What makes one coil over different from the next?

[SinisterSntra91]

I have searched, and all the threads I have read just gave more or less a basic review on each coilover, didnt clarify why one was better than the other. So can anyone clear this up for me? What makes one coilover different from the next? What makes one better than the other? I am currently looking at coilover setups, the only difference I can come up with is the springs. Im not going to need the springs for what I am doing, so other than the springs what do I look for?

[driven_]

quality?
Lol.

sorry, i'm quite useless.

[lalberti]

you pay a higher price for better (closer to oem) fitment where they bolt up to your spindles. also for what components and quality of metals are used. you pay for more precise adjustability. Higher prices translate (often at least) to better durability, greater adjustment range and better engineering, and in some cases just a brand name.

[SinisterSntra91]

Originally Posted by lalberti

you pay a higher price for better (closer to oem) fitment where they bolt up to your spindles. also for what components and quality of metals are used. you pay for more precise adjustability. Higher prices translate (often at least) to better durability, greater adjustment range and better engineering, and in some cases just a brand name.

Ok so next question I have is why would someone buy a used set? Dont they wear out like struts? If they do wear out can you buy just the strut portion? Excuse me if I am not using the correct terminology for coil overs.

[Silverbullet]

the term coilover is just an off the shelf strut, spring, and camber plate combo.

the biggest thing you want to worry about when looking at coilovers are the dampers (struts) used in the coilovers. The brands most ppl buy aren't considered great dampers, but ultra slam your ride.

Your right about the used coilovers. The dampers wear out eventually. Ususally if they are leaking, the factory can rebuild them. Always make sure they provide a dyno sheet after the rebuild!

[SinisterSntra91]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

the biggest thing you want to worry about when looking at coilovers are the dampers used in the coilovers. The brands most ppl buy aren't considered great dampers, but ultra slam your ride.

Your right about the used coilovers. The dampers wear out eventually. Ususally if they are leaking, the factory can rebuild them. Always make sure they provide a dyno sheet after the rebuild!

So is it smarter to buy a new set or cheaper to buy a used set and have them rebuilt?

[Silverbullet]

it depends how much you get the bad ones for.

For instance, i picked up a pair of Koni 86 shocks for $30. One of them is blown. I'm willing to spend the time to send them off for rebuilding, and since they are there, i'm going to get custom valving on it too so it was a good deal for me.

[Bigsyke]

its all in the valving.

[Fries]

Out curiosity, other than the dope slammed look [which I enjoy and my daily participates in] why don't konis with the proper springs work for the sport of drifting?

[undesiredshoe]

Originally Posted by Fries

Out curiosity, other than the dope slammed look [which I enjoy and my daily participates in] why don't konis with the proper springs work for the sport of drifting?

But they do....

[98koukile]

because they help with traction, which is the opposite ideology of drifting. They could work for drift if setup right but a lot of guys like running super stiff super sprung setup to slide out easier

[clark]

judging from where i see your car going (i stay updated on your thread) look like you're a ride quality type guy. going through all of this trouble making your interior beautiful and basically building an brand new car from what it looks like.

it's pretty much about the community. talk to people who have had coilovers before. you can tell if someone is knowledgeable and have had a few different sets already.

try to find reviews that have people ranting/raving about comfortable ride quality, while still maintaining better handling than any oem, spring+shock combo.

you DONT have to pay out the ass for a nice set of coils but it's a costly upgrade that was hard for me to save up for...

it's really personal preference.

i bought my coilovers to lower my ride and for tighter handling. i could care less if i feel every nook in the road, eventually, i'll probably grow out of it and get sick of it, but now, i'm living the dream.

but the question you asked is mildly vague. why are there different brands of milk? why do some beers come in cans and others in bottles, now there's a fucking aluminum bottle. why can't i just go to the pharmacy and buy regular soap/shampoo without getting fucking confused? why does the iphone cost so much when there are somehwat equivalent phones for less than half the price?

ya dig?

[SinisterSntra91]

Originally Posted by clark

judging from where i see your car going (i stay updated on your thread) look like you're a ride quality type guy. going through all of this trouble making your interior beautiful and basically building an brand new car from what it looks like.

Well I am a ride quality type of guy, but I want something I can ride on thats comfortable but it can be raw if I choose, which is why I am going with an air bag coilover combo. Which seems best for me because I can choose from comfort or raw by adjusting air pressure with a touch of the button. Also I like the idea of being able to adjust ride height to keep from scraping when needed without having to get out of the car and do it manually, lazy maybe but smart yes.

Originally Posted by clark

i bought my coilovers to lower my ride and for tighter handling. i could care less if i feel every nook in the road, eventually, i'll probably grow out of it and get sick of it, but now, i'm living the dream.

This was my attitude and never thought twice about it till I got use to my daily driver my 06 Frontier, and that truck spoiled me. I got back into my old sentra which is now my brothers car and that thing was a rattle trap. I loved the way it handled but the rattles and hums drove me nuts, and I hated having to watch everything I drove over in fear of scraping or damaging the body, I love running over crap with my truck not worrying about if im going to bottom out or not. Loving both sides of the spectrum I decided I wanted a setup that I can have both depending on the mood. I think an air ride coilover combo will give me just that.

Originally Posted by clark

but the question you asked is mildly vague. why are there different brands of milk? why do some beers come in cans and others in bottles, now there's a fucking aluminum bottle. why can't i just go to the pharmacy and buy regular soap/shampoo without getting fucking confused? why does the iphone cost so much when there are somehwat equivalent phones for less than half the price?

ya dig?

Yes and no everything you listed above you can see the obvious differences in and they are all sensory related, taste, smell, feel etc. What I am trying to figure out is the difference in the spring, because if thats the case Ill just buy a cheaper set of coilovers as I will be discarding the spring. Or is it other external components or is it solely internal?

[98koukile]

When it comes to ride quality with coilovers, the dampening is definitely the easiest thing to blame for ride quality. Sure you have a stiff spring on megan street coils but I know people that have a stiffer spring on konis with a much softer ride. You get the people that want to slam their car, and don't want to bottom out, all of a sudden there's no cushion available. I think you would be much better off with your airbag setup and a custom front housing with inserts. The only significant thing I can see you needing is a helper spring in the rear as I don't really know of many airbags that are more than 5-6" by themselves. Depending on which route you went in the rear you could have 3-4" of available adjustability for anything from hard parking/freeway driving to gravel driveways/maintenance.

This doesn't mean a set of zeals or bilsteins couldn't blow konis out of the water, but with your idea for a setup and the limited technology in the front suspension geometry you would be better off building something to suit your needs

[SinisterSntra91]

Originally Posted by 98koukile

When it comes to ride quality with coilovers, the dampening is definitely the easiest thing to blame for ride quality. Sure you have a stiff spring on megan street coils but I know people that have a stiffer spring on konis with a much softer ride. You get the people that want to slam their car, and don't want to bottom out, all of a sudden there's no cushion available. I think you would be much better off with your airbag setup and a custom front housing with inserts. The only significant thing I can see you needing is a helper spring in the rear as I don't really know of many airbags that are more than 5-6" by themselves. Depending on which route you went in the rear you could have 3-4" of available adjustability for anything from hard parking/freeway driving to gravel driveways/maintenance.

This doesn't mean a set of zeals or bilsteins couldn't blow konis out of the water, but with your idea for a setup and the limited technology in the front suspension geometry you would be better off building something to suit your needs

Well the bags I am looking at are 4" deflated, 9 1/4" inflated if that makes any difference, maybe I am better off going with a strut bag combo as I really wont mess with the heights too much other than adjusting air bag pressures I mean I wont drift this car in anyway, so maybe coil overs arent the best way to go for where I am aiming.... Maybe I should just save the coilovers for a track car when I build one some day. Hmm so much to think about....

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by 98koukile

because they help with traction, which is the opposite ideology of drifting. They could work for drift if setup right but a lot of guys like running super stiff super sprung setup to slide out easier

Actually here is where all the misconceptions start. Yes you want to eliminate body roll to slide the car. Though a lot of drifters have started to come to the conclusion that super slammed and overly stiff do not always spell the best drift set up. Look no further than Pro Rally. Or even Super Modifieds and 1/4 midgets. The later of which a lot of them use Koni race shocks and are fully sideways 85% of the time. Truth be told a good drifter wants traction in front so he can hold his lines . The reason you do not see Koni's being used much is because most drifters are on the JDM coilover hype bandwagon. Yup I said and its true. The Pro's from Japan usually get hooked up and Japanese tracks and roads are smoother. The Americans just follow suit. Hell Rhys Millen runs Penske'S! He pays for them as well. I can gurantee a Penske is going to give you as much traction as a Koni does or more. Penske's are pretty much straight race only dampers.

[luftrofl]

Originally Posted by SinisterSntra91

So is it smarter to buy a new set or cheaper to buy a used set and have them rebuilt?

Both

Originally Posted by 98koukile

because they help with traction, which is the opposite ideology of drifting. They could work for drift if setup right but a lot of guys like running super stiff super sprung setup to slide out easier

You've less control if you rely on poor suspension reaction to bumps to get sideways.

[98koukile]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Actually here is where all the misconceptions start. Yes you want to eliminate body roll to slide the car. Though a lot of drifters have started to come to the conclusion that super slammed and overly stiff do not always spell the best drift set up. Look no further than Pro Rally. Or even Super Modifieds and 1/4 midgets. The later of which a lot of them use Koni race shocks and are fully sideways 85% of the time. Truth be told a good drifter wants traction in front so he can hold his lines . The reason you do not see Koni's being used much is because most drifters are on the JDM coilover hype bandwagon. Yup I said and its true. The Pro's from Japan usually get hooked up and Japanese tracks and roads are smoother. The Americans just follow suit. Hell Rhys Millen runs Penske'S! He pays for them as well. I can gurantee a Penske is going to give you as much traction as a Koni does or more. Penske's are pretty much straight race only dampers.

Thats exactly what I'm saying, just worded poorly. Most guys don't recommend the konis because they hold this misconception that there's grip suspension and slip suspension. We all know which one holds the majority vote here.

[mmdb]

To answer your question check out this website...

DGs Autocross Secrets aka Autocross to Win

There's a lot that goes into a good set of coilovers. Mostly, their main purpose is to provide repeatable, consistent dampening assuming their valved to a certain rate of springs. The higher end brands: moton, jrz, penske, ohlins, koni will provide precise and repeatable dampening characteristics.

[98koukile]

Originally Posted by SinisterSntra91

Well the bags I am looking at are 4" deflated, 9 1/4" inflated if that makes any difference, maybe I am better off going with a strut bag combo as I really wont mess with the heights too much other than adjusting air bag pressures I mean I wont drift this car in anyway, so maybe coil overs arent the best way to go for where I am aiming.... Maybe I should just save the coilovers for a track car when I build one some day. Hmm so much to think about....

Those would be perfect for the rears imo if using a koni yellow or a bilstein rear strut. For the fronts I think Grant could probably find you something from Japan. I know he had some nice looking shorter bags on used coils for sale and he said he picked them up for around 250 each bag. Then you could get away with using the double adjustable konis up front. I'm not really too sure when those dampers get too low to operate properly to be honest with you, I do know the bilsteins have a huge range of travel though.

[Silverbullet]

Originally Posted by drift freaq

Actually here is where all the misconceptions start. Yes you want to eliminate body roll to slide the car. Though a lot of drifters have started to come to the conclusion that super slammed and overly stiff do not always spell the best drift set up. Look no further than Pro Rally. Or even Super Modifieds and 1/4 midgets. The later of which a lot of them use Koni race shocks and are fully sideways 85% of the time. Truth be told a good drifter wants traction in front so he can hold his lines . The reason you do not see Koni's being used much is because most drifters are on the JDM coilover hype bandwagon. Yup I said and its true. The Pro's from Japan usually get hooked up and Japanese tracks and roads are smoother. The Americans just follow suit. Hell Rhys Millen runs Penske'S! He pays for them as well. I can gurantee a Penske is going to give you as much traction as a Koni does or more. Penske's are pretty much straight race only dampers.

He nailed it. Super slamming also completely obliterates the geometry of the arms from how they are supposed to rotate. i also wanted to add drifting isn't just traction up front. You want max traction in the front and the rear. Breaking rear traction is easy. Swing the car hard, gassing, ebrake, clutch kicking: they all work. Its not a problem at all, but when you need precise control or when correcting urself that tire to ground contact is manditory.


In another words, if your relying on poor damping and hard tires to loose traction around a turn, whats going to happen when the surface is just slightly uneven right where you want to regain traction? Chance of spinning (least of your worries), going off the track, or even hitting something.

Koni is good stuff. They are used on real race cars and are affordable.

[Brian]

ehhh, most of the coilovers are just made in the same place anyways.

here company X, build your coilover with your own colors.

of course, there are some exceptions.