pilot stb any good?? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

TonysS13 · 02-01-2002, 05:13 PM

i can get a pair of frony n back for 85 bucks in rollhard.com
are they any good??

S13Grl · 02-01-2002, 05:18 PM

What do you think? $85.00 for front and rear STBs?

Yoshi · 02-01-2002, 05:22 PM

Okay, I hope that wasn't sarcasm.

c'mon now, you're a moderator, you should be setting the example... maybe it's just friday and I'm tired of being at work all day at the end of the week and I've misconstrued your statement.  If that's the case I apologize wholeheartedly.

But if not, c'mon now... you were not like this before becoming a moderator... what's with the attitude change... the guy is asking an honest question.

And to answer it:
I don't see anything wrong with a pilot bar, they're cheaper and heavier, but they do the job... unless you're doing serious things to your chassis' stress level (ie high speed touge, or track drift), I think it will do just fine.

jyt747 · 02-01-2002, 05:28 PM

I believe that pilot is almost exactly the same as obx. You can find them cheaper on ebay.

S13Grl · 02-01-2002, 05:31 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Yoshi on 6:22 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
Okay, I hope that wasn't sarcasm.

c'mon now, you're a moderator, you should be setting the example... maybe it's just friday and I'm tired of being at work all day at the end of the week and I've misconstrued your statement. If that's the case I apologize wholeheartedly.

But if not, c'mon now... you were not like this before becoming a moderator... what's with the attitude change... the guy is asking an honest question.

And to answer it:
I don't see anything wrong with a pilot bar, they're cheaper and heavier, but they do the job... unless you're doing serious things to your chassis' stress level (ie high speed touge, or track drift), I think it will do just fine.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I asked what he thinks, and I wanted to make sure it was for both front and rear. Thanks for your input.

(Edited by S13Grl at 6:31 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

Yoshi · 02-01-2002, 05:35 PM

Ah, well I guess I"m just tired and/or smoking crack <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

I apologize wholeheartedly as promised <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

S13Grl · 02-01-2002, 06:02 PM

So I just checked Rollhard.com. I guess it's not that bad of an idea to go for the deal... I bought my STB from Stillen and I have to say I loved it. It was $215.00. I hold that belief that you get what you paid for. Personally, I wouldn't pay so little for STBs, but that's just me. I guess it's "whatever floats your boat" and how much money you have to spend that influence your decisions. That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless.

Nismos14 · 02-01-2002, 09:43 PM

i've got the pilot stb and its just as good as the one my bro paid $175 for on his maxima i paid 50 for mine.... so yea

bing · 02-01-2002, 09:50 PM

i just paid $225 for a pair of OBX's... are they good???

*DSC* · 02-01-2002, 09:52 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>What do you base that on?  Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar.  

bing · 02-01-2002, 09:55 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 9:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

true that...

i hear of people just buying a pipe from the hardware store and doing it that way....

in the s13 coupe will the bar make it harder to access the sub... perhaps making it a difficult theft target...

misnomer · 02-01-2002, 10:36 PM

A strut tower bar is so simple it's ludicrous, the only things you get out of a spendier one is lighter weight and a bit stiffer metal. As I see it, nothing significant enough to go broke over. The "You get what you pay for" spiel works on a lot of things, but not when it comes to cinder blocks, toilet paper, and strut tower bars.

thewholefnshow · 02-01-2002, 11:31 PM

Have you ever gone in a public washroom with the zero ply sandpaper they give you... you get what you pay for in toilet paper!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from misnomer on 10:36 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
A strut tower bar is so simple it's ludicrous, the only things you get out of a spendier one is lighter weight and a bit stiffer metal. As I see it, nothing significant enough to go broke over. The "You get what you pay for" spiel works on a lot of things, but not when it comes to cinder blocks, toilet paper, and strut tower bars.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

tristarx · 02-02-2002, 04:26 AM

For the price on the pilot bar, really, it can't be beat.  The quality and fitment is nice, and if you compare both to the GAB that looks similar if not identical, you won't see the difference other than the high price from GAB and alittle better fittings used.

For suspension enhancement, reduced interior noise (or complete elimination), supress sunroof rattle and reduced body roll is well worth the $80.

If it's no good, we won't be carrying them because they are simply the best bang for the buck anyone can do to their 240sx and on the same line it fits most of the young kids's budget driving the 240sx's.

Tx.

tristarx · 02-02-2002, 04:30 AM

S13Grl · 02-02-2002, 08:04 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it.

Nismos14 · 02-02-2002, 08:08 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 am on Feb. 2, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

hahahahaha i love the sig irena <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

*DSC* · 02-02-2002, 10:23 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 8<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 am on Feb. 2, 2002
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002
What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>boyfriend number 1? you saying theres more than one? Hehe
Anyway, thanks for the info. I guess I'll spend gobs on my rear bar then <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> not that I really had a choice since nobody makes cheap rear STB's for the s14.
I'll probably order the JIC rear bar from autoimaging tonight...

S13Grl · 02-02-2002, 10:57 AM

Shh! I'm not supposed to say this online!

J/K!!!

HippoSleek · 02-02-2002, 11:10 AM

To those that can tell a difference b/n two pieces of aluminum using an identical design - I salute you. :rolleyes:

... and I think the sig reminds me of those Ricki Lake episodes where a person comes onto the show to prove how sexy/strong/smart they are to someone who used to tease them... get over it

S13Grl · 02-02-2002, 11:17 AM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HippoSleek on 12:10 pm on Feb. 2, 2002
To those that can tell a difference b/n two pieces of aluminum using an identical design - I salute you. :rolleyes:

... and I think the sig reminds me of those Ricki Lake episodes where a person comes onto the show to prove how sexy/strong/smart they are to someone who used to tease them... get over it</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Thanks for your opinion!

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02-01-2002, 05:13 PM	#1
TonysS13 Leaky Injector Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 136 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i can get a pair of frony n back for 85 bucks in rollhard.com are they any good??

02-01-2002, 05:18 PM	#2
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What do you think? $85.00 for front and rear STBs?

02-01-2002, 05:22 PM	#3
Yoshi Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Washington Age: 48 Posts: 3,003 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: Yoshi Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Okay, I hope that wasn't sarcasm. c'mon now, you're a moderator, you should be setting the example... maybe it's just friday and I'm tired of being at work all day at the end of the week and I've misconstrued your statement.  If that's the case I apologize wholeheartedly. But if not, c'mon now... you were not like this before becoming a moderator... what's with the attitude change... the guy is asking an honest question. And to answer it: I don't see anything wrong with a pilot bar, they're cheaper and heavier, but they do the job... unless you're doing serious things to your chassis' stress level (ie high speed touge, or track drift), I think it will do just fine.

02-01-2002, 05:28 PM	#4
jyt747 Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 305 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I believe that pilot is almost exactly the same as obx. You can find them cheaper on ebay.

02-01-2002, 05:31 PM	#5
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Yoshi on 6:22 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 Okay, I hope that wasn't sarcasm. c'mon now, you're a moderator, you should be setting the example... maybe it's just friday and I'm tired of being at work all day at the end of the week and I've misconstrued your statement. If that's the case I apologize wholeheartedly. But if not, c'mon now... you were not like this before becoming a moderator... what's with the attitude change... the guy is asking an honest question. And to answer it: I don't see anything wrong with a pilot bar, they're cheaper and heavier, but they do the job... unless you're doing serious things to your chassis' stress level (ie high speed touge, or track drift), I think it will do just fine. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I asked what he thinks, and I wanted to make sure it was for both front and rear. Thanks for your input. (Edited by S13Grl at 6:31 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

02-01-2002, 05:35 PM	#6
Yoshi Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Washington Age: 48 Posts: 3,003 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: Yoshi Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Ah, well I guess I"m just tired and/or smoking crack <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'> I apologize wholeheartedly as promised <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

02-01-2002, 06:02 PM	#7
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So I just checked Rollhard.com. I guess it's not that bad of an idea to go for the deal... I bought my STB from Stillen and I have to say I loved it. It was $215.00. I hold that belief that you get what you paid for. Personally, I wouldn't pay so little for STBs, but that's just me. I guess it's "whatever floats your boat" and how much money you have to spend that influence your decisions. That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless.

02-01-2002, 09:43 PM	#8
Nismos14 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: New Jersey Age: 43 Posts: 1,213 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i've got the pilot stb and its just as good as the one my bro paid $175 for on his maxima i paid 50 for mine.... so yea

02-01-2002, 09:50 PM	#9
bing Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ontario canada Posts: 2,699 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	i just paid $225 for a pair of OBX's... are they good???

02-01-2002, 09:52 PM	#10
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>What do you base that on?  Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar.

02-01-2002, 09:55 PM	#11
bing Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ontario canada Posts: 2,699 Trader Rating: (21) Feedback Score: 21 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 9:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 6<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>2 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 That said, Pilot will do the job, just not as good as the more expensive brands can, but good nonetheless. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> true that... i hear of people just buying a pipe from the hardware store and doing it that way.... in the s13 coupe will the bar make it harder to access the sub... perhaps making it a difficult theft target...

02-01-2002, 10:36 PM	#12
misnomer Nissanaholic! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nevada Posts: 2,293 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	A strut tower bar is so simple it's ludicrous, the only things you get out of a spendier one is lighter weight and a bit stiffer metal. As I see it, nothing significant enough to go broke over. The "You get what you pay for" spiel works on a lot of things, but not when it comes to cinder blocks, toilet paper, and strut tower bars.

02-01-2002, 11:31 PM	#13
thewholefnshow Zilvia Addict Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 672 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Have you ever gone in a public washroom with the zero ply sandpaper they give you... you get what you pay for in toilet paper! </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from misnomer on 10:36 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 A strut tower bar is so simple it's ludicrous, the only things you get out of a spendier one is lighter weight and a bit stiffer metal. As I see it, nothing significant enough to go broke over. The "You get what you pay for" spiel works on a lot of things, but not when it comes to cinder blocks, toilet paper, and strut tower bars.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

02-02-2002, 04:26 AM	#14
tristarx Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 140 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	For the price on the pilot bar, really, it can't be beat.  The quality and fitment is nice, and if you compare both to the GAB that looks similar if not identical, you won't see the difference other than the high price from GAB and alittle better fittings used. For suspension enhancement, reduced interior noise (or complete elimination), supress sunroof rattle and reduced body roll is well worth the $80. If it's no good, we won't be carrying them because they are simply the best bang for the buck anyone can do to their 240sx and on the same line it fits most of the young kids's budget driving the 240sx's. Tx.

02-02-2002, 04:30 AM	#15
tristarx Leaky Injector Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 140 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews

02-02-2002, 08:04 AM	#16
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it.

02-02-2002, 08:08 AM	#17
Nismos14 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: New Jersey Age: 43 Posts: 1,213 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 10<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 am on Feb. 2, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> hahahahaha i love the sig irena <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>

02-02-2002, 10:23 AM	#18
DSC New Title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VA Posts: 3,454 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from S13Grl on 8<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':0'>4 am on Feb. 2, 2002 </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from DSC on 10:52 pm on Feb. 1, 2002 What do you base that on? Untill someone has tryed a cusco and an pilot on the same car or has some other proof, I'm going to continue to believe that its just a bar. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> My boyfriend had some "Number 1" bar that he paid $75.00 for on his S14. I bought the Stillen, and when I sold my car, I kept the STB and gave it to my boyfriend. He said he definitely noticed the quality and the stiffness in the new bar, so I'm taking his words for it. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>boyfriend number 1? you saying theres more than one? Hehe Anyway, thanks for the info. I guess I'll spend gobs on my rear bar then <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('> not that I really had a choice since nobody makes cheap rear STB's for the s14. I'll probably order the JIC rear bar from autoimaging tonight...

02-02-2002, 10:57 AM	#19
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Shh! I'm not supposed to say this online! J/K!!!

02-02-2002, 11:10 AM	#20
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	To those that can tell a difference b/n two pieces of aluminum using an identical design - I salute you. :rolleyes: ... and I think the sig reminds me of those Ricki Lake episodes where a person comes onto the show to prove how sexy/strong/smart they are to someone who used to tease them... get over it

02-02-2002, 11:17 AM	#21
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from HippoSleek on 12:10 pm on Feb. 2, 2002 To those that can tell a difference b/n two pieces of aluminum using an identical design - I salute you. :rolleyes: ... and I think the sig reminds me of those Ricki Lake episodes where a person comes onto the show to prove how sexy/strong/smart they are to someone who used to tease them... get over it</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Thanks for your opinion!