How much water is too much, - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

DamnedButDetermined · 11-12-2002, 10:54 AM

I am thinking of taking out the orange turn signals on my S13 hatch, and fabricate a fiberglass ram air system out of those holes.  I am concerned however about when it rains.  Water will be comming directly into the ram holes, and might get sucked all the way up to the throttle body.  So i am wondering how much water normally gets sucked into the engine during a heavy down pour with a CAI?  I know a small amount has to get sucked up do to the velocity of the air comming in, but i can't safely estimate how much.  If anyone has any ideas please feel free to comment.

If i can get this system to fit and can actually learn how to mold fiberglass, i will take pictures of it installed for everyone to see.  I am going to poste a topic in the off topic forum about molding fiberglass if anyone knows about that!

thanks,
ethan

*LanceS13* · 11-12-2002, 11:57 AM

It won't suck up enough to hurt anything.  Small droplets (like rain) will simply vaporize and move on through the engine as inert gas...if they even get sucked that far up the intake.  Water is alot harder to move than air.  It's only bad when you suck in enough water to fill your compressed volume of the combustion chamber.  This much water will not vaporize...and it won't compress like air either, which is where things get nasty.  
Why not just use the grill vents?  That way you can still pass inspection.

AKADriver · 11-12-2002, 12:21 PM

I'm thinking he has an early S13, which doesn't have the lower side vents.

DBD you might consider cutting holes in the fascia below the signals instead of using the signal holes themselves.  Keep in mind that the signals are actually almost set right into the bumper brace which fills almost that entire area.  There isn't much room for ducts to pass through.  Others have had success with holes cut lower in the fascia, in fact this is what Nissan did to provide airflow for the intercooler in the turbo '89-'90 180SX.

I've never personally known anyone who has hydrolocked an engine.  You have to fill a cylinder with water; water drops will be trapped by the filter and water vapor will pass right through the engine as it's a normal component of air anyway.

driftingpanda · 11-12-2002, 12:37 PM

actually, i heard just one tablespoon of water can hydro-lock your engine.  since water is pretty much incompressible, i guess it doesn't take much to seize an engine.  its very difficult for a cai to ingest water, the filter has to be pretty much submerged in water.  it's usually the water vapors that condense into droplets inside the piping that causes problems.  i don't think you'd have a problem running ram air, but it might be a good idea to put up a splash shield before the filter.

danny

Yoshi · 11-12-2002, 01:10 PM

AEM makes a water filter addon for intakes. Most everyone carries AEM stuff; problem solved <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

DamnedButDetermined · 11-12-2002, 02:00 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoshi @ Nov. 12 2002,2:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AEM makes a water filter addon for intakes. Most everyone carries AEM stuff; problem solved <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Are you talking about the By-Pass valve?  If so then that would defeat the purposs of a RAM intake system.  All the bilt up pressure would escape through the valve!  Speaking of valves, shouldn't the word valve be reserved for something that opens and closes?

AKADriver · 11-12-2002, 02:39 PM

"ram air" systems don't really build measurable amounts of positive pressure.  They're more for COLD air than forced air.

*LanceS13* · 11-12-2002, 03:26 PM

The bypass valve is vacuum actuated.  Atmospheric and positive pressure keep it closed.  It does open and close, so it is a valve.  The only way it will work is if the entire cross-sectional area of the intake track is blocked by water, creating a vacuum as the air in front of the water is sucked into the engine faster than the water can be pulled up the intake track.  This can only happen if the entire filter is submerged.  So unless your car is an amphibious vehicle, the bypass valve is a useless restriction IMHO.

And if you think about it, the compressed volume of the chamber probably isn't much more than a teaspoon.  But you still have to suck up alot of water to get that much in there during a single piston stroke.

11-12-2002, 11:57 AM	#2
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It won't suck up enough to hurt anything.  Small droplets (like rain) will simply vaporize and move on through the engine as inert gas...if they even get sucked that far up the intake.  Water is alot harder to move than air.  It's only bad when you suck in enough water to fill your compressed volume of the combustion chamber.  This much water will not vaporize...and it won't compress like air either, which is where things get nasty.   Why not just use the grill vents?  That way you can still pass inspection. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

11-12-2002, 12:37 PM	#4
driftingpanda Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: so cal Posts: 593 Trader Rating: (24) Feedback Score: 24 reviews	actually, i heard just one tablespoon of water can hydro-lock your engine.  since water is pretty much incompressible, i guess it doesn't take much to seize an engine.  its very difficult for a cai to ingest water, the filter has to be pretty much submerged in water.  it's usually the water vapors that condense into droplets inside the piping that causes problems.  i don't think you'd have a problem running ram air, but it might be a good idea to put up a splash shield before the filter. danny __________________ PM me about limited edition Pink GodziRa Sticker packages!

11-12-2002, 01:10 PM	#5
Yoshi Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Washington Age: 48 Posts: 3,003 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: Yoshi Feedback Score: 1 reviews	AEM makes a water filter addon for intakes. Most everyone carries AEM stuff; problem solved <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> __________________ www.360realms.com/S13-S15

11-12-2002, 02:00 PM	#6
DamnedButDetermined Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Jax, Fl Age: 43 Posts: 637 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Yoshi @ Nov. 12 2002,2:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">AEM makes a water filter addon for intakes. Most everyone carries AEM stuff; problem solved <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Are you talking about the By-Pass valve?  If so then that would defeat the purposs of a RAM intake system.  All the bilt up pressure would escape through the valve!  Speaking of valves, shouldn't the word valve be reserved for something that opens and closes?

11-12-2002, 03:26 PM	#8
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The bypass valve is vacuum actuated.  Atmospheric and positive pressure keep it closed.  It does open and close, so it is a valve.  The only way it will work is if the entire cross-sectional area of the intake track is blocked by water, creating a vacuum as the air in front of the water is sucked into the engine faster than the water can be pulled up the intake track.  This can only happen if the entire filter is submerged.  So unless your car is an amphibious vehicle, the bypass valve is a useless restriction IMHO. And if you think about it, the compressed volume of the chamber probably isn't much more than a teaspoon.  But you still have to suck up alot of water to get that much in there during a single piston stroke. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

11-12-2002, 10:54 AM	#1
DamnedButDetermined Zilvia Addict Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Jax, Fl Age: 43 Posts: 637 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I am thinking of taking out the orange turn signals on my S13 hatch, and fabricate a fiberglass ram air system out of those holes.  I am concerned however about when it rains.  Water will be comming directly into the ram holes, and might get sucked all the way up to the throttle body.  So i am wondering how much water normally gets sucked into the engine during a heavy down pour with a CAI?  I know a small amount has to get sucked up do to the velocity of the air comming in, but i can't safely estimate how much.  If anyone has any ideas please feel free to comment. If i can get this system to fit and can actually learn how to mold fiberglass, i will take pictures of it installed for everyone to see.  I am going to poste a topic in the off topic forum about molding fiberglass if anyone knows about that! thanks, ethan

11-12-2002, 12:21 PM	#3
AKADriver Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 43 Posts: 3,517 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	I'm thinking he has an early S13, which doesn't have the lower side vents. DBD you might consider cutting holes in the fascia below the signals instead of using the signal holes themselves.  Keep in mind that the signals are actually almost set right into the bumper brace which fills almost that entire area.  There isn't much room for ducts to pass through.  Others have had success with holes cut lower in the fascia, in fact this is what Nissan did to provide airflow for the intercooler in the turbo '89-'90 180SX. I've never personally known anyone who has hydrolocked an engine.  You have to fill a cylinder with water; water drops will be trapped by the filter and water vapor will pass right through the engine as it's a normal component of air anyway.

11-12-2002, 02:39 PM	#7
AKADriver Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 43 Posts: 3,517 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	"ram air" systems don't really build measurable amounts of positive pressure.  They're more for COLD air than forced air.