Illuminas vs. Koni Yellows vs. GAB SuperHP

[MrMigs]

The main comparison is between shocks that adjust both compression and rebound (tokico illuminas & gab superhp) and shocks that adjust only rebound (koni yellows).

I plan to buy one of these strut packages to match with my KGMM S21 SuperSports. They're 4.6kg/mm in the front and 4.0kg/mm in the rear -- linear rate. (So they're pretty damn stiff)

My main concern is that if I get a shock that adjusts compression and rebound at the same time, I might run into some trouble. Let's say that I start off with my shocks set at level 1 all the way around, and I want to increase the damping because my car is still pretty bouncy. Okay... so I turn the knob to level 2. But with the increased damping, there is also increased compression stiffness, and my car would still be bouncy.

With Koni Yellows, I would simply adjust damping until it feels right. I wouldn't really have a problem with the compression level increasing because that's at a constant rate.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I would really like to get a set of GAB Super HPs, but I'm not sure if they would give me that problem or not.

[MrMigs]

NEVERMIND!!!

I just found out something cool today. It seems that I could get a set of koni yellows and if I ever wanted compression adjustability, I can send them in and they can UPGRADE them for me!! That's pretty damn cool! Plus, if they add compression adjustability, I think I would be able to adjust compression and rebound separately -- meaning one knob for compression and one knob for rebound. Sounds like a cool plan woot woot!

[DSC]

But what if the stock compression on the koni doesn't work well with such stiff springs? Then you'd be screwed like so many other people who use mismatched springs/shocks.
I really don't know, just something to think about.

Expect to pay about $200 more for a set of gab's and I don't know the price for adjustable tokico's but I would imagine it would be around $800 or so as well.

I was looking at gab's for a while but for springs and shocks like I wanted and then camber correction I could just buy tein's HE or HA coilovers <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> guaranteed match of springs and shocks plus the addition of height adjustability.

Edit: just saw your post...
"meaning one knob for compression and one knob for rebound"
THAT would kick serious ass! It would take a lot of time to fine tune it but once you got used to it you could get the exact setup you wanted...I'd kill for some tein's to have that <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':but:'> with the edfc for both of course <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[HippoSleek]

I've heard plenty of times that dual adjustment shocks are more trouble than they're worth - unless you really know what you are doing. &nbsp;I know a few people who bought them mid autox season and took them off b/c they screwed up their handling too much.

[MrMigs]

Hippo: are you talking about Koni Dual-Adjustment shocks or dual adjustment shocks in general? Also, are you talking about shocks that adjust compression and rebound simultaneously or separately (one knob fo compression and one knob for rebound)

Were the shocks defective or did your friends just not know what settings to use?

DSC:
If the springs are very stiff, then wouldn't you simply counteract their high stiffness with increased rebound settings on the shocks?

And yes, separate rebound/compression knobs would kick ass <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MrMigs @ June 16 2002,7:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hippo: are you talking about Koni Dual-Adjustment shocks or dual adjustment shocks in general? Also, are you talking about shocks that adjust compression and rebound simultaneously or separately (one knob fo compression and one knob for rebound)

Were the shocks defective or did your friends just not know what settings to use?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I was talking about dual-adjustables in general. &nbsp;Expensive (often remote resevoir) systems. &nbsp;They adjust separately - dual knobs. &nbsp;I guess one knob might be able to do two adjustments, but I don't really think of that as a dual-adjustable system b/c you are only adjusting the damping, generally - not compression and rebound. &nbsp;(I have a feeling that is not what we are talking about here now that I think about the products you mentioned... I think a true dual adj. starts at about $800/shock. - sorry for too much info <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> )

They're not really friends - just people I know via boards. &nbsp;And I'd say these guys knew more about suspensions than anyone on this board - waay more. &nbsp;The three people I can think of (incl. the replacer guy) are nationally competitive autoxers or road racers.

[bbp]

I use Koni's for a couple of reasons.

1. They are rebuildable.
2. &nbsp;Can be custom valved to whatever springs you use.
3. Can be modified for rebound and compressionseparate adjustments.
4. &nbsp;Some of the best quality available

[HippoSleek]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bbp @ June 17 2002,09:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I use Koni's for a couple of reasons.

1. They are rebuildable.
2. Can be custom valved to whatever springs you use.
3. Can be modified for rebound and compression separate adjustments.
4. Some of the best quality available</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
A question: are there any other shocks, with US support, that you could even use on your car? &nbsp;I know Tok has nothing in the US and GAB has the less than stellar Wings Corp. &nbsp;Ohlins, etc. are all remote resevoir. &nbsp;What other options are there?

[240 2NR]

In the shop right now are a set of koni yellows, and a set of tokiko illumina 5 way adjustables. &nbsp;The konis are for my whiteline springs and will soon be going on my 240, and the tokikos are going on my friend's 510 race car.

We were fooling around and comparing (very unscientifically) the two sets of shocks. &nbsp;At 1 on the tokikos, they are easy to compress and decompress. &nbsp;At 5 they are downright stiff and with both of us compressing it, it took several seconds (like 8-10) to fully compress and even longer to uncompress. &nbsp;The koni's compression seems to be around 3 on the tokikos, not super stiff, but still stiff (these dampers are supposed to be specially valved to match the whiteline springs with a 150 lb/in rate so it is very possible that other applications may be stiffer or softer as these are not standard off the shelf koni yellows). &nbsp;Rebound is continously variable from super soft to nearly as stiff as solid metal. &nbsp;It's substantially stiffer than the tokikos set to 5. &nbsp;With both of us pulling on it, we couldn't fully elongate the strut (it moved an inch) without dialing it back to a softer setting. &nbsp;I will be comparing these side by side again to the stock 10 year old struts that come off the car this week as well.

As for build, the tokikos have huge pistons. &nbsp;The bar is of considerably thicker diameter, maybe 1.5 times thicker than the konis. &nbsp;I have to believe that that also means there is a lot less oil/gas capacity within the shock. &nbsp;Also, the ones we took off the car with about 3 seasons (3 years old) of races were nearly as stiff as the ones that were brand new. &nbsp;With our testing method it was hard to see any difference. &nbsp;This car is very low, somthing like a 3"+ drop with 1000lb springs in the rear (geometry reduces it to around 300lb at the wheel IIRC) so they are working pretty hard, even if it's only a few weekends per year (including one 10 hour enduro) so to be in such good shape does speak of their quality. &nbsp;

I have no experience with GAB, but my guess is with any of the three you will be happy. &nbsp;The koni's may require special attention to ensure you match the valving to the spring.