Conception of Horsepower skewed?

[ripnbst]

Maybe its just me but do any of you ever think that our conception of how much whp is "fast"? I wrecked my 240 not long ago and was gonna rebuild it but I decided to get rid of it instead. I am looking to pick up an Evo within the next 6-12 months and would like to build it to the tune of 400 whp on pump gas. That seems so conservative when surfing this forum and others that I am on as well.

Just recently I rode in my buddies 07 VW R32 and I thought it moved pretty good. Then I asked him what it was putting out and he said 250 hp. Thats at the crank no doubt so 400 whp is gonna feel pretty quick.

I was just wondering if you guys feel like every once in a while your view of what is fast gets warped. This thread is more for guys with cars that dont already have 350 whp SR's cuz your cars are fast and you dont know it. It seems like there is always more to be desired.

[jskateborders]

Well alot of it has to do with driver vs passanger. My s13 was putting down 320 and it felt pretty quick as driver. Then I let someone else drive it and it was like "holy sh** this is fast i just got whiplash".

[Matej]

Personally I'd rather have a lightweight car with just enough power, instead of a heavy boat that needs 600hp to be fun.

[!Zar!]

Your body gets use to it. That's what it comes down to really.

When one first starts driving a Civic VX feels fast. Then you feel faster and faster and don't want to go back.

My subaru had 400whp. At first it felt ungodly fast. But you get use to it.

Then I started riding motorcycles. Where the bike makes 115rwhp and only weighs 380lbs.

THEN rode on a bigger bike with a tad bit more weight, but 180hp. THAT is fast. But after people get use to that, then they start turboing bikes.

It has to do with adrenalin. And the more you subject yourself to it, the more harder it is to get the same, "high".

Pretty much an endless path.

But I digress...

IMO, 350hp is the max a 240 needs.

[ryguy]

Originally Posted by jskateborders

Well alot of it has to do with driver vs passanger. My s13 was putting down 320 and it felt pretty quick as driver. Then I let someone else drive it and it was like "holy sh** this is fast i just got whiplash".

I totally agree, I rode in my friends 500hp Camaro and a passenger and shit my pants. When he let me drive it, it still seemed damn fast, but not as dangerously fast, I guess because I was in control.

[fromxtor]

Horse power is based off the amount of power one Drey horse makes. These horses are comparable to the clydesdale, to give you an idea. For me response is more important than hp. I honestly don't have all day for the turbo to spool up. 400 hp on a DD can become daunting, and could possibly get you into big trouble, hurt, or killed.

[TheWolf]

once you get a bike... you feel no need to mod cars.. it won't be bike fast... looking down at 90mph and seeing the pavement move about 8" from your toes... different experience... rather life changing..

[jskateborders]

Originally Posted by !Zar!

Your body gets use to it. That's what it comes down to really.

When one first starts driving a Civic VX feels fast. Then you feel faster and faster and don't want to go back.

My subaru had 400whp. At first it felt ungodly fast. But you get use to it.

Then I started riding motorcycles. Where the bike makes 115rwhp and only weighs 380lbs.

THEN rode on a bigger bike with a tad bit more weight, but 180hp. THAT is fast. But after people get use to that, then they start turboing bikes.

It has to do with adrenalin. And the more you subject yourself to it, the more harder it is to get the same, "high".

Pretty much an endless path.

But I digress...

IMO, 350hp is the max a 240 needs.

Yea pretty much. At 320 I found myself almost never being able to go full throttle, except at a drag strip. Other than that, if I was doing touge or track ect ect, If I would go full throttle, I would have to brake hard before entering corners, which is never good, or if I went full throttle in the corner, automatic drift. As far as power for drifting goes, yea its nice to have alot of power, but its really a crutch. Since my s13 got stolen, Ive been drifting my n/a s4. feels like maybe 90whp at most, but I can drift the hell outta that thing. Sometimes it is nice to have a 600 roll up on you and be able to surprise him... but other than that, I think 300 would be fine for practicle uses, IE time attack, drift, ect

[Deftec]

If you're thinking about it while riding yes..it gives you somewhat of a "wow" experience on a bike...but when you're doing 100mph on a bike, it feels normal for some reason as compared to a car. I dunno, that's my experience though haha

[!Zar!]

100 feels like you're cruising on a bike.

One handed and bored.

Originally Posted by TheWolf

once you get a bike... you feel no need to mod cars.. it won't be bike fast... looking down at 90mph and seeing the pavement move about 8" from your toes... different experience... rather life changing..

It's even weirder when you're going that fast and you actually touch down.

[theicecreamdan]

Yeah I was gonna say 90mph on a bike is definitely not life changing.

Edit: Unless maybe you're dragging bare skin on the ground at 90, that could change your life.

[allntrlundrgrnd]

my ~210whp s13 feels fast, but thats cause i had a shitting ka in it before.

now not as much, cause ive become accustomed to it. i dont think i would want over 350whp to be honest. driving in the snow/rain with exedy stage 2 isnt always fun.

[VROOOM]

turbo cars feel quicker than all motor cars too.

[slider2828]

I used to race bikes, what is scary is weaving traffic at 90 and going in between semi's and stuff, you don't think its stupid while you are doing it, but when you stop and think, its damn stupid. I used to clip cars weaving traffic doing like 40 while the cars were stopped. Truthfully its all relative. Bikes going 160 and scrapping knees into the turn, eh no biggy, sliding 60 mph across on coming traffic, eh.... Been there, its all about experience, fun the first time then you think, hmmm its stupid....

Moral of the story, everything once you experience it, you never can really go back...

But honestly, how come no one talked about Torque? Horsepower is nothing, Torque is everything... 4WDs have more torque because they have more traction and engines in general have more torque and its purposely setup that way. Every drive and Evo or STI at 80 and downshift to pass someone? That thing sucks.... You can't compare horsepower between 4WDs and 2WDs, its just different. Just build something with more torque and then you REALLY have some fun....

Otherwise stick to a race track and trust me most people don't even come close to the edge until you start actually racing.... When you are with people with similar experiences racing on a track together, its different everyday. That is an adrenaline rush....

Say woot for Laguna in April... I can't wait....

[DirtyS14]

Horsepower doesn't matter even in the slightest. Its all about torque.

Torque is what pushes you back in your seat. Torque is what most people talk about when they say, "damn thats shits fast yo"

My SR 240 'feels' much faster than my dads e46 m3, is it? NO. Its hard to envision physically.

EDIT: ^ Guy beat me to it.

Perfect example, sit in a turbo diesel dodge ram. It will squish you into the seat like a marshmallow and you'll be struggling to hold onto the steering wheel, look down, you'll be doing 6mph.

[murda-c]

Originally Posted by jskateborders

Yea pretty much. At 320 I found myself almost never being able to go full throttle, except at a drag strip. Other than that, if I was doing touge or track ect ect, If I would go full throttle, I would have to brake hard before entering corners, which is never good, or if I went full throttle in the corner, automatic drift. As far as power for drifting goes, yea its nice to have alot of power, but its really a crutch. Since my s13 got stolen, Ive been drifting my n/a s4. feels like maybe 90whp at most, but I can drift the hell outta that thing. Sometimes it is nice to have a 600 roll up on you and be able to surprise him... but other than that, I think 300 would be fine for practicle uses, IE time attack, drift, ect

1. why would you go full throttle in a turn? unless it's a super long sweeper i can't even do that with my stock ka
2. you're supposed to brake hard before the corner.

[TheWolf]

Originally Posted by DirtyS14

Horsepower doesn't matter even in the slightest. Its all about torque.

Torque is what pushes you back in your seat. Torque is what most people talk about when they say, "damn thats shits fast yo"

My SR 240 'feels' much faster than my dads e46 m3, is it? NO. Its hard to envision physically.

EDIT: ^ Guy beat me to it.

Perfect example, sit in a turbo diesel dodge ram. It will squish you into the seat like a marshmallow and you'll be struggling to hold onto the steering wheel, look down, you'll be doing 6mph.

your SR20 better be faster than your dad's E46 m3.. 333hp with 256ftlbs 13.3 in the quarter... you give up some HP but drop more than 600lbs..

torque vs hp is a dumb argument. torque is an indicator for how wide the powerband is. Most bigger engines may make the same peak HP as the m3 but over a wider RPM range. They feel faster as they're pulling. It's similar to how most people put in a high RPM stall convertor on a drag race car. The engine flashes to the peak power output RPM and as the torque convertor stator gains speed the torque multiplication factor goes away. The 10 second car that does wheel stands is a prime example of this. It's got grip and a beefy rear end. engine flashes to peak torque... torque convertor multiplies it by 2.5x.. 500Hp car does cool wheel stand but still can only run a 10.8..

[DrIvEsldEwAyS]

my 240 makes 431whp at 15psi on pump. thats not even with the boost controller hooked up. and its stupid fast.

[dirtdiggler666]

my 240 has 240whp and 250 torque and the car is about (guess) 2350 lbs and feels fast to me on the street.

[JRas]

my ka feels slow.. because it is

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by slider2828

I used to race bikes, what is scary is weaving traffic at 90 and going in between semi's and stuff, you don't think its stupid while you are doing it, but when you stop and think, its damn stupid. I used to clip cars weaving traffic doing like 40 while the cars were stopped. Truthfully its all relative. Bikes going 160 and scrapping knees into the turn, eh no biggy, sliding 60 mph across on coming traffic, eh.... Been there, its all about experience, fun the first time then you think, hmmm its stupid....

Moral of the story, everything once you experience it, you never can really go back...

But honestly, how come no one talked about Torque? Horsepower is nothing, Torque is everything... 4WDs have more torque because they have more traction and engines in general have more torque and its purposely setup that way. Every drive and Evo or STI at 80 and downshift to pass someone? That thing sucks.... You can't compare horsepower between 4WDs and 2WDs, its just different. Just build something with more torque and then you REALLY have some fun....

Otherwise stick to a race track and trust me most people don't even come close to the edge until you start actually racing.... When you are with people with similar experiences racing on a track together, its different everyday. That is an adrenaline rush....

Say woot for Laguna in April... I can't wait....

This man speaks truth, I have ran a 300whp RB powered S13 and can tell the car was awesomely quick. In fact I would fuck with sport bikes with it. I will be running a 300whp HP VQ and the torque should be close to that.
I always call Honda's torque less wonders because they are. They rely on low gearing to get the off line acceleration needed due to their low torque.
Everybody gets sucked into building for HP when they fail to realize its the Torque that gets you moving! HP keeps you going but Torque gives you the boot. Track cars do not need low end torque so they are tuned more for HP and Torque higher up. Drifting and street? Torque is your friend in my opinion.

With all of the above said 300-350WHP is more than enough for most all S chassis's. That usually translates out to somewhere around 270-300 ft lbs of torque.

[!Zar!]

My old FC TII made around 250~hp but it had little torque.

So when I drove my stock s13, it felt faster, even though it wasn't.

Same thing when comparing ka-t to sr.

My ka-t felt fast even though the sr was faster.

[slothonaleash]

I drive a basically stock ka24de. To be honest, ripping through first and spinning the tires in second makes me feel like my car is 'quick'.

Though I've only been driving for a little over a year.

At the moment, 120 WHP is all I need.

[napaKAliboog]

i used to do canyon runs in one of my na/ka s13s...also 400-600whp vettes. it's not really the horsepower you feel it's the differences in torque, weight, chassis structure, and maybe the newer tinkles like traction control, LSDs etc.

[jskateborders]

Originally Posted by murda-c

1. why would you go full throttle in a turn? unless it's a super long sweeper i can't even do that with my stock ka
2. you're supposed to brake hard before the corner.

1. My point was that I rarely put the power to use
2. Seriously? You are supposed to brake yes, but not hard, Its supposed to be smooth. Smoother transitions make for less weight transitions which equals better traction. That makes faster lap times.

[murda-c]

Maybe it depends on the track, but i feel but since most of the majority of road courses is straights, you wanna be going as fast as you can on them, which means blasting full throttle as early as you can from corner exit, all the way until you reach the braking zone, where you wait as long as you dare then hard on the brakes.

unless it is a high speed chicane or whatever, those are tricky and hard braking seems to just make it easier to spin out.

[Bubbles]

Everybody saying it's JUST torque needs to chill.

I've drove 'torque less wonders' that probably had less torque than a stock Sr and would shit all over a modified Z or skyline or whatever.

[thedecapitator]

yeah i agreee man jskateboarder

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Everybody saying it's JUST torque needs to chill.

I've drove 'torque less wonders' that probably had less torque than a stock Sr and would shit all over a modified Z or skyline or whatever.

Ah why do I believe this statement is skewed by your perception and not reality? Your above statement is very random and generalized without proper info it has no bearing on the discussion.

In other words, you never actually ran against a modified Z or a Skyline you're just talking out your ass. You have not stated any real world experience to cite, to back up your claim.

In other words its complete

[napaKAliboog]