea is once all commodities are exchanged and bought in said currency, everyone else is at the mercy of that value.

So lets call it the "Dalie", if the Dalie goes up in straight, we all pay more, while the Chinese et al would just be getting more for their Dalie. You also then have to pay all the exchange fees, but also when you bid on a commodity, and actually pay for it are at two separate times.

So, I buy 5 million barrels of oil at the rate of 50 Dalies a barrel. The current exchange rate is $2 per barrel, so I spent 5,000 million USD to get these, however, in the following two weeks, the Chinese prime-minister says something stupid and the Dalie falls and its now 62 Dalies to the barrel, and 1.90 to the dalie.... and did i lose or make money cause i also have to pay .34% to convert my funds?

The other problem with all of this is that American is still one of the most violent and harden nations in the world. Look at our track records, we just can't stay out of a fight. (BTW its Democrats start more wars than Republicans, this isn't a party thing, but a cultural one).

This coupled with the fact that the rest of the world is still 15-20 years behind our Military in technological capability, 50 years behind it in experience and exercise and almost 70 years behind us in power project leaves a very grim out look for how the next hundred years will unfold.


It won't be a surprise when a nationalist party takes over blaming both Republicans and Democrats. There is already strong anxiety in from the middle and upper classes that the system is fucking them, their is already anger and anxiety about illegal immigration and the degradation of American values and culture in the wake of "tolerance" foreigners who openly spit on our ways (radical islam).

Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...

[Freddy]

here an article explaining why there a down grade:

United States loses prized AAA credit rating from S&P | Reuters

Here the report

http://www.standardandpoors.com/serv...ervalue3=UTF-8


Here's summary of S&P's reasoning and link to the report:

Using the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip was a bad idea:

"The political brinksmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy."

Medicare and Social Security must be reformed:

"the plan envisions only minor policy changes on Medicare and little change in other entitlements, the containment of which we and most other independent observers regard as key to long-term fiscal sustainability."

S&P doesn't care if the "balance" comes from more revenue (taxes) or more cuts:
"Standard & Poor's takes no position on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might conclude is appropriate for putting the U.S.'s finances on a sustainable footing."

The downgrade was due, in part, to a belief that the Bush tax cuts will remain. Previous projections treated them as expiring:

"Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act."


PS I didn't write this just thing that help me understand the situation

[Matej]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

[lewisfk]

Ten years of no revenue, plus two wars unpaid for. O ya, the senior citizen prescription bill. Thats the Bush era shit, then the new healthcare bill. Most of the healthcare bill doesnt kick in yet. The biggest reason web are fallimg is the uneducated tea party , with the republicans who signed the berquiest bill. Whats ever that fuckers name is. No revenue, no jobs, no credit. Ya small government.

[slowvia]

You know what, I actually agree with you Corbic. In fact they have already proposed a new American currency that will replace the American and Canadian dollar, as well as the Peso, its called the Amero (sp?).
This is definitely scary times for the country and 99% of the population, who knows what can happen?

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Exactly. This has been going on behind the scenes for a while. Middle Eastern Countries, China, India, Japan and Russia have all be talking about building their own new world currency.

The Euro is actually a failed attempt at this prior, but the idea is once all commodities are exchanged and bought in said currency, everyone else is at the mercy of that value.

So lets call it the "Dalie", if the Dalie goes up in straight, we all pay more, while the Chinese et al would just be getting more for their Dalie. You also then have to pay all the exchange fees, but also when you bid on a commodity, and actually pay for it are at two separate times.

So, I buy 5 million barrels of oil at the rate of 50 Dalies a barrel. The current exchange rate is $2 per barrel, so I spent 5,000 million USD to get these, however, in the following two weeks, the Chinese prime-minister says something stupid and the Dalie falls and its now 62 Dalies to the barrel, and 1.90 to the dalie.... and did i lose or make money cause i also have to pay .34% to convert my funds?

The other problem with all of this is that American is still one of the most violent and harden nations in the world. Look at our track records, we just can't stay out of a fight. (BTW its Democrats start more wars than Republicans, this isn't a party thing, but a cultural one).

This coupled with the fact that the rest of the world is still 15-20 years behind our Military in technological capability, 50 years behind it in experience and exercise and almost 70 years behind us in power project leaves a very grim out look for how the next hundred years will unfold.


It won't be a surprise when a nationalist party takes over blaming both Republicans and Democrats. There is already strong anxiety in from the middle and upper classes that the system is fucking them, their is already anger and anxiety about illegal immigration and the degradation of American values and culture in the wake of "tolerance" foreigners who openly spit on our ways (radical islam).

Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...

I see where your going but I highly doubt it. History repeats itself, and America's history is very very cyclical. Just study the period right after WWI to Great Depression.

If anything it will go into a period of deep isolationism just as it did in that time. Just like then people where tired of War, tired of intervening in the world, and had to deal with the crap economy. Even with trade and things like oil we could close ourselves off from the world if we really wanted to.

There is no strong push to go towards any extreme on the political scale at the moment like Communism vs Facism at the time (Tea party pressure etc is a joke compared to the pressure to go to those extremes at the time) but the US did find its happy medium then, and will again. The US does actually get up off its ass and deals with its problems when shit totally hits the fan.

Also, the funniest about party labels is that they are constantly exchanged between the ideologies of both parties. You can go back in history and see that the Deomocrats of now had the ideals pretty damn close to the Republicans and that Republicans had ideals pretty damn close to what Democrats had (we're talking decades here though). They just get tweaked and modified a bit here and there.

[tgd89]

Originally Posted by Corbic

...
Americans LOVE people that give good speeches, we love to blame people too, and we have a military that would take an entire world allegiance to even consider stopping.... and now that we are about to fall into global humiliation and economic dispair... wait, this sounds familiar...

Godwin's Law.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Matej

Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

What makes me cringe is the self-proclaimed intellectuals that love to make smug comments about how everyone else is dumb but then actually contribute nothing nor make an attempt to explain why they THINK everyone is dumb and what they THINK is the "RIGHT" answer or explanation.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by lewisfk

Ten years of no revenue, plus two wars unpaid for. O ya, the senior citizen prescription bill. Thats the Bush era shit, then the new healthcare bill. Most of the healthcare bill doesnt kick in yet. The biggest reason web are fallimg is the uneducated tea party , with the republicans who signed the berquiest bill. Whats ever that fuckers name is. No revenue, no jobs, no credit. Ya small government.

If only Clinton took international terrorism serious and stopped Osama back in the 90's


The two wars are the response to 9/11, people have a short memory. Right or Wrong America wanted to punch someone, and guess who stuck their heads out? Even Kerry voted for the war... before he voted against it... I guess? Its a shame Obama wasn't in office at the time, It would have made an interesting voting record.

Also, the 2004 election almost had nothing to do with spending, neither side cared, it was who was a bigger war hero, the "i stubbed my toe and protested Vietnam" Kerry or the "My dads rich and I flew jets in texas in between dui's" Bush.

I seem to recall Democrats taking over the congress in 2006 as well... no? They've also done nothing to curb the spending but just slammed the pedal to the metal since they dominated all facets of the government for the last few years.


What is done is done. Stop bitching about the previous administration. I don't recall Bush crying about inheriting a lame duck intelligence agency and a overlooked global war on terrorism that spent 20 years festering before knocking down the world trade center.

[SimpleS14]

The pieces are falling together to create the opportunity to push a new currency and financial policy on a global scale. :/

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

There is no strong push to go towards any extreme on the political scale at the moment like Communism vs Facism at the time (Tea party pressure etc is a joke compared to the pressure to go to those extremes at the time) but the US did find its happy medium then, and will again. The US does actually get up off its ass and deals with its problems when shit totally hits the fan.

I'm not arguing about a Communistic or Fascist take over. Remember, those are styles of Government. I don't think we'll take a radical change in governmental structure, just a radical change in both domestic and foreign policy, outlook and politics. Good example, today you can say your a Communist and even enter presidential appointed positions. In 1950's you would have been put in jail.

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Also, the funniest about party labels is that they are constantly exchanged between the ideologies of both parties. You can go back in history and see that the Democrats of now had the ideals pretty damn close to the Republicans and that Republicans had ideals pretty damn close to what Democrats had (we're talking decades here though). They just get tweaked and modified a bit here and there.

Try a few hundred years. Republicans where once radicals and Democrats, who are seen today as champions of minorities and a massive Federal Government, started a Civil War over states rights and slavery (pro).

Demarcates also dragged us into both World Wars and two wars against communists as well as recognized Israeli as a state. Many today (right or wrong) would argue many Dem's resemble communists/socialists and are anti-Israel as well.

This is straying off topic, but all I'm saying is People are just animals at the end of the day, and when you push an animal in a corner, they show their teeth.

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by Matej

Makes me cringe so much whenever Americans talk about Nazi Germany, socialism, WWII, and whatever other topic they barely know anything about yet believe themselves to be experts on.

makes me cringe when people from middle america weigh in on any topic ever. peasant

have you ever even had animal fries?

[shiftdrift]

just checking in, seemed like a premie party. then i saw busted....and realized it was a fairy party...shit

[BustedS13]

Originally Posted by shiftdrift

just checking in, seemed like a premie party. then i saw busted....and realized it was a fairy party...shit

when they got rid of the rep system, the circlejerk was over. being premie is so 2008; Welcome to the New Zilvia

[HalveBlue]

This is pathetic.

The current economic situation supersedes party lines and was decades in the making.

This isn't the Democrats' or Republicans' shit pile. It's America's.

The ramifications of this issue effect every American and, unless we fix it, will continue to do so for generations to come.

But instead of Americans working together to find a solution to an issue that affects us all, we'd much rather go off on tangents and blame the other guy.

Whatever...fuck it...ignorance is bliss...

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Corbic

This is straying off topic, but all I'm saying is People are just animals at the end of the day, and when you push an animal in a corner, they show their teeth.

Yeah, I just don't think we're even that disciplined enough to turn into some systematic army of citizens a la WWII Germany, Russia, Japan, China etc.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by HalveBlue

This is pathetic.

The current economic situation supersedes party lines and was decades in the making.

This isn't the Democrats' or Republicans' shit pile. It's America's.

The ramifications of this issue effect every American and, unless we fix it, will continue to do so for generations to come.

But instead of Americans working together to find a solution to an issue that affects us all, we'd much rather go off on tangents and blame the other guy.

Whatever...fuck it...ignorance is bliss...

The problem is democracy. When everyone's vote is equal, but in actuality everyone is far from equal in education, income, earning potential and "amount of give a shit" when have a problem.

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by Corbic

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

Thats nothing special. If the lending bubble showed us anything is that lots of morons bought property. Eitherway, statistically the lower the education level attained the lower the voter turnout anyway.....

[ineedone]

This is just S&P. Last time I checked they were so awesome that they completely missed the financial meltdown last time around (and carry no real legitimacy to anyone except politicos). Please get your heads out of the doomsday machines. It means nothing, half of Europe is still AAA with S&P and I can guarantee you NO ONE is running to put their money in that cluster... Other than creating great bumper stickers for the half-wit tea party idiots who hate the government but love their non government medicare (get it?) nothing has changed.

[ineedone]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The problem is democracy. When everyone's vote is equal, but in actuality everyone is far from equal in education, income, earning potential and "amount of give a shit" when have a problem.

I say you shouldn't get to vote unless you own property again.

Yeah that worked great... I mean labor is cheap when it is slave labor too... lets get back to that.

[Gnnr]

Originally Posted by ineedone

This is just S&P. Last time I checked they were so awesome that they completely missed the financial meltdown last time around (and carry no real legitimacy to anyone except politicos). Please get your heads out of the doomsday machines. It means nothing, half of Europe is still AAA with S&P and I can guarantee you NO ONE is running to put their money in that cluster... Other than creating great bumper stickers for the half-wit tea party idiots who hate the government but love their non government medicare (get it?) nothing has changed.

Oh BTW, the CEO of the S&P (McGraw) is Republican....

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Thats nothing special. If the lending bubble showed us anything is that lots of morons bought property. Eitherway, statistically the lower the education level attained the lower the voter turnout anyway.....

Its not that "smart" people own property, but simply if you own property you are paying taxes and have a vested interest.

Its easy to scream for more benefits when you contribute nothing and have nothing to lose if taxes are raised, companies go out of business and the middle and upper class collapse.