I CANNOT figure this out! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Tomslide50 · 06-08-2006, 09:01 PM

It's a 91 ka24de. I had the head rebuilt, replaced rings and rod bearings, did timing chain tensioners and after putting the motor back together I can't get it to start. It turns over but it doesn't even sputter. there's no combustion what-so-ever. I have verified 3 times now that the mechanical timing is exactly how it should be. I have used the marks and counted links and it's perfect. The distributor is in correctly (not 180 off) and it's set to 20 btdc. There's fuel pressure in the rail and I spun the distributor and heard each injector click on. Each plug has been pulled and verified for spark. Battery has been freshly charged several times from all the cranking I've been doing. I put the ecu in diag mode and got 55 meaning everything's ok. I have tested all the necessary inputs and outputs for starting as outlined in the FSM and everything checks out. I have tried pouring a little fuel in the intake manifold, but nothing. I have tried holding the throttle full and part open while cranking. I have done everything I know of to do and it doesn't even want to sputter. It's not even close to starting. I don't have a compression tester here but like i said the head was decked and the head gasket torqued correctly, and when you bump the motor over it pops your hand off the plug hole so I don't believe that to be the problem. Even if it was compression it should still sputter. It should try to catch and run like ass but atleast do something! I don't even get the sound of it wanting to catch. Not even a backfire! I have fuel, spark, correct mechanincal and ignition timing and am at my wit's end here. It has new plugs and i just cleaned the fuel off of them from all the unsuccessful cranking and still nothing. I know i'm probably going to get responses like "well if it won't start then you don't have all those things" but everything has been verified several times over. Where do I go from here? Please help!

pr240sx · 06-09-2006, 07:21 AM

My bet is timing
could be valve timing or ignition timing
Check your distributor, place the piston 1 TDC, re-align distributor, check again.
You could have spark but 180 off from TDC.
Also, compression could be off, but even with super low compression the engine will start.

mjjstang · 06-09-2006, 08:32 AM

you say you have fuel but how do you know, just because the injectors are opening? your lines arent crossed are they. You can hear your fuel pump priming?

I wouldn't think it is this, but I hear it is absolutely required for starting, would be the ecu water temp sensor. I would think if you had a bad one, it would still start but run like crap, but it is just an idea, maybe check it per fsm.

Tomslide50 · 06-09-2006, 09:49 AM

The dist is not 180 off. I'm absolutely certain of that. I know I have fuel in the rail because I pulled off the line and got sprayed. lol. I also checked the coolant temp sensor. I checked the resistance with a DVM and the ecu is seeing it because it isn't throwing a code for it. I guess I'll check again to make sure the fuel lines aren't crossed but I don't think they are. thanks.

Frenzy13 · 06-09-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomslide50

The dist is not 180 off. I'm absolutely certain of that. I know I have fuel in the rail because I pulled off the line and got sprayed. lol. I also checked the coolant temp sensor. I checked the resistance with a DVM and the ecu is seeing it because it isn't throwing a code for it. I guess I'll check again to make sure the fuel lines aren't crossed but I don't think they are. thanks.

My fuel pump just went out on me and when I pulled line off the line, pressure was there and I got sprayed, but when I turned the key over no fuel came out at all. When my head gasket blew and I had NO compression it was just turning over but hella fast like. You could tell you had no compression. When my pump just went out it turned over normally, just wouldn't even try and fire up. I'm guessing it has something to do with fuel. Stick your head in the trunk, you should hear the pump priming. If you don't have a friend available, like I didn't, after you've been trying to start it for a while you should smell gasoline, if not its a good indicator that your having fuel delivery problems.

aznpoopy · 06-09-2006, 03:23 PM

play with the distributor as it cranks...

just because you line it up per FSM specs doesn't mean it's going to start. i learned this the hard way as well.

as you play with the distributor it should start to sputter more. that's the direction you want to rotate the dist in. if you run out of room you have to take it out and turn it over one tooth and reinstall. keep going until it starts.

NIK90s13 · 06-09-2006, 03:46 PM

With anzpoopy I agree, move the dist one tooth one way, if it doesnt start go the oppisite way. I ran into the same thing, I was sure it was on #1, heck it was pointing right at it , car wouldn't start, we moved it one tooth which looked off, it runs great. Timing is dead on now.

Tomslide50 · 06-09-2006, 08:39 PM

The situation was just like you described NIK90s13. It looked dead on but was retarded one tooth. Now it runs but won't stop pouring white smoke out the back. So now I have to see what the problem is. Head gasket is the only thing I can think of. The head and block can't be cracked cause they worked without smoking before. I don't have coolant routed to my intake anymore so that can't be it. I torqued the head down correctly but I guess the headgasket is the only thing it can be. I'm renting a radiator pressure tester tomorrow to confirm. thanks!

NIK90s13 · 06-09-2006, 08:48 PM

Your smoke could be from all the gas washing the chambers, and the new rings will need time to seal. After your pressure test, if it comes out ok, I would run it a littel wile and see if the smoke subsides.

Frenzy13 · 06-10-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIK90s13

Your smoke could be from all the gas washing the chambers, and the new rings will need time to seal. After your pressure test, if it comes out ok, I would run it a littel wile and see if the smoke subsides.

+1 here. When I put but my head back on and replaced the fuel rail it took about 30 min, to clear everything out.

06-09-2006, 08:32 AM	#3
mjjstang Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,654 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	you say you have fuel but how do you know, just because the injectors are opening? your lines arent crossed are they. You can hear your fuel pump priming? I wouldn't think it is this, but I hear it is absolutely required for starting, would be the ecu water temp sensor. I would think if you had a bad one, it would still start but run like crap, but it is just an idea, maybe check it per fsm. __________________ I was going to, but I can not think of a sig less than 75 characters.

06-08-2006, 09:01 PM	#1
Tomslide50 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 42 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I CANNOT figure this out! It's a 91 ka24de. I had the head rebuilt, replaced rings and rod bearings, did timing chain tensioners and after putting the motor back together I can't get it to start. It turns over but it doesn't even sputter. there's no combustion what-so-ever. I have verified 3 times now that the mechanical timing is exactly how it should be. I have used the marks and counted links and it's perfect. The distributor is in correctly (not 180 off) and it's set to 20 btdc. There's fuel pressure in the rail and I spun the distributor and heard each injector click on. Each plug has been pulled and verified for spark. Battery has been freshly charged several times from all the cranking I've been doing. I put the ecu in diag mode and got 55 meaning everything's ok. I have tested all the necessary inputs and outputs for starting as outlined in the FSM and everything checks out. I have tried pouring a little fuel in the intake manifold, but nothing. I have tried holding the throttle full and part open while cranking. I have done everything I know of to do and it doesn't even want to sputter. It's not even close to starting. I don't have a compression tester here but like i said the head was decked and the head gasket torqued correctly, and when you bump the motor over it pops your hand off the plug hole so I don't believe that to be the problem. Even if it was compression it should still sputter. It should try to catch and run like ass but atleast do something! I don't even get the sound of it wanting to catch. Not even a backfire! I have fuel, spark, correct mechanincal and ignition timing and am at my wit's end here. It has new plugs and i just cleaned the fuel off of them from all the unsuccessful cranking and still nothing. I know i'm probably going to get responses like "well if it won't start then you don't have all those things" but everything has been verified several times over. Where do I go from here? Please help!

06-09-2006, 07:21 AM	#2
pr240sx Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 627 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	My bet is timing could be valve timing or ignition timing Check your distributor, place the piston 1 TDC, re-align distributor, check again. You could have spark but 180 off from TDC. Also, compression could be off, but even with super low compression the engine will start.

06-09-2006, 09:49 AM	#4
Tomslide50 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 42 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The dist is not 180 off. I'm absolutely certain of that. I know I have fuel in the rail because I pulled off the line and got sprayed. lol. I also checked the coolant temp sensor. I checked the resistance with a DVM and the ecu is seeing it because it isn't throwing a code for it. I guess I'll check again to make sure the fuel lines aren't crossed but I don't think they are. thanks.

06-09-2006, 03:23 PM	#6
aznpoopy Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,013 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	play with the distributor as it cranks... just because you line it up per FSM specs doesn't mean it's going to start. i learned this the hard way as well. as you play with the distributor it should start to sputter more. that's the direction you want to rotate the dist in. if you run out of room you have to take it out and turn it over one tooth and reinstall. keep going until it starts.

06-09-2006, 03:46 PM	#7
NIK90s13 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: texas Age: 58 Posts: 471 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	With anzpoopy I agree, move the dist one tooth one way, if it doesnt start go the oppisite way. I ran into the same thing, I was sure it was on #1, heck it was pointing right at it , car wouldn't start, we moved it one tooth which looked off, it runs great. Timing is dead on now.

06-09-2006, 08:39 PM	#8
Tomslide50 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 42 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The situation was just like you described NIK90s13. It looked dead on but was retarded one tooth. Now it runs but won't stop pouring white smoke out the back. So now I have to see what the problem is. Head gasket is the only thing I can think of. The head and block can't be cracked cause they worked without smoking before. I don't have coolant routed to my intake anymore so that can't be it. I torqued the head down correctly but I guess the headgasket is the only thing it can be. I'm renting a radiator pressure tester tomorrow to confirm. thanks!

06-09-2006, 08:48 PM	#9
NIK90s13 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: texas Age: 58 Posts: 471 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Your smoke could be from all the gas washing the chambers, and the new rings will need time to seal. After your pressure test, if it comes out ok, I would run it a littel wile and see if the smoke subsides.