what do you think of a MK3 supra??

[SR240DET]

yeah... my friend is getting a MK3 supra... and i would just like to see your opinion.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/eh.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':eh:'> &nbsp;i think its a fast car and all... but it looks like a second gen RX-7 rip off.... with a wide body kit or somthing... &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hmmm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hmmm:'> oh yeah... has anybody raced one before??? and what was the outcome? <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'>

[KiDyNomiTe]

I hear they have a gasket problem (I think thats it) so tell your friend to get that replaced as soon as possible unless the previous owner already did. I was considering getting them, but the interior looks wierd as hell, too old school for me. The worst part about the car is the wieght, and the fact that it prolly has high miles on the turbo to. Just make sure a mechanic checks it out.

[sleek240]

i have a 88 supra turbo also &nbsp;besides my s14 turbo.. yes they do have fualty head gasket problem....as for mine i'm doing a engine swap to a 2JZ motor and a single turbo conversion.. as the wieght &nbsp;yes they heavy but thats get cured with lost of boost... and yes its hase a wide body stance ..i love it ..thats my opinion

[Fresh 240SX]

Yea you might want to tell him to get a HKS metal Head gasket.... and have it torqued down tighter than stock specs... MK3 supra was my first car and yea the interiors are fugly but you cant beat the MA70.... &nbsp;send him this way for some good info

Supra Owners Group International

[KiDyNomiTe]

sleek have u checked ur PM inbox lately? I sent a PM about meet read it

[SR240DET]

yes... he is aware of the head gasket.. thanks... but if i didnt know any better.. and it didnt have that cool wide body look.. i would get it confused with a 2nd gen rx-7.... but how reliable do you think a 12 year &nbsp;old 20,000 mile old motor with over 400rwhp gonna be?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>? thats his plans.... i suggested a 1jz <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> &nbsp;but he thinks its too much trouble... but do you think the 1jz into a mk3 would be like a sr into a 240sx sleek240<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> thanks for the reply's guys..

[SR240DET]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SR240DET @ July 14 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">but how reliable do you think a 12 year old "20,000 mile"old motor with over 400rwhp gonna be?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
120,000*** my bad.. i ment to put 120,000

[Fresh 240SX]

Heres how i see it.....

If your friend wants to put a 2JZ-GTE into a MA70 why not take the money you would spend on the 2JZ and the money on the old supra and buy something better...... Old supras still do have potential but they are basicly heavy, ugly, box....

Why not get a Supercharged AW11..... First gen MR2....
RWD 1.6L 4AGZE
get someone to make you a turbo setup for it and run it twincharged.. you could get huge power and better times from a AW11 and you would be happier with it because IMO the 4AGZE is WAY more reliable than the 7M-GTE from the Mk.3 supra....

First off, why would anyone twincharge, and what is twincharging. Twincharging is using a turbo charger and a super charger on the same engine. &nbsp;The supercharger
is a roots type positive displacement unit that boost the same at all engine RPM, with minor differences due to the engine's VE as RPM changes. &nbsp;So why have 2 pumps?
Why make something complicated much more complicated? &nbsp;well, the SC will be feeding the engine air at low RPM's. &nbsp;this means that the SC boosted motor is pushing out more
exhaust gas than a similar sized NA motor. &nbsp;for example our beloved 4agze at 8 psi is putting out the same amount of exhaust as a 2.5l NA motor. &nbsp;So lets look at the DSM guys. they have some big turbo's that spool up in the 4-5k range for unstreetable BIG power levels. &nbsp;On the twincharge car, these turbo's should spool up nicely at a usable RPM. &nbsp;

There are a few different plumbing possibilities with both blowers. &nbsp;There are even more so when you add a bypass valve into the mix. &nbsp;Some arrangements dont make any sense.
for example, if you have the SC blow into the TC then into the motor, when the TC spool sup, it creates a vacuum on the inlet side. &nbsp;this means the SC is feeding air to a vacuum. &nbsp;
The SC only lets a set amount of air past it, so the turbo is basically worthless in this setup. &nbsp;Another arrangement is the two blowers side by side. &nbsp;this arrangement is crap too
because the SC will be boosting and pushing air backwards thru the turbo. &nbsp;The motor may never see boost. &nbsp; A very interesting arrangement is the turbo first, then the SC,
then the motor. &nbsp;This is diagram 1. &nbsp;I call this arrangement very interesting because as far as I have been able to tell, the HKS kit worked this way. &nbsp;So you have a SC that takes 1.2 L of air every time it spins. &nbsp;If you feed it boosted air at say 8 psi, it take 1.2 liter of 22.7 absolute psi air and places it in the space of .8 liters, making for 34 psi absolute aitr on the other side of the SC. &nbsp;this is 19.35 psi boost. &nbsp;The problem with this setup is that you cannot disengage the SC at high rpm and avoid pumping power into it to compress air. &nbsp;Another problem is you still compress air with the 55% efficient SC making more heat than just a turbo alone. &nbsp;I have also heard that the SC lobes have a teflon coating that can be destroyed by too much turbo heat. &nbsp;so why did HKS do the kit this way? &nbsp;Because it was very easy to do would be my guess. &nbsp;The arrangement I lik ebest is the SC pumping into the Turbo, then into the engine, but with the addition of a bypass valve around the SC. &nbsp;At low RPM when the SC is pumping air into the motor, the boost pressure keeps the bypass closed. &nbsp;teh motor works like a regular SC motor. &nbsp;During this time the boosted motor is working on spooling up the turbo. &nbsp;Once the turbo begins spooling it creates a strong vacuum on its inlet. &nbsp;this vacuum sucks all the available air the SC can deliver. &nbsp;Since the SC does not compress air internally, the air is not heated, and the crank is not providing the power to compress the air anymore. &nbsp;the vacuum also serves to pull the bypass valve open allowing the turbo to suck in as much air as it wants. &nbsp;In this case you set the turbo wastegate to the high boost level you want, say 20 psi. &nbsp;There is no real need to disengage the SC since it is basically just free spinning. &nbsp;All the compression is done by the 70% efficient turbo. &nbsp;There is no transition to worry about from SC to turbo becasue the bypass valve will end up taking care of it. &nbsp;Say the driver is driving with low throttle input. &nbsp;The SC never engages an the bypass valve will be held open by engine vacuum. &nbsp;Then the driver gives it a bit of gas, and the SC engages. &nbsp;The SC produces boost that closes off the bypass valve and feeds the motor excess air. &nbsp;If the gas is held down the turbo spools up and the bypass valve opens up again to supply the extra air.

See its pretty simple ive considered it..... BUT the lack of seats and storage in the MR2 is what eventually kicked my dreams in the sack..... ah well..... i still love toyotas.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[SR240DET]

Whoa… Looks like we have a genius on the bored…. thats some good info Fresh 240SX..

[Fresh 240SX]

Thanks...... see i was HUGE on Toyotas before i got into Nissans..... actually when i lost the Toyota attitude or TOYOTUDE as its known... basicly i dismissed anything that was not a Toyota product as shit.... althouth i respected most good cars like 300ZX... S2000...Vette.... you know.. i just dismissed anything else.... but i have fallen for nissan... i just dont know as much about em as toyota's...... as for the Twincharged 4AGZE..... ive read about guys getting 400RWPH no prob from a 1.6L that just cripples anything because its so light.....

[SR240DET]

hmm what do you think of a project 95 corolla with a mr2 engine?!?! im i crazy <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> ?? or do you think im on to a bad ass sleeper??? of course when i say project.. i mean putting the engine in the trunk.... <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'>

[Fresh 240SX]

Well i dont know about putting it in the trunk thats gonna cost you.... so if you wanted to make a '95 corolla which is F/F or Front Engine & Front Wheel drive <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
you can dismiss any MR2 engine because they are RWD.....

What you would want.... would be an engine from a 1990-1993 Celica Turbo.. which would be a 3S-GTE....

200Hp & 200ft-lbs of torque.... not bad at all for a stock set up especally if u threw it in a corolla

LOL

[KiDyNomiTe]

Don't get an MKI MR2, they are butt ugly <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/crazy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':crazy:'> , but thats juss MHO, I guess if you get over the looks its a great car, or you could just tell him to get an MR2 and do a JDM Engine swap, IIRC the JDM MR2 gets 240 or 250 HP.

[SR240DET]

lol yeah... but i want the my bro's corolla to be AWD or RWD.... hahaha awd and mid-ship corolla's makes me giggle on the inside... &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/hehe.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':hehe:'> ok... :side project: &nbsp;im going to the junk yard and im gonna look for these parts.... &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sly.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':sly:'> ok... its late.. and im getting crazy ideas again...

[adey]

I'm not very well educated about the Toyota line, but have heard a little bit here and there.
Firstly I'm wondering if the MkIV (?) supras (the late model -- '93-'96 or whatever) came with any engines OTHER than the 2JZ-GTE. Weren't there NA supras at one point? Sort of like the na 300ZXs and the TT versions.

I've also heard of people swapping 3S-GTE engines into Supras, and this is listed as a pretty crazy swap. If I'm not mistaken, the 3S-GTE came stock in the JDM SW-20 MR2, but also (?? ??) came in some Supras, as the I-6 2JZ-GTE. (please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Since I'm hearing ppl talk about putting a 4banger 3S-GTE in to replace the USDM 6 cylinder, I'm assuming they're only swapping out the n/a 6s, not the 2JZ-GTE 6's. Is that correct?

If then the 2JZ-GTE is so great, and people have still 'yet to find out JUST how much the bottom end can take' (so many supra ppl say that) why on earth does Endless/Zeal use the 3S-GTE in their GT300 (or one of those races) Supra full-race car? Is it because that class only allows 4cylinder engines but the Supra body is just more aerodynamic than the MR2 (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what the 3S-GTE originally came in)? Or does the 4 cylinder 3S-GTE actually have 'more potential'?


Cliff's notes:
did Supras come in naturally aspirated form?
did Supras in Japan come stock w/ 3S-GTE AND 2JZ-GTE?
Is the 3S-GTE 'better' or is the 2JZ-GTE 'better'?
Why is the 3S-GTE such a crazy swap when the 2JZ-GTE is so highly revered (or at least more so than the 3sgte)?

[TheTimanator]

I can answer these questions, at least I think....

did Supras come in naturally aspirated form?
Yes, I think they are 2JZ-GE?
did Supras in Japan come stock w/ 3S-GTE AND 2JZ-GTE?
No
Is the 3S-GTE 'better' or is the 2JZ-GTE 'better'?
depends on what you are looking for
Why is the 3S-GTE such a crazy swap when the 2JZ-GTE is so highly revered (or at least more so than the 3sgte)? Because, from what I understand, the people who swap in the 3S-GTE are going for Top Speed, such as Top Secret. You don't need much torque for top speed cars as massive amounts of torque for launching are not needed. Plus there is always the respect thing ie. doing something nobody else does. I am sure there are other things, but somebody else will have to help you there.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If then the 2JZ-GTE is so great, and people have still 'yet to find out JUST how much the bottom end can take' (so many supra ppl say that) why on earth does Endless/Zeal use the 3S-GTE in their GT300 (or one of those races) Supra full-race car? Is it because that class only allows 4cylinder engines but the Supra body is just more aerodynamic than the MR2 (which, correct me if I'm wrong, is what the 3S-GTE originally came in)? Or does the 4 cylinder 3S-GTE actually have 'more potential'? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> [B]IIRC there is a restriction on engine size and the 3S-GTE is the best size for that race

as always, please somebdoy correct me if I'm wrong <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[adey]

Thanks for the info timanator.
What I can't understand yet though, is how a maxed out 3S-GTE (4 cyl) can pump out more hp than a maxed out 2JZ-GTE even if it's just for top speed (and from top secret! ... I suppose that's where the RB26DETT comes in, huh.)
Would they do it to save weight? I think I'm just one confused mofo!

[Fresh 240SX]

Well the size of the engine does not really matter when your talking about how much HP you can make as where how well you can use it... 2JZ-GTE full out would make a truck load or torque as the 3S is a small displacement and the powerband would have all the peak torque at a really high RMP making it useable and not just spin my tires off the line deal...

Anyways....

The JDM 4AGE is just a 20 valve version of the USDM.... as the JDM 4AGZE is a 20v engine as well with a ceramic coating on the pistons that aid the engine in making boost.

Im pretty sure the JDM supras used the 2JZ-GTTE engine with ceramic turbos....

[toddnappi]

my mk1 mr2 n/a weighs about 2200 without me in it... and thats pretty heavy... its gonna get gutted in about a year and probably will be down to 1900... but im still gonna be rockin the 105 hp 95 tq engine...