240/180sx truck conversions - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

AutoDestruct · 03-10-2004, 11:35 PM

I have been on a mission from the salvage god to try and find a way to save my clipped 240. It has a medium sized wound to the Passenger rear-quarter panel. A place that I know can easily lead to a fatality of the frame. I understand this and that one should try and repair instead of replace. And by replace I mean the 1500 dollars to cut and weld on a replacement. I am trying to avoid the loss of my second S-series child as their lives are to valuable to waste.

What by far Intrigue's me more is the conversion of the 240/180 to something resembling K-styles APC,iknowIknow, sil80 truck. This car was bought for a 1000 dollars and has lots of life and a replacment heart in it. I am not really interested in returning it to it's former semi-stock'd state. I have only a few pics of the K-style truck and only 1 good shot straight into the "bed" from the rear and 1 from outside at the drivers seat and the Lexan?? rear window. All the others are of little Technical value.

The amount of Info I have gathered is not that much, as is obvious. I have searched the hell out of this forum and the net at large and have been mostly empty handed. I may very well be completely missing something or have not looked in the correct fashion. But alas I am at wits end. If anyone has Any info on this conversion from silvia, 180, or skyline to the truck format your help would be greatly appreciated. Anything will help. Pics, points in the right directions, advice, phone #'s, anything. I am sitting on the money currently and have garage space as well. The Frame seems to be very much intact, wheels are straight, seems and hatch all line up, Just some effort and direction needed. In my mind a "Bed" type structure and a external Roll bar will take care of any ills and weaknesses left from the accident and hatch removal. The K-style setup looks to be a durable replacement to the upper rear of the hatch 240sx bodystyle.

I have gotten as far as looking at the structure of the diamond plated steel and the rollbar. The car also(K-style) seems to have had several incarnations, as roll bar structures look different in some pics.

Please Please please Help. I can easily photo document the project and post online for the benefit of others. This is a golden oppurtunity to have a 240 to mold as you would clay. The goal is something Akin to K-style, not a copy per say. Just recover and some original performance enginnering. Not much to lose, and I am to take a try.

Lend a fellow 24 enthusiast a hand. Thank You for reading.
K.H. AutoDestruct

No Motiv · 03-11-2004, 07:27 AM

good luck.....i have no idea how your gonna pull it off......thats gonna destroy your savings, credit.......but i havent seen one state side......wait isnt one of APC's team orange cars a truck back and S13 front.....i'll post pics for you later i think i have some at home

Dousan_PG · 03-11-2004, 07:28 AM

you shoul dhave bought old option mags about 2 years ago
had the whole breakdown of the car..

good luck to yas. hope u got a fat wallet!

AutoDestruct · 03-11-2004, 07:44 AM

So I guess that the most straight forward and obvious is the most likely. Pull out the hatch. Then begin to dismantle the side C-pillar windows. What you do from here I guess is the issue. I would like to have the ability to remove either the entire rear facing window, or the entire improvised Window and paneling so as to allow a more open feel for summer. Since this does not have to be my daily driver extreme durability is not a neccesity although it would be nice. The colder months would need it to be replaced as I live in PA and it rains alot and 50% of the year it is cold. So a chopped off top car like I have seen out west is not a option or even desired. I was thinking of some sort of attachment to the hinges that previously held the hatch. A sheetmetal and Lexan panel on hinges could swing down to cover this area immeadiatly behind the driver. The roll bar would probably put a end to something functioning like that though. Although the hinges and its exsisting hardware and ability to seal out the weather would be a nice jump on the Vertical paneling. Some sort of Plastic or other pliable yet sturdy material could be attached around the non-attached 3 remaining edges and then fastened to points on the vehicle to make some sort of seal while a mechanical link or latch at the bottom of the panel would take out excess movement. The next complication would be the fabrication of a Bed/tub and RollBar and then tying these into the vehicle while still allowing access to vitals such as the fuel pump and shock towers. I have to think some more and measure some stuff on the heap. Ciao.

Dousan_PG · 03-11-2004, 07:45 AM

ive seen it done on silvia (coupe) too..pretty cool
cant wait to see your project
go full roll cage too...in the truck bed and cockpit area

AutoDestruct · 03-11-2004, 08:00 AM

I appreciate your words of encouragement especially yours dousan. Your input is always welcome, even if sometimes you get me a little hot. with your

's. The option mags, yeah I know. I think my buddy has some older ones I have to find his miserable ass.

The unique aspect I think is what is making me willing to go with this sort of relatively "out there" idea. I was out yesterday in the burg and I come out of a store with my dad and there is a Red 91 style NSX with HKS cans on it, I'm checking it out, walking around it from about 10 feet back, when Beepbeep. Some kid pops the doors open with the remote and walks over giving me the stare. He had to be all of 18. I just want something unique, I'll never be able to keep up on pure power and looks.

I just think the K-style is hot.

I have crap loads of parts and raw materials laying around, A kick ace welder, A drag racer uncle, my brain, and a car with nothing to lose. Might as well. I personally think the most diffucult issue will be the bed and roll cage/bar setup and incorporating that to the exsisting structure of the rear quarter panels. I want that "bed" to be able to lift out so I can get at things if need be, but the Rollbar I think will somehow need to be attached to the rear uprights. This is why I am scouring everything for info. I need a pic of the bed without the diamond plated sheetmetal on it, it's covering up all of their hard thought work. I want to see their setup for solving this problem. I trust their expierences and tackling of the issue a little bit more than my own. That one pic could help me in a world of ways.

I won't mind going under for something like this. I think it would just be slick. Not the fastest, or the sexiest, but pretty cool none the less. Like a miniature Nissan 240 Pikes Peak Tundra akin to that stillen? or Rod Millen? one. Perfection of weight distrubtion and such aren't so important. More about something a little more original than most. I wonder about the legalities of something like this thou. I can't think of anything obviously illegal about it.

K.H. Auto

AutoDestruct · 03-12-2004, 10:38 AM

Played around with shapes of the B-pillar. Taped off the car with masking tape and sheets of paper so I could better see what I was trying to go for. Raked through K-styles site, wish I knew Japanese. Printed and Cut-up a bunch of Pics and then rescaned them back in as pics to play with shapes. The Body shop guru for my locale is coming from his shop to check out the car and give some insight and see if he wants to try and take part in some of the remolding for the top of bed's edge. Stuff is starting to pan out. I feel like I am at least moving some where.

I need to find a heli-Arc so I can zap some alum. plating together for a rear wall and the flooring of the bed.

More to come.
K.H. Auto.

HiPSI · 03-13-2004, 08:46 AM

words of advice.... build the entire cage into the car before you cut a single bodypanel off of it. by cutting all of that body off you're weakening the car's structure greatly and it can cause the unibody to do odd things. the cage will assure all stays straight when you begin the fun part of hacking the rear to pieces.

element240 · 03-13-2004, 01:28 PM

i bet jesse james could do it in one week

the240sxer95 · 03-13-2004, 01:56 PM

haha wow! what a umm intresting project

good luck !!

gogeeta13 · 03-13-2004, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by element240

i bet jesse james could do it in one week

approach monster garage LOL!

I bet they would throw in an SR and make the truck bed all in a week!

Ryan of Velocity · 03-13-2004, 04:31 PM

"even if sometimes you get me a little hot."

That did not come out right. lol.

AutoDestruct · 03-13-2004, 05:15 PM

Well you know I'm a little confused :ghey:

Ha Ha. Nah, sometimes tho' after reading a infamous dousan reply or post I would just get this image of a bitter man hunched over a computer calling people by the screen name idiots. I think I was putting a little to much thought in it. He is right most of the time, I think that was also what rubbed me the wrong way. He would be right, and he would tell you so. Right-O Dousan? He's cool, I look up to him in a weird sort of way. I mean check out his car. Fine,huh. I like it. It's Purrr-Tee

Progress Report: The frame and body work guy that I use alot, since i am AutoDestruct, came over today. He said the frame looks fine but he wants to throw it on the rack to be sure. Might as well. I definitely think the Rollcage/bar is a critical piece, I understand that the Quarter panel is part of the uni-body. I just wonder how guys that throw on Wide bodies get away with cutting part of it out and don't have any wicked flex. I think I am going with a 30mm flare myself, 50mm is just to damn big. On the K-style the bed is made out of that diamond plate aluminium sheeting I believe. I would think that would also give some strength to the whole back half.

Anyway. I worked at a horse farm all day. Shoveling you know what. Mind numbing, there were 4 A-10's going on runs all day although. When that gun goes off it sounds like a giant fart or a monotone 1 to 2 seconds of distant thunder. Incredible, the infamous iron flying cross.

K.H. Auto.

andrave · 03-16-2004, 12:57 PM

that should be not that difficult... replace the roof with a roll bar, use a sawzall, and find a minitruck rear window and cut the whole rear out of the cabin. weld it in, and weld in a bed (diamondplate would work, thats what the one I saw used).

ghost240SX · 11-02-2005, 11:00 AM

AutoDestruction:

I'm in the same boat you are except my 240 has never been in an accident

I'm planning this modification for my car, but there is so little to compare it to!

I have the experience of a Trained Custom Fabricator and Machinist at my disposal (He works Building Custom Choppers)
A plasma Torch, Sawzall, and anything else I need, a Rollbar is a definite neccessity in this project.
and interesting addition to this project which I am planning on doing which could solve the open back in the summer, closed during cold seasons is molding or mounting a hatch from an SUV that has a power sliding window in it.
Toyota 4-Runners had this option and this is what I am planning for my car, as for access for fuel pump, and Strut Towers etc, Cut hatches in the sheet metal or Diamond plating!
Go for it is my suggestion, cause it will be unique and a looker!

HyperTek · 11-02-2005, 11:44 AM

did you happen to read the age of this thread...?

this also a simular thread up withen page 1 or 2 about the same conversion

theicecreamdan · 11-02-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutoDestruct

Well you know I'm a little confused :ghey:

rubbed me the wrong way. .

hehehehe this thread is full of tension isnt it?

240SeXy! · 11-02-2005, 01:49 PM

serious GG on bringing up this old thread, I have a Thread on the Process, browse page 1 or 2... wow.... bad rep* people dont learn do they austin?

240SeXy! · 11-02-2005, 01:51 PM

well on the other hand dont go to the new thread, information shouldnt be offered to retards.... You get the special class, and the short buss ride home....

.::SR20_240::. · 11-02-2005, 02:49 PM

here you go i dont have any info but i do have some pics and video, i dont know if you have seen these or not...if you want to see the vids just let me know and ill post them.

240SeXy! · 11-02-2005, 03:26 PM

DID you not read 3 msgs above? ^ wow I just said there is a new thread for this..... gimmie 1 sec ill link it... wow dude.. w.e I started it.. here i should beat you with a broom.

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=92052

^ no go there no more whoring of this dead horse thread..... mod's close plz..

go there post pics then it can be a archive if we get more info there is much on there......

03-10-2004, 11:35 PM	#1
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	240/180sx truck conversions I have been on a mission from the salvage god to try and find a way to save my clipped 240. It has a medium sized wound to the Passenger rear-quarter panel. A place that I know can easily lead to a fatality of the frame. I understand this and that one should try and repair instead of replace. And by replace I mean the 1500 dollars to cut and weld on a replacement. I am trying to avoid the loss of my second S-series child as their lives are to valuable to waste. What by far Intrigue's me more is the conversion of the 240/180 to something resembling K-styles APC,iknowIknow, sil80 truck. This car was bought for a 1000 dollars and has lots of life and a replacment heart in it. I am not really interested in returning it to it's former semi-stock'd state. I have only a few pics of the K-style truck and only 1 good shot straight into the "bed" from the rear and 1 from outside at the drivers seat and the Lexan?? rear window. All the others are of little Technical value. The amount of Info I have gathered is not that much, as is obvious. I have searched the hell out of this forum and the net at large and have been mostly empty handed. I may very well be completely missing something or have not looked in the correct fashion. But alas I am at wits end. If anyone has Any info on this conversion from silvia, 180, or skyline to the truck format your help would be greatly appreciated. Anything will help. Pics, points in the right directions, advice, phone #'s, anything. I am sitting on the money currently and have garage space as well. The Frame seems to be very much intact, wheels are straight, seems and hatch all line up, Just some effort and direction needed. In my mind a "Bed" type structure and a external Roll bar will take care of any ills and weaknesses left from the accident and hatch removal. The K-style setup looks to be a durable replacement to the upper rear of the hatch 240sx bodystyle. I have gotten as far as looking at the structure of the diamond plated steel and the rollbar. The car also(K-style) seems to have had several incarnations, as roll bar structures look different in some pics. Please Please please Help. I can easily photo document the project and post online for the benefit of others. This is a golden oppurtunity to have a 240 to mold as you would clay. The goal is something Akin to K-style, not a copy per say. Just recover and some original performance enginnering. Not much to lose, and I am to take a try. Lend a fellow 24 enthusiast a hand. Thank You for reading. K.H. AutoDestruct

03-11-2004, 07:27 AM	#2
No Motiv Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 1,189 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	good luck.....i have no idea how your gonna pull it off......thats gonna destroy your savings, credit.......but i havent seen one state side......wait isnt one of APC's team orange cars a truck back and S13 front.....i'll post pics for you later i think i have some at home __________________ -Austin My name is Shake-Zula, the mic rulah, the old schoolah, you wanna trip, I'll break it to ya. Frylock and I'm on top rock you like a cop, Meatwad you're up next with your knock-knock. Meatwad make the money see, Meatwad get the honeys G. Drivin in my car, livin like a star, ice on my fingers and my toes and I'm a Taurus. Cause we are the Aqua Teens, make the homeys say ho and the girlies wanna scream.

03-11-2004, 07:28 AM	#3
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 46 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	you shoul dhave bought old option mags about 2 years ago had the whole breakdown of the car.. good luck to yas. hope u got a fat wallet! __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

03-11-2004, 07:45 AM	#5
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 46 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	ive seen it done on silvia (coupe) too..pretty cool cant wait to see your project go full roll cage too...in the truck bed and cockpit area __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

03-13-2004, 08:46 AM	#8
HiPSI Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Buford, GA Posts: 522 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	words of advice.... build the entire cage into the car before you cut a single bodypanel off of it. by cutting all of that body off you're weakening the car's structure greatly and it can cause the unibody to do odd things. the cage will assure all stays straight when you begin the fun part of hacking the rear to pieces. __________________ SR motor set/clip $2500+, FMIC kit $700+, Downpipe $100+, 3" exhaust $500+, Misc install parts $100+, Shop labor for install $1000+ and you still only make 220rwhp for $5000 so what's so CHEAP about the SR swap again?

03-11-2004, 07:44 AM	#4
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So I guess that the most straight forward and obvious is the most likely. Pull out the hatch. Then begin to dismantle the side C-pillar windows. What you do from here I guess is the issue. I would like to have the ability to remove either the entire rear facing window, or the entire improvised Window and paneling so as to allow a more open feel for summer. Since this does not have to be my daily driver extreme durability is not a neccesity although it would be nice. The colder months would need it to be replaced as I live in PA and it rains alot and 50% of the year it is cold. So a chopped off top car like I have seen out west is not a option or even desired. I was thinking of some sort of attachment to the hinges that previously held the hatch. A sheetmetal and Lexan panel on hinges could swing down to cover this area immeadiatly behind the driver. The roll bar would probably put a end to something functioning like that though. Although the hinges and its exsisting hardware and ability to seal out the weather would be a nice jump on the Vertical paneling. Some sort of Plastic or other pliable yet sturdy material could be attached around the non-attached 3 remaining edges and then fastened to points on the vehicle to make some sort of seal while a mechanical link or latch at the bottom of the panel would take out excess movement. The next complication would be the fabrication of a Bed/tub and RollBar and then tying these into the vehicle while still allowing access to vitals such as the fuel pump and shock towers. I have to think some more and measure some stuff on the heap. Ciao.

03-11-2004, 08:00 AM	#6
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I appreciate your words of encouragement especially yours dousan. Your input is always welcome, even if sometimes you get me a little hot. with your 's. The option mags, yeah I know. I think my buddy has some older ones I have to find his miserable ass. The unique aspect I think is what is making me willing to go with this sort of relatively "out there" idea. I was out yesterday in the burg and I come out of a store with my dad and there is a Red 91 style NSX with HKS cans on it, I'm checking it out, walking around it from about 10 feet back, when Beepbeep. Some kid pops the doors open with the remote and walks over giving me the stare. He had to be all of 18. I just want something unique, I'll never be able to keep up on pure power and looks. I just think the K-style is hot. I have crap loads of parts and raw materials laying around, A kick ace welder, A drag racer uncle, my brain, and a car with nothing to lose. Might as well. I personally think the most diffucult issue will be the bed and roll cage/bar setup and incorporating that to the exsisting structure of the rear quarter panels. I want that "bed" to be able to lift out so I can get at things if need be, but the Rollbar I think will somehow need to be attached to the rear uprights. This is why I am scouring everything for info. I need a pic of the bed without the diamond plated sheetmetal on it, it's covering up all of their hard thought work. I want to see their setup for solving this problem. I trust their expierences and tackling of the issue a little bit more than my own. That one pic could help me in a world of ways. I won't mind going under for something like this. I think it would just be slick. Not the fastest, or the sexiest, but pretty cool none the less. Like a miniature Nissan 240 Pikes Peak Tundra akin to that stillen? or Rod Millen? one. Perfection of weight distrubtion and such aren't so important. More about something a little more original than most. I wonder about the legalities of something like this thou. I can't think of anything obviously illegal about it. K.H. Auto

03-12-2004, 10:38 AM	#7
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Played around with shapes of the B-pillar. Taped off the car with masking tape and sheets of paper so I could better see what I was trying to go for. Raked through K-styles site, wish I knew Japanese. Printed and Cut-up a bunch of Pics and then rescaned them back in as pics to play with shapes. The Body shop guru for my locale is coming from his shop to check out the car and give some insight and see if he wants to try and take part in some of the remolding for the top of bed's edge. Stuff is starting to pan out. I feel like I am at least moving some where. I need to find a heli-Arc so I can zap some alum. plating together for a rear wall and the flooring of the bed. More to come. K.H. Auto.

03-13-2004, 01:28 PM	#9
element240 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: MI Age: 39 Posts: 735 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i bet jesse james could do it in one week

03-13-2004, 01:56 PM	#10
the240sxer95 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2002 Location: cali cali Posts: 1,322 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	haha wow! what a umm intresting project good luck !!

03-13-2004, 04:31 PM	#12
Ryan of Velocity Zilvia.net Advertiser Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis Age: 46 Posts: 223 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	"even if sometimes you get me a little hot." That did not come out right. lol. __________________ Works Yamaguchi www.worksyamaguchi.com 8253 Indy Lane Indianapolis, IN 46214 (317) 273-8809

03-13-2004, 05:15 PM	#13
AutoDestruct Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Burg, Harrisburg Posts: 437 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well you know I'm a little confused :ghey: Ha Ha. Nah, sometimes tho' after reading a infamous dousan reply or post I would just get this image of a bitter man hunched over a computer calling people by the screen name idiots. I think I was putting a little to much thought in it. He is right most of the time, I think that was also what rubbed me the wrong way. He would be right, and he would tell you so. Right-O Dousan? He's cool, I look up to him in a weird sort of way. I mean check out his car. Fine,huh. I like it. It's Purrr-Tee Progress Report: The frame and body work guy that I use alot, since i am AutoDestruct, came over today. He said the frame looks fine but he wants to throw it on the rack to be sure. Might as well. I definitely think the Rollcage/bar is a critical piece, I understand that the Quarter panel is part of the uni-body. I just wonder how guys that throw on Wide bodies get away with cutting part of it out and don't have any wicked flex. I think I am going with a 30mm flare myself, 50mm is just to damn big. On the K-style the bed is made out of that diamond plate aluminium sheeting I believe. I would think that would also give some strength to the whole back half. Anyway. I worked at a horse farm all day. Shoveling you know what. Mind numbing, there were 4 A-10's going on runs all day although. When that gun goes off it sounds like a giant fart or a monotone 1 to 2 seconds of distant thunder. Incredible, the infamous iron flying cross. K.H. Auto.

03-16-2004, 12:57 PM	#14
andrave BANNED Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Burton WV Posts: 2,350 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	that should be not that difficult... replace the roof with a roll bar, use a sawzall, and find a minitruck rear window and cut the whole rear out of the cabin. weld it in, and weld in a bed (diamondplate would work, thats what the one I saw used).

11-02-2005, 11:00 AM	#15
ghost240SX Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 6 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	AutoDestruction: I'm in the same boat you are except my 240 has never been in an accident I'm planning this modification for my car, but there is so little to compare it to! I have the experience of a Trained Custom Fabricator and Machinist at my disposal (He works Building Custom Choppers) A plasma Torch, Sawzall, and anything else I need, a Rollbar is a definite neccessity in this project. and interesting addition to this project which I am planning on doing which could solve the open back in the summer, closed during cold seasons is molding or mounting a hatch from an SUV that has a power sliding window in it. Toyota 4-Runners had this option and this is what I am planning for my car, as for access for fuel pump, and Strut Towers etc, Cut hatches in the sheet metal or Diamond plating! Go for it is my suggestion, cause it will be unique and a looker!

11-02-2005, 11:44 AM	#16
HyperTek Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cali Posts: 13,224 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	did you happen to read the age of this thread...? this also a simular thread up withen page 1 or 2 about the same conversion __________________ Keep it Classy

11-02-2005, 01:49 PM	#18
240SeXy! BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: CA, SoCal! Posts: 374 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	serious GG on bringing up this old thread, I have a Thread on the Process, browse page 1 or 2... wow.... bad rep* people dont learn do they austin?

11-02-2005, 01:51 PM	#19
240SeXy! BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: CA, SoCal! Posts: 374 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	well on the other hand dont go to the new thread, information shouldnt be offered to retards.... You get the special class, and the short buss ride home....

11-02-2005, 02:49 PM	#20
.::SR20_240::. BANNED Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: south CA Age: 40 Posts: 324 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	here you go i dont have any info but i do have some pics and video, i dont know if you have seen these or not...if you want to see the vids just let me know and ill post them.

11-02-2005, 03:26 PM	#21
240SeXy! BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: CA, SoCal! Posts: 374 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	DID you not read 3 msgs above? ^ wow I just said there is a new thread for this..... gimmie 1 sec ill link it... wow dude.. w.e I started it.. here i should beat you with a broom. http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=92052 ^ no go there no more whoring of this dead horse thread..... mod's close plz.. go there post pics then it can be a archive if we get more info there is much on there......