Questions for painters

[wrx112]

Hey all, did a search and nothing came up. I was wondering is it really necessary for the metal body parts (ie fender, hood, etc..) to be strip down to the bare metal before applying primer? Or is it just fine to just leave some old paint and rounghen up the surface for the primer to stick? Which is the best results and what method should i use (eg sand paper paint stripper etc..) for the job. I want to do the stripping and primering because I dont want a 3 color body pannel. In the future I will take it into a shop to have it painted. Let me know

mike

[monkey7]

Here is a site with some good info:
http://www.thebugshop.org/bsfqpnt.htm

I forgot if it was from here or somewhere else, I just put it in my bookmarks.

[wrx112]

thanx for the link. I still am not sure what i wish to do yet. Its gonna be a daily im not looking for crazy show but decent enough. Any other inputs. Cheers

mike

[Globalsilence]

If it's the origonal paint then it's fine to just scuff it up and prime it. You dont think that all body shops strip the entire car to paint it do you?

Edit: also you can use 400 grit to scuff the surface then prime it, wetsand the primer with 600 - 1000 grit and then paint.

[wrx112]

^^ thanx for the input i might do that. I heard the hardcore show cars are all stripped to bare metal before any painting goes on. Isn't that true?

mike

[infinitexsound]

if u have many layers of paint already on the panel, and u dont want anymore... just get a fukn DA and use 80 grit sand disc and sand it all off ... that would take it down fast..... then etch prime and 2-3 coats of primer.

why would u wet sand a primer with 1000? thats unheard of.... thats just stupid.. if u dont wanna do any wetsanding.. just block it with 220, DA 500.. and ur good to go.. u dont need guidecoat really if u know what ur doin, but for a inexperience person like u i would suggest it, so that u fully go over ur work

show cars are stripped down to metal then body work then prime block prime block prime block, and then 10 months later its ready for paint....

[wrx112]

Really why 10 months so long? What would a decent paint job consist of, such as layers and techniques? I thought 1000 wet sand is not needed as well but i didnt want to question his work. Cheers

mike

[infinitexsound]

cause it takes that long or even longer................ show cars just dont get done over nite..... theyre very meticulous... so meticulous that sometimes the judges even count the threads of a bolt to see if its perfect for all the others..... im talkin about hotrods of course not import riceboys show cars...

layers in paint go as this from oem.... metal seal paint from the factory then the base and clear.... that how oem finishes are from the factory....usually..

but for the autobody industry when workin on a car usually its.... sealer,base,clear.. primer is technically a need be... if theres bodywork then theres some stuff added before

primer is technically a filler....

[m0rex]

Show car. Lots of detail into them. The paint alone can cost more than the f'ing car. So having to resand paint that is that expensive is even more expensive. So do it right the first time or go back and regret it.

[BaliLover]

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

if u have many layers of paint already on the panel, and u dont want anymore... just get a fukn DA and use 80 grit sand disc and sand it all off ... that would take it down fast..... then etch prime and 2-3 coats of primer.

Do you even work in a body shop? If you have a car with many layers of paint and attempt to DA it all off with 80 grit, you're going to have a panel thats very ripply. The chances of being able to DA it all off while keeping the sanding disc flat are slim to none, and if you sand on a metal panel long enough while trying to get all the paint off, you're going to create heat and cause warpage.

Originally Posted by infinitexsound

why would u wet sand a primer with 1000? thats unheard of.... thats just stupid.. if u dont wanna do any wetsanding.. just block it with 220, DA 500.. and ur good to go.. u dont need guidecoat really if u know what ur doin, but for a inexperience person like u i would suggest it, so that u fully go over ur work

Because the smoother the panel to be painted is, the less material is required to fill the scratches. A primered panel wetsanded with 1000 grit also gives you the ability to look down the side of the panel and see ripples and any dings/dents that might have been previously overlooked. If you sand the panel with 320, 400, or 600 if won't have a smooth enough surface to be able to do this. So no, Its not unheard of, and its not stupid, its just an extra step that is taken sometimes to insure perfection. I've known many bodymen who would apply a guide coat over their primer then block sand it wet with 600 or 1000.

[infinitexsound]

guide coat.. why would u need 1000 grit to prove ur self again

bodyman arent painters...........all the time......

before u try to inform me about autobody.... i can assure u that i know what im talkin about... try sandin 1000 grit sand paper on just a panel... and tell me how long it would take to get all of it off.....FOREVER...........so if u like wasting time and money then more power to u...

[Ritz S14]

Yeah infinite is right. Why the hell would you want to take your primer down with anything over 500 grit? First of all, it's MORE work! If you know paint, then you know your base can fill 500grit sand marks. Fine grit sand paper 800+ also does not last as long as course sand paper, so you'll be using more to do less. Lastly, using fine grit sand paper could possibly warp the panel with the amount of sanding tha tis required to keep taking material off the car.

[theicecreamdan]

you're not taking it down, you are smoothing it out, if you go down to 1000 you dont have to fill in big gnarly scratches with your top coat.

[infinitexsound]

u dont really see scratches........ even with 500.......... the main colors u see scratches thru the clear.... usually is gold and silver..and on those cars u have to take it up to 800 grit.... anyone whos done some painting for years knows this...

but i guess im just some forum jumper on the intraweb that doesnt know what im talkin about...

[wrx112]

Thanx for the input guyz. Infinite you seem to be a person who knows the basic needs to get the job done great input. Balilover you are a guy who likes to spend time into small detail parts hardcore style, more power to you for being a perfectionist. Thanx for all the input. Should i even sand and primer my car at all since it will go into a shop that is charging me $2,500 for their work? So what would you guys expect from a $2,5-$3000 paint job would consist of?

[infinitexsound]

sand, all the dents filled, and primed where the body work is... sealed and paint........ cut and rub should be part of the deal... make sure its acknowledge..

[wrx112]

Thnax. Am i expecting them to paint the interior and engine bay? Also will they strip parts (i.e. Fender, bumper, etc) to paint individually? Let me know

mike

[infinitexsound]

no engine bay, no jambs unless acknowledge but its highly doubtful... no stripping unless u have multi layers of paint. or bodywork..

[BaliLover]

Depends on where you are, but for $2500-$3000 you should be getting door jambs and the radiator support and edges of the fenders, but not the engine bay. They should also be removing things like door handles, taillights, window squeegies, etc. Dents should be taken care of, make sure to go over them with the shop before hand. I agree with Infinite here, also make sure they wetsand and buff the car before delivery to rid it of orange peel. And I don't expect them to be doing any stripping unless the old paint has serious problems or the car has been painted multiple times.

And infinitexsound, I'd not doubting your knowledge, but there is more than 1 technique when painting a car, and yes, when I am doing show quality work, I take my primer down from 400, to 600, then to 1000 grit. Call me a perfectionist if you want, but when a customer is paying $10,000 for a job, I try to give them what they pay for. I work at a custom shop, Kandys are our specialty, but we'll do whatever the customer is willing to pay for, down to fabricating suicide hinges for a 300C. I was merely answering your question when you asked why the hell anyone would sand primer with 1000 grit. Just because you don't, doesn't mean the people that do are wrong.

And Ritz, you can go over 320 grit with basecoat and still cover fine with most colors. Using a fine grit sandpaper will NOT warp the metal, if it did, it would make wetsanding the top coat a problem since often times it is block sanded by hand going from 600 grit all the way to 1500 grit, then buffed.

[infinitexsound]

try 80k for a show paint..........im not doubting ur skills either just that i know the process and blah blah blah etc etc etc.. ive done it long enough to know what i say and can do... but lets not get into any verbal dispute.. im done.. with this thread its chewed to hell and brought back to life........

[zero.counter]

Originally Posted by BaliLover

Just because you don't, doesn't mean the people that do are wrong.

We've been through this before.

[SimpleS14]

Had to bump this thread (besides make a new one) because I have some questions. I've started to read the site on the link someone posted, but I figure I ask questions too.

Say this is my first time, would I be save to just do these steps: scuff up the paint surface (400 grit), primer (2 coats), sand (600 grit), base (3 coats), sand (800-1000 grit), clear, wetsand (? grit), buff with rubbing compound.

What air compressor and gun are you guys using?

Can I paint my car outside? if so...are the results worse during fall and winter?

TIA to anyone that can help me out.

[infinitexsound]

PM me if u wanna know the deal