Car rolls forward while in 1st gear with clutch pedal down!

[AzNCmB]

hey guys, can you all help me out? My daily is having tranny problems.

History: I bought it from a friend of mine, the car is all stock, originally auto, 2 years ago, he did a 5 spd swap,new rps street clutch installed, stock flywheel resurfaced, and an spl Clutch fork pivot. He was very busy with school so only drove the car a few times a month, since he had another car to put miles on.

a year and 1/2 later, he sold the car to me, i kept it as a daily while i built my maroon ka-t s14. I drove it for 4 mothns, then slave cyl died on me, i changed it, and now months later, its having issues with going into gear, this is where i need help.

issues: with motor running, it would not go into gear, unless i shove it into gear, reverse would not go into gear at all unless i turn car off, put it in reverse and turn car on.

while car is in either 1st or reverse, with the clutch pedal fully pressed to the floor, car would want to roll forward in 1st, and backwards in reverse, rpms would stumble from 900rpm to around 600rpm, but would not die.

a friend of mine recently took the tranny off while i was away, and he changed out the t/o bearing, he re assembled it and it does the same thing.

when driving, as long as im in gear, it would drive fine, but when i go to up shift or down shift, it would be really tuff, i'll have to force it...

parts inspection:
i inspected the clutch master, and the rod that attaches to the clutch pedal, there are NO leaks anywhere, also, with a friend pushing in the clutch pedal, it does pump fluid to the slave, because the slave goes in and out, and also, the slave is bone dry, no leaks anywhere.

tranny fluid is full, and i bled the slave many of times.

my online research, i found this thread http://www.ka-t.org/forums/viewtopic...tch+engagement

guy said that his springs in his clutch disc broke, but he was on stock clutch setup which probably had over 100k miles, i doubt that my rps clutch broke with just stock n/a ka power...also, i probably have less than 50k miles on mys setup...


anyone can help? please do, all would be appricieated



ps. I am using an autozone slave cyl. i wonder if it is broken somehow, because i know rps clutches are prone to breaking slave cyls. but my question is, what other way would slave break and not show signs of leakage? same question goes for the master cyl? can anyone help??

thanks!

[Dousan_PG]

i ran a RPS for SO LONG on my sr w/ no problems

i would bet its your TOB
get a new trans too
well used 'new to you'

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by Dousan_PG

i ran a RPS for SO LONG on my sr w/ no problems

i would bet its your TOB
get a new trans too
well used 'new to you'

thanks for the reply Aaron, but a friend of mine recently installed a new t/o bearing for me, and would a broken tranny shift into gears wen car is off/not running?

i do have an extra tranny, but I'm trying to eliminate all problems that i can before taking off the tranny again...


also, forgot to add, my clutch pedal feel is stiff, just as stiff as day one when i 1st bought/drove the car

didnt know if that mattered or not

[KwKouki]

TOB, we JUST had the same problem with my friends car.

[AzNCmB]

seriously, the throw out bearing was replaced a few weeks ago while i didnt drive the car...

[Dousan_PG]

he probably installed it wrong
my car blew up a TOB on the g20
same problems as u described.

[AzNCmB]

okk, thanks...

guess i'll take the tranny off and inspect everything...

thanks for the help guys
having 2 s14's down sucks!

[fliprayzin240sx]

Tried adjusting your clutch pedal too?

[g6civcx]

Quickest way is to bleed and adjust clutch pedal. Search my posts.

[ho1ywars]

adjust the rod coming from the clutch master cylinder. your clutch is not disengaging all the way. screw the fork (on the cluch master clynder rod) counter clockwise to make the rod penetrate the clutch master cylinder further thus disengaging the clutch all the way.

[S14DB]

Rebuild the S/C and M/C. Should cost you $20-30 in parts for both with new plungers.
Bleed the system. Assume no damper cause it's a conversion.
Adjust the rod on the MC.

[AzNCmB]

stock damper loop is eliminated, yes, i adjusted the pedal several times...
still nothing...

i have a new master cyl and a new slave, but before i start changing parts,
can anyone answer the question, what other way can the master and/or slave break with out showing signs of leakage?


also, more info. while pressing the clutch pedal in and out, the slave cyl does react(extends and retracts) to the movement of the clutch pedal....


thanks for the replies

[zaneithan]

i had this problem with my n/a ka and it turned out to be the clutch master...and it took about 3-4 master's before getting one that actually worked properly...and they didnt show any external signs of problems (no leaking and such) so maybe start there with a better (at least tokico) clutch master and see if that fixes the problem

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by zaneithan

i had this problem with my n/a ka and it turned out to be the clutch master...and it took about 3-4 master's before getting one that actually worked properly...and they didnt show any external signs of problems (no leaking and such) so maybe start there with a better (at least tokico) clutch master and see if that fixes the problem

sounds interesting,
i sent you pm...

i'd like to talk about it more in detail...
thanks

[Josh]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Rebuild the S/C and M/C. Should cost you $20-30 in parts for both with new plungers.
Bleed the system. Assume no damper cause it's a conversion.
Adjust the rod on the MC.

was going to say the same, if it isnt the tob like aaron suggesting my guess would be a bad master... sounds like the diaphragm is leaking or something.

[DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY]

dump the autozone slave. i went through 3 in like 6 months. they are prone to leak. get oem. hit up westcojustin. its not to expensive and totally worth it. and i dont think it would not show leakage if it was broken but who knows. and like everyone else said "bleed it". its worth a shot.

Originally Posted by AzNCmB

guy said that his springs in his clutch disc broke, but he was on stock clutch setup which probably had over 100k miles, i doubt that my rps clutch broke with just stock n/a ka power...also, i probably have less than 50k miles on mys setup...[/b]

i had an exedy for maybe 15k miles. it broke. my friend replaced his 3 or 4 times in a year. but that turned out to be his flywheel being warped.

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by Josh@A2B

bad master... sounds like the diaphragm is leaking or something.

i drove the car yesterday for 2hrs, while forcing it into gear at stoplights and what not, got back to my house, and didnt notice any loss of fluid...

and like i said, the master cyl. rod that attaches to the clutch pedal is bone dry, even inside of the engine bay, around the master cyl's resivour is dry...

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY

dump the autozone slave. i went through 3 in like 6 months. they are prone to leak. get oem. hit up westcojustin. its not to expensive and totally worth it. and i dont think it would not show leakage if it was broken but who knows. and like everyone else said "bleed it". its worth a shot.



i had an exedy for maybe 15k miles. it broke. my friend replaced his 3 or 4 times in a year. but that turned out to be his flywheel being warped.

the autozone slave was bought in a hurry because i needed to go to work, it worked...and thats all i needed it to do...

this is my daily, your friend that broke his exedy, was it ever tracked at all or baby driven like mine?

[Josh]

Originally Posted by AzNCmB

i drove the car yesterday for 2hrs, while forcing it into gear at stoplights and what not, got back to my house, and didnt notice any loss of fluid...

and like i said, the master cyl. rod that attaches to the clutch pedal is bone dry, even inside of the engine bay, around the master cyl's resivour is dry...

you wont lose fluid at all if is leaking... just picture an image of blow by in a cylinder due to jacked up rings on a piston... same concept... fluid level stays the same but the pressure is not as great because fluid is seaping past the diaphragm in the master.

[Vision Garage]

only good thing about the autozone slave and master is that you can go pick it up quick. They do tend to give up on you pretty quick tho. You may have to try 2 or 3 times before you get a good product. Only suggestion is to bleed the clutch more. Make sure that when the slave is going up and down, it is actually pushing against hte pivot fork. Ive seen many times when people see it moving and leave it at that. If you have to, get under the car and push against the slave so that the prong has sometime to push against which will create the pressure you need.

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by Josh@A2B

you wont lose fluid at all if is leaking... just picture an image of blow by in a cylinder due to jacked up rings on a piston... same concept... fluid level stays the same but the pressure is not as great because fluid is seaping past the diaphragm in the master.

haha, speaking of shit piston rings, i've gone threw that, i blew my stock ka while turbo for 2 yrs...and with blow by...oil does come out(came out the breather on the valve cover) and oil levels do go down...i had to add a quart a week before the motor actually gave out...

i see what your saying, but would the slave still work if the clutch master went to shit? my slave still goes in and out while pressing clutch pedal in and out...

maybe the master is semi blown, and still pushes the slave, but not enough to allow me to shift into gear smoothly? hmmm...?

Originally Posted by Vision Garage

only good thing about the autozone slave and master is that you can go pick it up quick. They do tend to give up on you pretty quick tho. You may have to try 2 or 3 times before you get a good product. Only suggestion is to bleed the clutch more. Make sure that when the slave is going up and down, it is actually pushing against hte pivot fork. Ive seen many times when people see it moving and leave it at that. If you have to, get under the car and push against the slave so that the prong has sometime to push against which will create the pressure you need.

yea, i did that, the slave does push the fork, i'd say the movement is a good 1 1/2 inch in and out...

i'll guess i'll start changing out the slave and master since those are cheap ass parts anyway...

thanks for everyone's time

[projectRDM]

Does the clutch feel like it's slipping once in gear? Could be the clutch fork is jammed, causing the T/O bearing to be partially engaged. That's common when people replace it and don't remember the spring's configuration. Putting it on backwards will keep the bearing retainer from sliding all the way back on the shaft.

[AzNCmB]

Originally Posted by projectRDM

Does the clutch feel like it's slipping once in gear? Could be the clutch fork is jammed, causing the T/O bearing to be partially engaged. That's common when people replace it and don't remember the spring's configuration. Putting it on backwards will keep the bearing retainer from sliding all the way back on the shaft.

nope, once in gear, and i give it throttle, it drives fine, i can even do a burn out in 1st with no problems...opn diff, one wheel spin..

[DRIFTING_SIL_EIGHTY]

Originally Posted by AzNCmB

your friend that broke his exedy, was it ever tracked at all or baby driven like mine?

never tracked. just daily driven and once in a great moon he would mess around in a empty lot.

[tt99ol]

+1 for checking the master cyl its either that or the slave but it sounds like its definitely hydraulic

[SR20d2fourT]

Had this problem before. Bleed the slave cylinder and check it out.

[DJ_Sunrise]

Replace the autozone slave with OEM nissan slave. Many guys that I know have this problem because they either don't know how to bleed a hydraulic line, or buy POS aftermarket parts.

Best way to bleed the slave cyl in your situation is to pop open the nipple, and have someone keeping the fluid topped off in the engine bay. After a minute, close it up. Any air would have come out with the fluid. Done.

I'll assume your friend installed the TOB properly with tons of grease inside the sleave. If the master cyl blows out, or is having any problems, your carpet inside the car would be soaked.

So.

Replace slave cylinder with OEM Nissan one. For $40 dollars, you won't have to touch it for years. 1 out of 3 aftermarket slave cylinders last more than 6 months.

-Bart

[AzNCmB]

just got done with the car,

replaced the master and slave with new parts...
bled the fluid thoroughly and still same problem,

looks like i might have to pull the tranny

[fueled by hate]

You may have improperly bled the system. You can try using a vacum pump along with someone pumping the clutch. Sometimes it can be a bitch to get all the air out of the lines and get full pressure. Autozone should sell the brake bleeder kit. You should also consider buying all of your important mechanical parts form the dealership like other people said.

[S14DB]

Have you had someone push the clutch pedal while you watch the fork move?