98 and 91 kade motors any different?

[91ka]

Is the 91 kade's head and block and the 98 kade's head and block exactly the same? my definition of a motor is the head and block (for nissan engines at least lol). i heard you can directly bolt up 98 (s14's) head and block (engine swap). and someone told me i could just use my s13 parts such as wiring and manifold to the 91ka chasis (s13) if you use everything else from the s13 such as the manifold. i hope this makes sense. ill reply to any questions. thankz

also is swaping motor and tranny for $600 for labor a good deal?

[Neejay]

The head and the blocks are the same because essentially, its the same engine, just with different bolt-ons.

And yes, you would have to use the s13's intake manifold and exhaust manifold (or just buy a header), and the ecu + harness from a s13. $600 is good (if you dont have the means to do it/attempt it yourself)

Someone correct my if Im wrong though.

Also, do a search for this info...will probably be more in depth.

[aznpoopy]

$600 is extremely cheap. it's so cheap it would make me a little wary of the shop.

[infinitexsound]

the blocks are really similar ..... the only big diffrence i saw was when a ka24de from a car was sitting next to a truck block..... BIG diffrence

[NemeGuero]

told you so...

are the exhaust mani's really different too? That, I didn't know.

[Irukandji]

From what I understand, the heads were slightly different. s13 cams have been known to increase hp when put in an s14 ka... and the s13 ka has a slightly higher redline. (6900 vs. 6500)

[91ka]

Originally Posted by n1sm0r

From what I understand, the heads were slightly different. s13 cams have been known to increase hp when put in an s14 ka... and the s13 ka has a slightly higher redline. (6900 vs. 6500)

is this true? if it is, then shouldnt s14's motor have more torque? most owners of the ka motors ive seen doesnt redline much, since there isnt much power up there anyways.. but since the duration for the cams are higher would that mean more fuel economy?

thankz

[NemeGuero]

Cam duration is like... 242/245 on s13 and 232/232 s14.

[Jason@performance]

Forgive me if Im wrong...

Wasnt a heat problem fixed in the 98 cylinder heads?

97-98 has some emissions add ons as well... slightly different intake manifold...

[phrozen]

manifolds are different, compressoin is different, ignition is different, cams are different, timing is different, u should be fine tho. thats good price for labor. replacement engine labor starts at about 750, considering that there gonna have to take off ur old manifolds an all that crap its not a bad price

[silversr]

Damn I feel like im getting ripped off badly, im putting a new motor in my uncles 240 for only 150 bucks,it sucks when ur family u can't charge them a whole lot.

[projectRDM]

Cams are 240/248 on S13s, 232/232 on S14s.

[91ka]

so does that mean s14s cams are more consistant?

[gotta240]

600? sounds HIGH to me for a direct swap..

3 to 400 is about right for a direct swap imo. Where in socal are you located??? If socal, i could prolly hook ya up.

[sciamop]

I just finished putting a 98 KA into my 91 S13 (lucky you). Here's what you need to swap over:

-- Distributor
-- Intake manifold (the whole thing: including injectors, etc)
-- Wiring harness (most of it is attached to the intake manifold)
-- Alternator (I tried to run the S14 -- it wouldn't charge my battery!)
-- Exhaust manifold
-- AC Compressor + bracket (2 of the 4 bolt holes on the comp line up with the S14 bracket. Not good.)

You'll also need to replace the intake and exhaust manifold gaskets. They'll fall apart when you remove these two items.

Swapping all this junk over is a fair bit of work. It'll probably nuke your $600 estimate.

Good luck!

[BigVinnie]

91-94 OBD1 systems use (SCV) swirl control valves, also known as secondary butterflys.
91-94 use much more aggressive cam lift and duration than the 95-98.
91-94 OBD1 systems have the catylitic converter after the header collector.
91-94 KA's have one connector to the TPS, OBD2 engines use 2. OBD 2 95-98 systems butt the cat right up to the header essentially there is no collector.
(EDITED)Pentroof dome shape slightly changed in the 97-98 models.
There will be problems directly swapping the 98 to the 91 with a 91 ecu. The cam lobe and duration of the 98 on 91 ecu will have the car running rich,TPS won't function,distributor isn't the same, and will probably decrease HP. If swapping the 98 engine it would be best to retune the ecu, and use the 91TPS, distributor, mani, or splice the harness to use the 98 ecu as well. This way you can use a properlly tuned 98engine.
There are a few ways to use the newer engines and make different HP.
( I may have forgotten something, let me know)
This swap relatively costs a little over a grand.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by n1sm0r

From what I understand, the heads were slightly different. s13 cams have been known to increase hp when put in an s14 ka... and the s13 ka has a slightly higher redline. (6900 vs. 6500)

WOW watch the misguided info there man.... They both redline the same s13 production USDM's used the RPM gauge that was used for USDM sr's, this was corrected with the s14 with the proper redline markings. Bore and stroke go unchanged, and the heads barrely changed from OBD1 to OBD2. It was just the production of the gauges not the engines. Redline is really about 6200, I always shift @6000rpm since the power band drops at 5600RPM anyways.....
Sorry for double posting thought I should make the correction.

[91ka]

and are you saying if i were to swap a 98 motor using a 91 ecu, i should use the 91 cams to properly run the motor? i dont really care how the motor runs as long as it doesnt get damaged, and i also care about the mpg too so... would it be ok without having to retune the ecu?

[sciamop]

and are you saying if i were to swap a 98 motor using a 91 ecu, i should use the 91 cams to properly run the motor?

91ka: My 91 S13 runs like a champ with the 98 engine. Just swap over the items that I listed above.

BigVinnie: OBDII is a lot more complex than that. It would be a frigging nightmare to build a hybrid OBDII S13. Just for a "properlly tuned 98engine". If 1mpg and 3hp are important to you, maybe you should get into Hondas...

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by sciamop

and are you saying if i were to swap a 98 motor using a 91 ecu, i should use the 91 cams to properly run the motor?

The 91 ecu and it's map is built around a 91engine, Fuel dumping is already a bit rich on OBD1 systems. Using the 232/232 set up isn't helping the engine pass emissions, and infact will probably have the engine run rich, with a slightly higher HC content. This problem was noted by the NICO smog tech. CAM timing to ecu ignition timing is just as important, the smaller duration 232 does effect fuel richness and atomization.
240 duration was needed since OBD1 systems use SCV's, they take up about 1/5 of the diameter space of the runner when fully open. Using the 232 will cause lack of swirl and effeciency in power.
If you chose to use the 232/232 set up I would recomend not using the SCV's, and possibly applying a more aggressive tune such as the ones used on OBD2 ECU's.

Originally Posted by sciamop

BigVinnie: OBDII is a lot more complex than that. It would be a frigging nightmare to build a hybrid OBDII S13. Just for a "properlly tuned 98engine". If 1mpg and 3hp are important to you, maybe you should get into Hondas...

OBD2 is difficult to work with I personally don't like working with it. I agree with you completely. OBD2 ECU swaps have been done before. Also takes alot more hours than just swapping OBD1 parts on an OBD2 block. I was just throwing it out as info since it was part of the topic.

Originally Posted by sciamop

If 1mpg and 3hp are important to you, maybe you should get into Hondas...

Actually running an NA engine lean is the most important part to NA tuning and providing effeciency, if your engine is rich your engine is choking providing less power, waste of fuel and power. Cmon man sayin I should be a Honda tuner is just insulting. I've been working on KA's since probably before you could wipe your ass. Learned alot of tricks dropping off the 510 at Rebello racing. Actually it is more like a 6HP drop off in high RPM and a significant loss in low end torque about 8ft/lbs. That makes it slower than a stock OBD1 KA (and there already slow), so yeah every donkey does count.
There was no need to get insulting, just keep it to facts.....

[sciamop]

There was no need to get insulting, just keep it to facts.....

Word. Zilvia.net makes me a little crazy. No harm, no foul?

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Ring land height and pentroof dome height slightly changed in the 97-98 models.

More info on this?

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by S14DB

More info on this?

Altima KA24de pistons were used on the 97-98 I believe for a few reasons.
Easier on Nissans production line of parts.
Better for smog emissions.
I don't have the exact changes in the ring land hiegth and pentroof shape, I would have to look for the info. If I could remember the change was only raised within .005.

FUBARED INFO^^^^^ Read post below........

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

Altima KA24de pistons were used on the 97-98 I believe for a few reasons.
Easier on Nissans production line of parts.
Better for smog emissions.
I don't have the exact changes in the ring land height and pentroof shape, I would have to look for the info. If I could remember the change was only raised within .005.

If you could find out and PM me or post here that would be great. I wounder if this is why I make more power than average.

[BigVinnie]

Originally Posted by S14DB

If you could find out and PM me or post here that would be great. I wounder if this is why I make more power than average.

Correction on my info...
Just went through my list of information.
It was only the Pentroof design and shape that changed on 95-98 heads. Pentroof design and shape increased flame front for maximum power and effeciency without changing the characteristics of it's CR, compared to 91-94 model years which obviously lacked effeciency.
97-98 use a much more aggressive ignition timing and fuel dumping than the 95-96 model years.
All (240sx) KA24de pistons are the same from 91-98.

(Boosted) 240sx KA24de builders transplant 1998 and above production Altima/Frontier/Xterra KA24de pistons for a lowered compression of 9.2:1, with lowered rings and almost the same dish volume, and show a difference of .25mm difference in both ring's and a .3mm difference in the oil ring.
Altima/Frontier/exterra pistons that are used are during the 1998 and above production, not pre 98 240sx KA24de.
I recieved the proper info for the KA pistons from Gabe Z at HybridKa. He ha s the list of all Nissan KA/Z/L production date pistons.