When stock BMC isn't enough.. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

*NemeGuero* · 10-13-2005, 07:02 PM

alright, I've got the power dept handled with my ka-t.
next.. being able to bring my bish to a stop...

my options are orbiting around the fact that if I go too big on rotor/caliper sizes that I'll have to upgrade my BMC. I have barely enough clearance as it is being top mount and I don't want to redo all that.. so basically... when is the stock BMC not enough to stop a turbo charged vehicle?

can I do z32s or q45s on the stock BMC? doesn't seem like that would be a good idea...

I'm leaning towards brembo stock sizes and some beefy pads(hawks or something of the like..still researching.) But will I be able to bring my (~260hp) ka-t to a stop, happily? (with stock BMC)

edit: I'm also heavily concerned with brake bias which is why keeping the stock dimensions seems like the better idea to me..

statik · 10-13-2005, 07:19 PM

you can do Z32 front brakes with a stock BMC(been using them for over a year), i wouldnt recommend a full set of Z's. The pedal will feel a bit mushy but they stop much better than stock regardless. I believe that an s13 with ABS had a larger BMC which might fit better.

*NemeGuero* · 10-13-2005, 07:26 PM

I had an s14 auto BMC but it caused clearance issues... and i didn't really want to do only 1/2 brake upgrades.

is there any way to, I dunno, rebore the BMC or something to make it more efficient?
you don't feel bias with only your fronts done?

calebxmartyr · 10-13-2005, 11:03 PM

i have full z32 brakes with the stock bmc, there is a bit of play before it grabs but once it does it stops like a biatch.

*NemeGuero* · 10-14-2005, 02:20 PM

I don't like mushy brakes..
statik, do you notice bias only having the fronts done?
anyone running just aftermarket stock sized rotors/calipers and beefy pads have input about the stopping power attained?

EchoOfSilence · 10-14-2005, 02:41 PM

somone actually had a position vs. time graph around here that showed z32 fronts + stock rears plotted vs stock all around, (stock BMC) , and the Z32 guys had better braking force for the first half, but the overall braking distance was more than the stockers. bias affects shit

statik · 10-14-2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EchoOfSilence

somone actually had a position vs. time graph around here that showed z32 fronts + stock rears plotted vs stock all around, (stock BMC) , and the Z32 guys had better braking force for the first half, but the overall braking distance was more than the stockers. bias affects shit

id have to say thats BS, my car stops TONS faster with the Z brakes, however i have never done a side by side comparison

240_sx_guy · 10-14-2005, 03:33 PM

s14 comes with larger bmc because they came with z32 front brakes in Japan. Stock s13 has a smaller bmc iirc. What cars do you all have?

calebxmartyr · 10-14-2005, 03:50 PM

92' s13

(message to short)

SochBAT · 10-14-2005, 05:16 PM

If you wanna stop better, upgrade the BMC to z32, upgrade the brake booster (iirc, you can use z32), brake lines (earls lines are freaking AWESOME), bigger pistons and rotors (more surface contact area), and hi-pressure fluids (Motul, redline) and pads (axxis, hawk)

ANd then you'll be a Stopping King! Kinda.

One reason people normally do brake upgrades (common ones like Q45s, and Z32s) is to resist brakefade. There was a definitive article somewhere here, braking down setups, stopping power, caliper laod capacity, all that yummy yummy goodness.

If all else fails, a solid object helps ALOT. I should know!

*NemeGuero* · 10-14-2005, 06:58 PM

I'm worried about clearance from the z32 BMC and my top mount t3/t4.. how much larger.. if at all.. is the z32 BMC than stock? s14 ka-t

*NemeGuero* · 10-14-2005, 06:59 PM

ooohh echo... he said you're BS!!

SochBAT · 10-15-2005, 12:46 AM

IIRC, its only slightly bigger, i'd say, 1/4", but don't quote me on that. Lemme check my bro's BMC and his z32 one later when he gets home.

upSLIDEdown · 10-15-2005, 08:23 AM

I believe the external dimensions of the BMC's are the same. I have Z32 30mm aluminum brakes on all four corners, with Z32 BMC, stainless lines, brembo slotted rotors, and Metal Master pads. It stops like a Ferrari. I absolutely love my brakes.

*NemeGuero* · 10-15-2005, 09:02 PM

are you using your stock booster? or a z32 booster? hmm, does anyone have a z32 MC they want to let me 'size up' in my engine bay??

richardxfeng · 10-15-2005, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NemeGuero

are you using your stock booster? or a z32 booster? hmm, does anyone have a z32 MC they want to let me 'size up' in my engine bay??

If you really can't find one,I think you can buy one in autozone and return it afterwards.

upSLIDEdown · 10-16-2005, 12:08 PM

Yeah, I'm running a stock booster with the Z32 BMC. I'll have to compare it to my stock on that it replaced next time I'm at my dad's shop.

Bryan

EchoOfSilence · 10-16-2005, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 240_sx_guy

s14 comes with larger bmc because they came with z32 front brakes in Japan. Stock s13 has a smaller bmc iirc. What cars do you all have?

The message you have entered is too short.

EchoOfSilence · 10-16-2005, 01:37 PM

" We also complained of premature rear-wheel lockup and somewhat average 130-foot stopping distances from 60 mph.

The diameter of the master cylinder determines both how much brake force you'll get for a given pedal effort, and how much pedal movement there will be. The stock 7/8-inch master cylinder has a piston area of 0.60 square inches, so 100 pounds of force shoving on the piston from the combined effort of your foot, the pedal lever ratio and the brake booster, will make 167 psi (100 lb/0.60 in2) of fluid pressure with which to squeeze the calipers. Moving to a 1-inch master cylinder gets you 0.79 square inches, which makes only 127 psi from the same 100 pounds of footwork.

Since we had complained that the brakes felt touchy and overboosted, this reduction in pressure would be exactly what we needed. We also complained that there was too much pedal movement. The bigger master cylinder helps here, too. A 7/8-inch cylinder moving 0.1 inches pumps .060 cubic inches of fluid to the brakes. A 1-inch cylinder would pump .079 cubic inches. That means it would take less pedal movement to move the brake pads the fraction of an inch from their resting position to the rotors."

-SCC

10-13-2005, 07:02 PM	#1
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	When stock BMC isn't enough.. alright, I've got the power dept handled with my ka-t. next.. being able to bring my bish to a stop... my options are orbiting around the fact that if I go too big on rotor/caliper sizes that I'll have to upgrade my BMC. I have barely enough clearance as it is being top mount and I don't want to redo all that.. so basically... when is the stock BMC not enough to stop a turbo charged vehicle? can I do z32s or q45s on the stock BMC? doesn't seem like that would be a good idea... I'm leaning towards brembo stock sizes and some beefy pads(hawks or something of the like..still researching.) But will I be able to bring my (~260hp) ka-t to a stop, happily? (with stock BMC) edit: I'm also heavily concerned with brake bias which is why keeping the stock dimensions seems like the better idea to me..

10-13-2005, 07:19 PM	#2
statik Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Long Island, NY Age: 40 Posts: 1,358 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: statik Feedback Score: 0 reviews	you can do Z32 front brakes with a stock BMC(been using them for over a year), i wouldnt recommend a full set of Z's. The pedal will feel a bit mushy but they stop much better than stock regardless. I believe that an s13 with ABS had a larger BMC which might fit better. __________________ 97 240sx esaarr \| Current Status: SOLD

10-14-2005, 02:41 PM	#6
EchoOfSilence Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles/Berkeley, CA Posts: 2,238 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	somone actually had a position vs. time graph around here that showed z32 fronts + stock rears plotted vs stock all around, (stock BMC) , and the Z32 guys had better braking force for the first half, but the overall braking distance was more than the stockers. bias affects shit __________________ Petition Nissan to Make the IDx on http://IDxClub.co !

10-15-2005, 08:23 AM	#14
upSLIDEdown Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: VA.. And for those that keep PMing me asking what kit I have, it's Origin Stream. Posts: 1,730 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	I believe the external dimensions of the BMC's are the same. I have Z32 30mm aluminum brakes on all four corners, with Z32 BMC, stainless lines, brembo slotted rotors, and Metal Master pads. It stops like a Ferrari. I absolutely love my brakes. __________________

10-16-2005, 12:08 PM	#17
upSLIDEdown Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: VA.. And for those that keep PMing me asking what kit I have, it's Origin Stream. Posts: 1,730 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	Yeah, I'm running a stock booster with the Z32 BMC. I'll have to compare it to my stock on that it replaced next time I'm at my dad's shop. Bryan __________________

10-13-2005, 07:26 PM	#3
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I had an s14 auto BMC but it caused clearance issues... and i didn't really want to do only 1/2 brake upgrades. is there any way to, I dunno, rebore the BMC or something to make it more efficient? you don't feel bias with only your fronts done?

10-13-2005, 11:03 PM	#4
calebxmartyr Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: high point/greensboro, nc Age: 39 Posts: 13 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i have full z32 brakes with the stock bmc, there is a bit of play before it grabs but once it does it stops like a biatch.

10-14-2005, 02:20 PM	#5
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I don't like mushy brakes.. statik, do you notice bias only having the fronts done? anyone running just aftermarket stock sized rotors/calipers and beefy pads have input about the stopping power attained?

10-14-2005, 03:33 PM	#8
240_sx_guy BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: By a computer w/internet access Posts: 34 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	s14 comes with larger bmc because they came with z32 front brakes in Japan. Stock s13 has a smaller bmc iirc. What cars do you all have?

10-14-2005, 03:50 PM	#9
calebxmartyr Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: high point/greensboro, nc Age: 39 Posts: 13 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	92' s13 (message to short)

10-14-2005, 05:16 PM	#10
SochBAT Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Age: 39 Posts: 6,428 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: SochBAT Feedback Score: 9 reviews	If you wanna stop better, upgrade the BMC to z32, upgrade the brake booster (iirc, you can use z32), brake lines (earls lines are freaking AWESOME), bigger pistons and rotors (more surface contact area), and hi-pressure fluids (Motul, redline) and pads (axxis, hawk) ANd then you'll be a Stopping King! Kinda. One reason people normally do brake upgrades (common ones like Q45s, and Z32s) is to resist brakefade. There was a definitive article somewhere here, braking down setups, stopping power, caliper laod capacity, all that yummy yummy goodness. If all else fails, a solid object helps ALOT. I should know!

10-14-2005, 06:58 PM	#11
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	I'm worried about clearance from the z32 BMC and my top mount t3/t4.. how much larger.. if at all.. is the z32 BMC than stock? s14 ka-t

10-14-2005, 06:59 PM	#12
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	ooohh echo... he said you're BS!!

10-15-2005, 12:46 AM	#13
SochBAT Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Age: 39 Posts: 6,428 Trader Rating: (9) Rides Gallery: SochBAT Feedback Score: 9 reviews	IIRC, its only slightly bigger, i'd say, 1/4", but don't quote me on that. Lemme check my bro's BMC and his z32 one later when he gets home.

10-15-2005, 09:02 PM	#15
NemeGuero No more nissan. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: RAIN, Washington. Age: 40 Posts: 8,132 Trader Rating: (10) Rides Gallery: NemeGuero Feedback Score: 10 reviews	are you using your stock booster? or a z32 booster? hmm, does anyone have a z32 MC they want to let me 'size up' in my engine bay??

10-16-2005, 01:37 PM	#19
EchoOfSilence Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles/Berkeley, CA Posts: 2,238 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	" We also complained of premature rear-wheel lockup and somewhat average 130-foot stopping distances from 60 mph. The diameter of the master cylinder determines both how much brake force you'll get for a given pedal effort, and how much pedal movement there will be. The stock 7/8-inch master cylinder has a piston area of 0.60 square inches, so 100 pounds of force shoving on the piston from the combined effort of your foot, the pedal lever ratio and the brake booster, will make 167 psi (100 lb/0.60 in2) of fluid pressure with which to squeeze the calipers. Moving to a 1-inch master cylinder gets you 0.79 square inches, which makes only 127 psi from the same 100 pounds of footwork. Since we had complained that the brakes felt touchy and overboosted, this reduction in pressure would be exactly what we needed. We also complained that there was too much pedal movement. The bigger master cylinder helps here, too. A 7/8-inch cylinder moving 0.1 inches pumps .060 cubic inches of fluid to the brakes. A 1-inch cylinder would pump .079 cubic inches. That means it would take less pedal movement to move the brake pads the fraction of an inch from their resting position to the rotors." -SCC __________________ Petition Nissan to Make the IDx on http://IDxClub.co !