How are modded 240s tuned? I never see a dyno sheet in the for sale section.

[mx597turbo]

I'm coming from the LSx, world so maybe things are different. With most US vehicles, a tune is putting the car on the dyno and fine tuning the fuel settings until it runs clean and has a correct afr. You can get a mail order tune, but dyno tuning is only about $100 more, so almost every one prefers to do that.

Looking through the for sale section, I notice almost every car for sale has an engine swap, and is modded, but only very few cars actually have dyno sheet. How are these cars tuned? Just wideband afr?

Also, are the ecu's flashable, or do you need a standalone programmable? How do you change the rpm limiter?

Just wondering this, because I generally call bullshit on any claimed HP numbers without a dyno sheet. Actually, I usually pay for a dyno run for a car I'm looking to buy. This way, I see the numbers, and if the car is going to break, it does before I buy it. It's usually $50 well spent.

To anyone looking to buy any car, trust me, if they won't let their car be dyno'd, just walk away. There's no reason anyone should be scared of a 4th pull to redline.

[280zx2by2]

They're a magical beast. Street tuned, up and down hills and such.

[Brian]

Thanks for the help.

[pstarkt87]

if I were to sell a dyno sheet, how much would you pay for it? what kind of return could I expect from said dyno sheet?

[landins13]

there are a lot of different options for tuning these things but most of the people who have a stock sr with bolt ons dont bother tuning them or they get a generic reflash.

Some of the better options which can be tuned on the dyno are.
Apexi Power FC
HKS Fcon Pro
AEM EMS
Greddy Emanage
Nistune

those are all fully programmable options though some replace the factory ecu and some are just add ons. Of course what system you run also depends on what motor you have and what your goals/ plans for the car are.

I know allot of the people on here have enthapy tunes where they get a generic map based on what injectors maf and turbo they are running.

[h2v7]

Originally Posted by 280zx2by2

They're a magical beast. Street tuned, up and down hills and such.

this.

[towlie]

It's because tunes aren't really necessary

97% of SR's only have mild bolt ons, afr and boost controller is the closest they get

People only wanna throw down $$$ for management/tune when they have serious power goals with major internals to boot

[NoPistons!]

Moates/nismotronic
rs enthalpy (sp?)
Megasquirt/megajolt
SAFC/MSD box/1:1afpr/fmu


TONS of options. TONS.


A wideband and a tune is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you are stock. Get the most bang for your buck without going boom because you have CONSTANT readout of your afr's and datalogging is worth it's weight in gold.

[anti tyler]

Originally Posted by towlie

It's because tunes aren't really necessary

97% of SR's only have mild bolt ons, afr and boost controller is the closest they get

People only wanna throw down $$$ for management/tune when they have serious power goals with major internals to boot

Originally Posted by NoPistons!

Moates/nismotronic
rs enthalpy (sp?)
Megasquirt/megajolt
SAFC/MSD box/1:1afpr/fmu


TONS of options. TONS.


A wideband and a tune is ALWAYS a good idea, even if you are stock. Get the most bang for your buck without going boom because you have CONSTANT readout of your afr's and datalogging is worth it's weight in gold.

Like they said. From tuning with an SAFC to tuning with a fully programmable computer, it all depends on the goals. Like my car, I can no longer use an SAFC, because it can't handle the mods I have. I don't think every single person who's selling a car with mods should have to provide a dyno sheet, you can pretty much judge just how much horsepower sounds right by looking at the car in pictures, or even first hand. Let alone if you're buying a car, you should be test driving it. That would be a dead give-away as to whether it has the horsepower that's mentioned. No real dyno necessary. Just my 2 cents

[mx597turbo]

Originally Posted by anti tyler

I don't think every single person who's selling a car with mods should have to provide a dyno sheet, you can pretty much judge just how much horsepower sounds right by looking at the car in pictures, or even first hand. Let alone if you're buying a car, you should be test driving it. That would be a dead give-away as to whether it has the horsepower that's mentioned. No real dyno necessary. Just my 2 cents

I agree that a car with a mostly stock swap doesn't need a dyno sheet or run. I wouldn't care about either in a $4000 car. For that much, I would be happy with 300hp.

I'm talking about cars in the $8000+ range. For that price, you are usually looking at a 240 with substantial hp claims. As a buyer, you're making a bigger investment, so you would want to protect yourself.

Of course you would drive the car, but the dyno pushes the car just a little harder than you would on a test drive.

[ManoNegra]

op has a good point
specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US
even stock-ish motors with bolts would benefit from a good tune

[anti tyler]

Originally Posted by mx597turbo

I agree that a car with a mostly stock swap doesn't need a dyno sheet or run. I wouldn't care about either in a $4000 car. For that much, I would be happy with 300hp.

I'm talking about cars in the $8000+ range. For that price, you are usually looking at a 240 with substantial hp claims. As a buyer, you're making a bigger investment, so you would want to protect yourself.

Of course you would drive the car, but the dyno pushes the car just a little harder than you would on a test drive.

Well again that's really all in opinion. Someone could be selling the cleanest omg I'm going to jizz all over myself 240 you've ever seen for $8k with barely any motor mods. But I do see where you're coming from. Should someone who's invested money into the motor and set their selling price at $8k, then yes, I would slightly expect to see some number, Dyno? Not necessarily, leaning more towards receipts for the work. Obviously if you're selling a car for $8,000 then you've put a lot of money into it. Either way, I get your point. But I just personally wouldn't ask to see a dyno sheet. + I wouldn't even attempt to push a car as hard as the dyno does anyway. I've seen plenty of people run their car on the dyno for 4+ hours at a time and blow their shit up. Plain stupid.

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

op has a good point
specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US
even stock-ish motors with bolts would benefit from a good tune

What octane isn't available in the US? Unless it's 79. I've seen everything from 89-100 octane gas in Jacksonville. (Yes I know just because it's in FL doesn't mean it's nation-wide)

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

specially since SRs were made to run with an octane not available in the US

Love to know where you got that bullshit.

[delado]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Love to know where you got that bullshit.

+1 lol my sr has been in the U.S. for over 6 years running 93.

[Melonburst]

Any car stock or not benefits greatly from a properly tuned EMS. Back on topic though, you probably won't find many properly tuned cars here unless they're serious builders. The sad reality is drifters are pretty damned broke. Even the ones with money still settle for garbage EMS's like Power FC, Nistune and other similar standalones. For a nice and healthy tuned engine you really need separate cylinder fuel control and a rock solid, stable ignition system. Something along the lines of LinkG4, Haltech, or GEMS.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by delado

+1 lol my sr has been in the U.S. for over 6 years running 93.

likewise. its fine with 93 i have never heard this nonsense about this mythical gasoline usa does not have.


to the OP. you can tell what you are buying with a testdrive. if you are good and being around 240s for a while you WILL know what the car makes and whats it worth by looking at it and knowing what parts it has, engine, engine mods, etc. sometimes you can get good deals or not.

high end high horsepower cars many times will provide a dynosheet. stocking sr's will not and it will be DUMB to ask. you can always pay for the dyno yourself just like you said.

by the way, as a consumer, buying a MODIFIED car you automatically assume risk. if you want a grocery getter reliability buy stock cars... my 2.24 cents

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 420sx

it has, engine, engine mods, etc. sometimes you can get good deals or not.

high end high horsepower cars many times will provide a dynosheet. stocking sr's will not and it will be DUMB to ask. you can always pay for the dyno yourself just like you said.

What would a Dyno prove anyways? Dyno =/ Tune

A dyno sheet just shows what power the engine is making, and even then a dyno operator can bullshit it up to hell.

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

Further more, as I stated a Dyno shows NOTHING. If your worried about AFR or a proper tune, you need to see a tune map and even then it could be a billion years old or any little thing could have change, vaccum/boost leak et al. This is why people put gauges in their cars.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour... Any monkey can just as easily street tune a car by data logging. Your just making adjustments for AFR on a map and then uploading that. Its going to be far better than a dyno buy some shysters as its real world load. The only downsize is theres no "OMFG I made 475whp!!!" chart to go wave around like you just lost your virginity.

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.

[420sx]

i know that a dyno doesnt prove anything. i was trying to make a point about people having them period. you are correct, they are deemed unimportant by many.

[Corbic]

Originally Posted by 420sx

l
by the way, as a consumer, buying a MODIFIED car you automatically assume risk. if you want a grocery getter reliability buy stock cars... my 2.24 cents

Exactly. More over, don't buy even a stock sports car. The newest 240sx is now 13 years old. Assuming all owners where the "grocery store" types, it should have 156,000 miles and there are a lot of parts that just don't last that sort of mileage and time. So really, I'd be scared of any 240sx with all "stock parts" as that may mean nothing has ever been fixed and you'll be dropping $1,500 into it to catch up on basic maintenance.

[anti tyler]

Originally Posted by Corbic

What would a Dyno prove anyways? Dyno =/ Tune

A dyno sheet just shows what power the engine is making, and even then a dyno operator can bullshit it up to hell.

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

Further more, as I stated a Dyno shows NOTHING. If your worried about AFR or a proper tune, you need to see a tune map and even then it could be a billion years old or any little thing could have change, vaccum/boost leak et al. This is why people put gauges in their cars.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour... Any monkey can just as easily street tune a car by data logging. Your just making adjustments for AFR on a map and then uploading that. Its going to be far better than a dyno buy some shysters as its real world load. The only downsize is theres no "OMFG I made 475whp!!!" chart to go wave around like you just lost your virginity.

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.

Originally Posted by mx597turbo

Looking through the for sale section, I notice almost every car for sale has an engine swap, and is modded, but only very few cars actually have dyno sheet. How are these cars tuned? Just wideband afr?

Also, are the ecu's flashable, or do you need a standalone programmable? How do you change the rpm limiter?

Just wondering this, because I generally call bullshit on any claimed HP numbers without a dyno sheet.

Even though I don't agree with the need to dyno, don't bash the poor guys lol. After all it was the OP who originally was pretty much just asking. To simplify all of this thread;

Q: How are these cars for sale on here tuned?
A: Ask the seller, most of then (as explained) are stock motors with bolt on parts, thus the need for an expensive tuner ex. Haltech, AEM, Apexi FC, GReddy E-manage, is not there.
Less modified motors use, or CAN use, simple piggy-back controllers ex. SAFC, MSD, or even just flashed stock ECU's, Enthaply, JWT etc.
P.S: You can't tune with a(n) Wide-band. It's just a monitor of your A/F ratio.

Q: Are the ecu's flashable? OR do you need a standalone programmable?
A: YES/ NO like I stated before, you can send your ecu off to get flashed, or even solder on your own little magical chip and flash it yourself. (personally I hate shit like that so use that at your own risk)
A2: You don't need a stand alone ecu for all applications, if you want to throw $1200 at your car for an AEM EMS 2 like I did, I'd hope you're doing it because you have the many mods on your car that a piggy-back SAFC can't handle. That or your money tree is blooming.


That being said, don't be the douche who goes looking for a car, and bashes ever single seller because he doesn't have a dyno sheet. It's not that huge of a deal. If you were buying the $27,000 Enjuku racing drift car, yeah ask for a dyno sheet. But if you're asking Joe Blow from down the street if he has a dyno sheet for his 1993 SR20DE-T with a T3/T4 that he claims is pushing 320rwhp @ 15lbs, then you should re-consider your knowledge of cars and their capabilities.


THAT IS ALL!

(this wasn't meant to demean anyone on here. don't get me wrong, I'm and asshole and all, but yeah. never mind.)

[Prime]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

...octane not available in the US...

Originally Posted by anti tyler

What octane isn't available in the US? Unless it's 79. I've seen everything from 89-100 octane gas in Jacksonville. (Yes I know just because it's in FL doesn't mean it's nation-wide)

Originally Posted by Corbic

Love to know where you got that bullshit.

I think he's referring to the fact that the US uses the AKI rating system and Japan uses RON only. Since AKI=(RON+MON)/2 and we don't know the MON rating of their fuel, there's no real way to know how they compare. IIRC the SR was supposed to run 97 RON from the factory. If you can find a station in the States selling it, bravo.

[towlie]

^not that it matters...

As previously stated SR's run just dandy on good ol supreme

[nathanong87]

my butt dyno says it's feels fast

[mx597turbo]

Originally Posted by Corbic

The OP has no idea what the hell he is talking about. Few people on LSTech or Protouring post up dyno sheets with their 4 sale ads. Also, swapping a SR does not require a tune or a dyno since your using the original ECU.

A dyno tune is also not $100 more. Its typically $100-150 an hour

Then again, that is what drag strips are for - 1/4 + trap tells you more than any stinking dyno and even if you "Cant hook up" that tells even more.

First, I was referring to corvetteforum.com, not ls1tech. The LS1 stock makes about 300rwhp. I agree no dyno is necessary for someone saying their car is at 400rwhp. But honestly, if someone is claiming 450rwhp (a 50%) increase, I would like to see some proof. Receipts can be faked just as easily as a dyno sheet. Which is why I would pay for their dyno run. I would have to be pretty much set on the car, all numbers worked out, and that would seal the deal. I wouldn't ask the owned to pay for it. For an sr/ka, it would be when the seller claims their car is >400hp.

As far as dyno tunes costing so much, You can get a mail order tune for both a Corevette / FBody or Mustang for about $150. I know of several local tuners (with good reps) who will dyno tune for about $300-$400. So you're looking at $150 - $250 more than a mail order.

I also agree that trap speed is probably the best indicator of real world hp. 1/4 times are very driver-dependent.

[mx597turbo]

Originally Posted by anti tyler

That being said, don't be the douche who goes looking for a car, and bashes ever single seller because he doesn't have a dyno sheet. It's not that huge of a deal. If you were buying the $27,000 Enjuku racing drift car, yeah ask for a dyno sheet. But if you're asking Joe Blow from down the street if he has a dyno sheet for his 1993 SR20DE-T with a T3/T4 that he claims is pushing 320rwhp @ 15lbs, then you should re-consider your knowledge of cars and their capabilities.

I agree 100% and I wouldn't bash anyone for not having a sheet. But like I said, when someone claims 400rwhp (and has an asking price to match), I need a little more than their word on it.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by mx597turbo

I agree 100% and I wouldn't bash anyone for not having a sheet. But like I said, when someone claims 400rwhp (and has an asking price to match), I need a little more than their word on it.

once again you can tell by the mods. you can look at the parts and know right away the range of power. it just takes experience.

just look at it. would ya?

[ManoNegra]

Originally Posted by Corbic

Love to know where you got that bullshit.

same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

and btw, a basic dyno pull will show you power/torque output AND AFR
I don't see how that wouldn't a worthwhile thing specially since a baseline pull is ~$50.

[420sx]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

those popping noises are usually due to leaking atmospheric bov's because it makes the car run rich. lower grade of gasoline burns faster thus making it run leaner. popping is due to the rich condition

[s13 @ fullboost]

i tune my car via my tuner? standalone is key!

[SoBay240guy]

Originally Posted by ManoNegra

same place I got the KA/SR transmission bullshit

SRs were made to run Japanese premium gas
their 100 octane gas in the RON system translates to ~95 US octane
many places in the US have 93 available but in CA it's 91 for the most part
e85 is available in very few places but only people I know that use it regularly are track guys... with tuned engines

you think those popping noises your car makes on decel are supposed to be there?

so yes, SRs would benefit from tuning even if running basic set ups

and btw, a basic dyno pull will show you power/torque output AND AFR
I don't see how that wouldn't a worthwhile thing specially since a baseline pull is ~$50.

Don't feed the stupid troll Juan, he just likes the attention, and if you use such large words he will miss the point anyway

OP sorry this thread got all zilvia'd out you had a very reasonable question and train of thought alot of us DO share...you know what they say about the loudest 5% though right?

you are right a DYNO sheet/pull should come with any car with more than bolt-ons that is being sold as running, otherwise who knows what kind of basket case you are really getting,,,, it's for sale for a reason right???