Seattle Police Officer gets away with murder

[ericcastro]

I know we end up with all the big videos of Police doing crazy things.
So I figured this one may strike some cords in some of you, I know it did to me.



A dash cam video from the officer who shot and killed Native American woodcarver John T. William, showing Williams ambling slowly across the street in a crosswalk before the officer opens fire.

Officer Ian Burke can then be seen walking after Williams and shouting, "Hey, hey, hey! Put the knife down! Put the knife down!"

The officer walks off-screen and then five shots ring out in rapid succession, killing Williams.



Williams was a Native American wood carver. ( he was a 7th generation sculpter, and sold his wood carving art to the same store his father had sold his art to. He was carving on the wood when he was killed)

He had a 3 inch knife on him and a piece of wood. (legal knife size in Seattle)

The knife was found closed at the scene (although police released pictures of the knife open.)

Williams was shot in the side (not the front, he was said to be hard of hearing and maybe didnt understand what the officer was saying it happened so fast)

From asking him to put the knife down to shooting Williams, only took 4 seconds.

Officer Birk did not identify himself as a Police Officer ("Citizens cannot be expected to obey people who do not properly identify themselves as Seattle police officers,"Seattle Police Deputy Chief Clark Kimerer said)

Officer Birk did not contact back up or let dispatch know what was going on.(Despite him exiting with his fire arm drawn)

Officer Birk did not take efforts to find cover and instead advanced toward Williams.(which you do not do if its a high risk situation)

A witness testified that Williams never pulled a knife on Birk, and never lunged at the officer.

Firearms Review Board said the board was unanimous in its decision that the shooting was not justified.







Seems like a shit ton of obvious evidence.
In my eyes this Officer is guilty as all hell.
And in the eyes of the Fire Arms review board.
Unfortunatly a 25 year old law that says they can exercise their decision to use deadly force if its in good faith and without malice.

Really sad.
Seattle Police have been getting over the top with the abuse of power lately.

[J3123MY]

Cops love to use deadly force.

Cop deserves a harsh sentence for murder, like any average American citizen would most likely get.

Unfortunatly a 25 year old law that says they can exercise their decision to use deadly force if its in good faith and without malice.

LOL. What a catch 22. Basically, cops cannot get in any trouble, all they have to say was its in good faith and without malice. Is this what America has come to?

I love how all you zilvia pussys were defending the Seattle cop that punched the girl. look at what happens when cops find out they can get a way with shit, they just keep getting more ridiculous and ridiculous. Never let people abuse their power, they will just abuse it more and more.

Fucking piece of shit shoots 5 shots... Send this fucker to prison. seriously. If anyone else did this, they would end up in prison in a second. And the fucking knife was found fucking CLOSED. Seriously??????????????

R.I.P. to John Williams. The American government has still managed to find a way to wrong Native Americans in the 21st century.


SEND HIM TO PRISON. COPS ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW. IT IS TIME THEY LEARN.

[theicecreamdan]

The girl that got punched had it coming, you can't get physical and not expect that.

And don't pull the native american card out on this one, ALL americans were wronged with what happened to this guy.

[J3123MY]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

The girl that got punched had it coming, you can't get physical and not expect that.

And don't pull the native american card out on this one, ALL americans were wronged with what happened to this guy.

Well, the Native American guy was carrying around a knife... You could say he had it coming too, carrying and displaying a knife in front of a cop. Both cases, imo, excessive force was used. One was obviously much more then the other and involved in death. None the less, I believe both cases are simply cops using excessive force, plain and simple.

Good point, all Americans were wronged, but this man was the one who paid for it... with his life. And he was carving, something of his "culture" , which ultimately caused him to be shot and murdered.

[Daniel.]

That's a pretty appalling video.

[theicecreamdan]

Originally Posted by J3123MY

Well, the Native American guy was carrying around a knife... You could say he had it coming too, carrying and displaying a knife in front of a cop. Both cases, imo, excessive force was used. One was obviously much more then the other and involved in death. None the less, I believe both cases are simply cops using excessive force, plain and simple.

Good point, all Americans were wronged, but this man was the one who paid for it... with his life. And he was carving, something of his "culture" , which ultimately caused him to be shot and murdered.

In this case the line between tool and weapon was very clear and, according to the evidence available to us, it is clear that he didn't cross it. He did not have it coming.

The seattle girl had her hands on the cop before he used force, she crossed the line and force was a legitimate option

[PIN GIO 2]

i heard this ago time.. i am deaf and he's deaf too. i am too scare of cop if he dont know i am deaf and shoot me.

[xpertsnowcarver]

Agreed.. Very compelling. The 25 year old law needs revision, or there needs to be more stringent efforts to weed out officers that react making terrible decisions. The latter is never going to happen, so the law needs to get revised.

[J3123MY]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

In this case the line between tool and weapon was very clear and, according to the evidence available to us, it is clear that he didn't cross it. He did not have it coming.

The seattle girl had her hands on the cop before he used force, she crossed the line and force was a legitimate option

It wasn't clear enough for the cop....

[BustedS13]

cops listen to too much cock rock in police academy, and then this happens.



i bet nickelback has a song about getting free food at restaurants

[raz0rbladez909]

Originally Posted by J3123MY

Cops love to use deadly force.

Cop deserves a harsh sentence for murder, like any average American citizen would most likely get.

LOL. What a catch 22. Basically, cops cannot get in any trouble, all they have to say was its in good faith and without malice. Is this what America has come to?

I love how all you zilvia pussys were defending the Seattle cop that punched the girl. look at what happens when cops find out they can get a way with shit, they just keep getting more ridiculous and ridiculous. Never let people abuse their power, they will just abuse it more and more.

Fucking piece of shit shoots 5 shots... Send this fucker to prison. seriously. If anyone else did this, they would end up in prison in a second. And the fucking knife was found fucking CLOSED. Seriously??????????????

R.I.P. to John Williams. The American government has still managed to find a way to wrong Native Americans in the 21st century.


SEND HIM TO PRISON. COPS ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW. IT IS TIME THEY LEARN.

Most of your statements here are gross generalizations "Cops love to use deadly force." What kind of statement is that? It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to bash cops and put them all into one group.

Then you spout off this awesome line "I love how all you zilvia pussys were defending the Seattle cop that punched the girl. look at what happens when cops find out they can get a way with shit, they just keep getting more ridiculous and ridiculous. Never let people abuse their power, they will just abuse it more and more." I can't think of anything more naive to say, that girl in the Seattle video was wrong for putting her hands on a police officer and resisting arrest, everybody knows that, I'm sorry lets not arrest people just because they don't want to be arrested.

"The American government has still managed to find a way to wrong Native Americans in the 21st century." It isn't the American government you fucking moron, its the actions of one person. With your mentality I'm sure if a black guy got shot you'd probably say the white man still manages to find a way to wrong African Americans in the 21st century. Seriously you sound like an idiot.

Back on topic though, the cop is definitely wrong in every way especially if the man wasn't doing anything to provoke the officers actions. Some people just shouldn't be Police Officers, and the ones that get publicity are usually the ones that screw up. Do you think you're going to hear about police officers saving lives on the news? So many of you are so quick to jump on the I hate cops bandwagon, when most of them do their job and do it well, its the bad ones that you all hate yet you generalize it to be all cops. Some of you need to grow the fuck up, if you weren't breaking laws then you wouldn't get pulled over; I've been pulled over more than once and I damn well deserved it, in fact I've been let off the hook on more than one occasion as well. Now there is those few out there that have been profiled or wrongfully accused but thats few and far between, I'm sure 90% of you would call the cops in an emergency so don't try to be some internet badass pretending that you wouldn't.

Ohh yeah I'm sure this is going to get moved to Loud Noises

[murda-c]

They could charge him, but I dont see any way for them to convict him. There is definitely something wrong when an officer deems it necessary to use deadly force on someone's back after 7 seconds, but I think a civil suit is the only way anyone can touch this guy, because there is no way to prove malicious intent.

He is definitely a bad cop, but I can't say for sure that he's a bad person.

There definitely needs to be more education on the part of SPD on the use of deadly force and when it is appropriate.

[HyperTek]

cop was probably like "aww fuck turns out he was also an Native American woodcarver, im in deeper shit now"

Its just sad on how being mistaken can lose your life. Remember that biker who was shot in the back who is now paralyzed.

Whenever i get pulled over, i always think to myself "i could get blasted if i move the wrong way".

[DreamN]

Some people really should not be officers of the law. Sad indeed.

The fact that he's getting away with it so easily is even worse.

[HyperTek]

i suppose its easier to kill off your suspect rather then have them press charges on you for shooting em in the arm etc..

Honestly he probably could have just pulled his gun out and pointed at him to scare the guy rather then pull it out soo fast and blast.

[J3123MY]

Originally Posted by raz0rbladez909

Most of your statements here are gross generalizations "Cops love to use deadly force." What kind of statement is that? It sounds like you are just looking for an excuse to bash cops and put them all into one group.

Then you spout off this awesome line "I love how all you zilvia pussys were defending the Seattle cop that punched the girl. look at what happens when cops find out they can get a way with shit, they just keep getting more ridiculous and ridiculous. Never let people abuse their power, they will just abuse it more and more." I can't think of anything more naive to say, that girl in the Seattle video was wrong for putting her hands on a police officer and resisting arrest, everybody knows that, I'm sorry lets not arrest people just because they don't want to be arrested.

"The American government has still managed to find a way to wrong Native Americans in the 21st century." It isn't the American government you fucking moron, its the actions of one person. With your mentality I'm sure if a black guy got shot you'd probably say the white man still manages to find a way to wrong African Americans in the 21st century. Seriously you sound like an idiot.

Back on topic though, the cop is definitely wrong in every way especially if the man wasn't doing anything to provoke the officers actions. Some people just shouldn't be Police Officers, and the ones that get publicity are usually the ones that screw up. Do you think you're going to hear about police officers saving lives on the news? So many of you are so quick to jump on the I hate cops bandwagon, when most of them do their job and do it well, its the bad ones that you all hate yet you generalize it to be all cops. Some of you need to grow the fuck up, if you weren't breaking laws then you wouldn't get pulled over; I've been pulled over more than once and I damn well deserved it, in fact I've been let off the hook on more than one occasion as well. Now there is those few out there that have been profiled or wrongfully accused but thats few and far between, I'm sure 90% of you would call the cops in an emergency so don't try to be some internet badass pretending that you wouldn't.

Ohh yeah I'm sure this is going to get moved to Loud Noises

LOL. you are right. My first statement is a gross generalization. I was just a little bit angry, as I have been hearing waaaaayyyyy to many cases of this recently. Naked people getting killed, people with waterhose guns getting killed, and people carving getting killed, people taking out wallets and getting killed, and much much more. And each time, usually, the cop gets away with it.

The individuals make up the organization. Cops are the dogs for the government, hence they work for the government, they are the government. I guess i just feel bad for what the American government has done to the Indians in the past, and this old 7th gen wood carver Indian was walking along, carving his wood and he got shot by a cop.


BTW. I am not a bandwagoner. I have a strong distrust/ border line dislike of cops from my experiences. I have been harassed ridiculously for no reason, I have had cops threaten to abuse their power on me, luckily I haven't had anything too bad happen to me. And I have never called the cops to help me before.

[Imarvin240]

i remember the story a few years back about the kid walking down the street with a wooden toy gun and a cop saw it and shot the kid...cops need to look at teh situation first before they do something.

1. the guy witht he knife is not near him, so he cant stab him at all...so take a second and think about the options you have first.

2. the kid with the wooden gun...it was a damn kid! take a deep breath and take a good hard look before you shoot a CHILD!

i understand you cant take a second in all situations, but i think that these two situations, the officers could have thought about what was going on and what there options were...before they shot people who did nothing wrong.

[sidewaysil80]

Originally Posted by HyperTek

i suppose its easier to kill off your suspect rather then have them press charges on you for shooting em in the arm etc..

Honestly he probably could have just pulled his gun out and pointed at him to scare the guy rather then pull it out soo fast and blast.

the way it's SUPPOSED to work is that your pistol is your last option in the escalation of force. verbal commands to contact controls to non lethal tactics (i.e. pepper spray/taser) to lastly, deadly force. i know my rules of engagment are very similiar if not exactly like city/state police...and i'm not allowed to "shoot to wound". if i'm in a confrontation were deadly force must be used, i have to shoot to kill. if i get caught firing a warning shot or intentially shooting in a green area (arms,legs,hands,feet) i can kiss my ass and job good bye.

now on the issue at hand, i can't put myself in that guys shoes or comment because i wasn't there and to be honest we're only getting audio. but at the very least pepper spary or taser should have been used first. you never never go from verbal commands straight to deadly force...UNLESS a firearm is suspected or witnessed.

[S14DB]

When the police Chief and Mayor don't have your back you are pretty much in the wrong.

Editorials | The Williams shooting: decertify the law officer | Seattle Times Newspaper

Sadly it looks like the only thing that can be done is to have that law changed/clarified.

[J3123MY]

What a lucky son of a bitch. Killed a man for no reason and just loses his job.\

Just noticed the girl walking; saw the murder and kept walking, and just rubber necking. She was way too cool with that. I would be tripping out.

[axiomatik]

+1 imaginary rep to icecreamdan.

What is it especially about police that causes people to paint them all with one brush? A handful of bad apples means that all police will shoot you if they can get away with it?

[gearhead55]

Originally Posted by BustedS13

i bet nickelback has a song about getting free food at restaurants

LOL

Originally Posted by J3123MY

Just noticed the girl walking; saw the murder and kept walking, and just rubber necking. She was way too cool with that. I would be tripping out.

I don't think she really just kept walking. Later in the video you can hear the cop say to a female 'mam he had a knife and wouldn't drop it'. That makes me think that she kept walking for a bit before what she had just witnessed had really been processed, at which point she stopped and questioned the cop. Its not everyday you see some dude get blasted by a cop out of the blue right in front of you, ya know. It takes a while for your brain to make that jump, in the mean time you keep doing whatever you're doing, like this chick did for a second or two.

In response to this video, its just another example of power getting to a cop's head. Its always fucked up. Thats why i do everything i can to stay as far away from cops as i can.

and to razorbladez909 saying basically 'most cops are fine, you only hear about bad ones, blah, blah, blah,' fuck that. Yes maybe the majority of cops may be fine, but when they are not things like this happen. They don't let shitty doctors practice medicine because if they did people would die. It should be the same for cops. And don't tell me you can't screen for bad cops because you can, very effectively. There are psychological tests that specifically look for personalities that tend take advantage of perceived power.

It kills me that there is a new story like this coming up every couple of weeks...

[TheWolf]

when I get pulled over I think. "first click takes it off safe.. second click puts it in rock and roll mode"

[TougeLove]

^im lol'ing right now! AHAHAHHAA

[kandyflip445]

With great power comes great responsibility.

I think police officers should be held to a higher standard that normal citizens. Do they have something like the UCMJ used in the military?

A messed up situation indeed, but I don't think it's directly comparable to the incident with the woman resisting arrest. It wasn't the same officer just another incident in the same area.

[TougeLove]

^if you havent, you should try a ride along with local p.d. shit is scary as hell when you're walking up to a car with crazy tinted windows and 3+ guys in the car. it really puts the threat level and reality into perspective.

[sidewaysil80]

Originally Posted by gearhead55

And don't tell me you can't screen for bad cops because you can, very effectively. There are psychological tests that specifically look for personalities that tend take advantage of perceived power.

i can tell you for a fact...EVERY police department does an EXTENSIVE background check and MULTIPLE psychological evals. cops are screened and it's actually very very difficult to become one fyi. the application/hiring process alone is usually up to year. and THEN you move on to academy, field training, ojt, proby period. so even as strict and incredibly hard as it is to become a cop...bad apples can and will slip through. psych evals dont always catch nut jobs....sometimes they slip through.

[Future240]

Originally Posted by axiomatik

+1 imaginary rep to icecreamdan.

What is it especially about police that causes people to paint them all with one brush? A handful of bad apples means that all police will shoot you if they can get away with it?

That is an easy answer it is Ignorance the same ignorance that has plagued this country for years, whether the hate and generalization is of law enforcement, a race, religious group, etc. It all boils down to the same ignorant people who look at a few bad examples of that group and apply it to all.

Those of you who are saying this is just another reason why cops are bad etc. think about it like this, across the nation there are hundreds of thousands of officers yet stuff like the above is seen in such small quanties.

It is like if with all the mods present and past were on the board and there were two abusing there powers would you say all the mods were bad?

It is statistically impossible for there to be no bad cops that is a fact however to apply their actions and let it stand for all the ones who are not just makes the person doing it ignorant and a bit of a jackass.

[gearhead55]

Originally Posted by sidewaysil80

i can tell you for a fact...EVERY police department does an EXTENSIVE background check and MULTIPLE psychological evals. cops are screened and it's actually very very difficult to become one fyi. the application/hiring process alone is usually up to year. and THEN you move on to academy, field training, ojt, proby period. so even as strict and incredibly hard as it is to become a cop...bad apples can and will slip through. psych evals dont always catch nut jobs....sometimes they slip through.

I'm sure you're right and they do go through background checks, psych evals, but things like this happen waaaaay too often for the checks that currently exist to be adequate. A new story and video of this happens every couple weeks.

From my own experience the friends of mine that became cops/chp were coke heads and college drop outs.

And yes yes yes the 99% of cops aren't going to shoot some innocent guy, but the job itself lends itself to people that will abuse their power.

[ronmcdon]

Originally Posted by J3123MY

What a lucky son of a bitch. Killed a man for no reason and just loses his job.\

Just noticed the girl walking; saw the murder and kept walking, and just rubber necking. She was way too cool with that. I would be tripping out.

Yeah the fact that the said cop didn't have any criminal convictions is pretty damned appalling.
How the said cop can just blow anyone away, in broad daylight, with so much evidence is just horrific.

At least in CA, there were convictions with the last 2 trigger-happy cops, however meager.
Despite my state's shortcoming's, at least we don't stoop to such barbarism.

Seems to me that Seattle PD is more interested in covering their ass than anything else.
IMO, the consequences need to be addressed on a higher level here.