No return on clutch pedal... huh? / SR don't crank!

[kazuo]

So, for those of you who are unaware, I am having two huge-ass issues keeping me from driving around in my lovely SR-powered S13.

The first, being that the clutch pedal has no return on it. That is to say that if I push the clutch pedal down, it stays down, and thats the end of it.

Apparently, my slave cylinder went bad, as the piston does not retract, no matter what you do to the pedal; also, there was a LOT of brake fluid leaking out from around the piston on the slave cylinder if you pushed the pedal down.

So, I replaced the slave with the one off my SR half cut (the one I was using was from the KA), and after pushing the clutch pedal a few times, still no pressure, and the piston also popped out, with brake fluid leaking out from around it.

I had to refill the resevior with brake fluid both times since each time i pushed the pedal down, you could SEE the brake fluid vanishing from the resevior, like a ****ing fart in the wind.

I'm ****ed off and I apparently have two broken slave cylinders. ARGH!

Anyone have any ideas?

Part II: The SR Doesn't Crank
Okay, so all the wiring is good. I know this for a fact, okay? The electronics work, the lights work, everything works. The alternator wiring is good, but the starter wiring has me kinda scratching my head.

I would assume there is a live wire AND a ground. However, I see the live wire, its in the correct spot.. but i dont see a ground. I see a thin black cable, but It doesnt seem to be going anywhere except onto the motor itself. Is this the ground? If so, would the starter be grounded to the motor, then?

If I try to crank the motor, all I hear is a click, and nothing. No cranky sound, just a click and thats that.

Could it be that it is not grounded properly? I have yet to try using a tester on it, but I will sooner than later.

Any ideas are appreciated. If you live in the Bay Area and wanna come help me, let me know.

Thanks

[philipwight]

have you checked the battery to see if it has enough juice to crank the car? Just a little something to check.

[kalieaire]

Originally posted by kazuo
Part II: The SR Doesn't Crank
Okay, so all the wiring is good. I know this for a fact, okay? The electronics work, the lights work, everything works. The alternator wiring is good, but the starter wiring has me kinda scratching my head.

I would assume there is a live wire AND a ground. However, I see the live wire, its in the correct spot.. but i dont see a ground. I see a thin black cable, but It doesnt seem to be going anywhere except onto the motor itself. Is this the ground? If so, would the starter be grounded to the motor, then?

If I try to crank the motor, all I hear is a click, and nothing. No cranky sound, just a click and thats that.

Could it be that it is not grounded properly? I have yet to try using a tester on it, but I will sooner than later.

Any ideas are appreciated. If you live in the Bay Area and wanna come help me, let me know.

Thanks [/B]

check to see if power is going to the starter..

From my point of view, I had a similar case, I heard clicking as well, I checked the power to the starter and there was power. my question was WTF. why won't it start?

IT's possible that your starter's armature corroded a little and seized up. Your relay works, (it's just a guess at this point since you haven't tested for continuity) and your starter solenoid is busted or something to that end.

Basically, just take out the starter, take it apart and look for messed up parts. if you find any, go and buy some replacement parts, usually brushes and armatures and other crap. The total replacement shouldn't cost more than 30 bux I'd imagine. That's how much it cost for me to rebuild my ford taurus's starter.

that's my guess to what your problemo is.

[kalieaire]

oh yeah, where u live???

[DuffMan]

There is no ground on a starter. It's ground through the engine block. 2nd, clutch slave cyls are about $10. But if you broke 2 like that, maybe something else is wrong.

[nrcooled]

It's funny how much this has come up!

In respose to the clutch problem:
GET RID OF YOUR DAMPNER! If and when you get air in them you can't bleed it out due to the fact that the small @ss lines running to it can't bleed the air out of the big @ss line that loops from it. Remove it and you should get your pedal back.

I had the same exact problem when I changed my clutch and replaced the MC and SC thinking that was the problem when all I had to do was take the stupid dampner off. Not to mention I took the tranny off again to recheck to see if everything was correctly installed

[kazuo]

philipwight, I'm like 99% sure there's enough juice in the battery to get the motor to turn over. Just in case, I'll test it with the trusty battery tester in the garage.

kalieaire, I'll probably test the damn thing tonight or tomorrow. Do you remember offhand what the tetser should show if the starter is working properly? I Live in San Francisco... (hint: you should come help me! Free lunch!)

DuffMan, ya, a friend of mien told me that they are grounded to the motor, so I figured that wasn't an issue. Nissan Parts has slave cylinders for like $30 (!), and i went through two of them... sigh. I'm going to see if I can find one of those rebuild kits (Kragen doesn't seem to have any in stock).

nrcooled. forgive my ignorance, but what is this dampner you speak of? If I do this and it works, you are my new hero. I will send you any food item of your choice in the mail. Seriously.

Thanks a lot of the help guys

[TheTicTac]

I don't know if it's just me, but don't you need to have your transmission working before you can start the motor? I'm not sure if you can crank over the motor without depressing the clutch that you are having problems with, no? I dunno maybe i'm just wrong in general!?!?

[kazuo]

You can bypass the clutch to start the car.

Originally posted by TheTicTac
I don't know if it's just me, but don't you need to have your transmission working before you can start the motor? I'm not sure if you can crank over the motor without depressing the clutch that you are having problems with, no? I dunno maybe i'm just wrong in general!?!?

[SlowEXd]

Originally posted by kazuo
You can bypass the clutch to start the car.

Electrically yes. But if the clutch is engaged you beter hope there is nothing in front of the car when you crank it.

recharge that battery to be sure and clean the carp out of your wire terminals. DR pepper works good and I hear pepper does too. I had similar problems with my SR.

[mbmbmb23]

As for the slave cylinder messing up....are you sure you didnt strip the threads on the flange that hooks up to the slave?? Just buy a new one from Nissan.


-m

[deviousKA]

if your starter is making the clicking noise, it could be the solenoid. it is probably the relay making the click, you probably have a bad connection on your battery, even though everything else works. i have ran across that problem before

[nrcooled]

1. Just follow the line from your MC all the way across your fire wall and down to the undercarrage it will be on the passenger side

2. You will see it runs to a box (the dampner) unscrew that fitting on the line to the dampner

3. Unscrew the fitting from the line running from the dampner to the slave cyl.

4 bend the line running from the master cyl. to meet the soft line from the slave cyl. [use the same mounting point the line from the MC met up w/ the dampner]

5. you can now remove the two screws holding the dampner since you just bypassed it

6. rebleed the clutch.

You are now golden my friend. I had the exact same problem and I tried to bleed the air out for almost 3 days so unless you have access to someone who can pressure bleed the clutch you will need to remove it to get the air out

[kazuo]

As the car is not close to me at the moment (its clear across town in a garage), and I am not entirely clear on what this piece is, i want to try and clarify this with ya.

I remember that from the slave cylinder, which is bolted onto the passenger side of the tranny, there is a hose that is connected to the slave, which is attached to a bracket on the chassis, and which runs to a small box that is also attached to the chassis. This "Small box" also has a bleeder on it like the slave.

I believe there are two metal lines running into this small box; one which i *assume* goes back to the master cylinder, and one that goes into the hose (not a metal pipe) which attaches to the slave cylinder.

Is this the piece I need to remove?

After I reroute all the lines and refill the resevior, do I need to bleed it again? If so, what would be the proper method now that I've bypassed the dampner?

Thanks againfor your help dude. Once I get this out of the way I can concentrate on getting the thing to crank..

[nrcooled]

Is this the piece I need to remove?

yes

[jdurning]

Originally posted by kazuo

I believe there are two metal lines running into this small box; one which i *assume* goes back to the master cylinder, and one that goes into the hose (not a metal pipe) which attaches to the slave cylinder.

Is this the piece I need to remove?

After I reroute all the lines and refill the resevior, do I need to bleed it again? If so, what would be the proper method now that I've bypassed the dampner?

Remove the whole damn thing. the block and the secondary loop that goes out and back to the block. You just need the line from the master and slave cylinder.

and Yes, rebleed the line. The process is the same as before:

Pump clutch pedal
Hold pedal to floor
Have assistant open bleed valve on slave cylinder
Close bleed valve
Check fluid level in reservoir and add more if necessary
Repeat

You might want to invest in a speed bleeder to replace the bleed valve. It will allow you to bleed them by yourself without opening and closing the valve all the time. You just pump and keep the reservoir filled.

--Joe

[kazuo]

Ok! I think I've gotten it figured out. I'm going to make another attempt to fix it this weekend. Hopefully all goes as planned

jdurning, how much do those speed bleeders you mentioned go for? I can pick one up like at Kragen or Autozone or something right?

Also, how many times should I repeat the process?

Thanks again to everyone who replied

[jdurning]

Originally posted by kazuo

jdurning, how much do those speed bleeders you mentioned go for? I can pick one up like at Kragen or Autozone or something right?

Also, how many times should I repeat the process?

Thanks again to everyone who replied

Don at PDM sells them for 11.50 a pair (they're ment for brake calipers but work work for the clutch system as well) and should go for about that as any other place locally.

I couldn't find them at local autoparts places, but the local hotrod shop could get them. I've got Russell speed bleeders (I think Russell got bought by Holley) and I think Earl's makes them too.

You want to do it as many times as it takes to get the air out. It's hard to specify as you may have more or less trapped air than the next guy.

What I've heard some people have done is to route a long piece of plastic tubing from the bleeder valve (here's where the speedbleeder comes in handy) back to the master reservoir. Then while you pump, it will recirculate the fluid but the air will bubble out. You should use less fluid this way, but I like to take the opportunity to flush the system of fluids whenever I'm working on hydraulics. I figure it would take about 3-5 master cylinders to completely replace the volume of the system with new fluid.

I like to bleed the system and then check the "feel" of the clutch pedal. When it feels good, I have a helper press it and I check the movement of the slave cylinder piston and the clutch fork to make sure it's at full travel.

Remember, it's also possible to adjust the travel of the clutch pedal by adjusting the threaded rod on the master cylinder. If no matter what you do you cant get the slave piston to travel enough, you might have to adjust that. The helper spring on the clutch pedal also doesn't like to return the pedal on an empty system, so you might have to manually pull it back up the first couple times.

Hope that helps.

--Je