Hello all! - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

FastbackBoi · 03-07-2002, 03:55 PM

Hello everyone, ive been wading through some various forums for a while and the forum here at Zilvia.net seems to be the best one ive found <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>  

I have a nice little white, manual, 1991 240sx fastback (as the name implies) and i love it. I bought it used with only 73k on it, and its in great condition still (interior looks very nice, only a few hardly noticeable dents on the body, no known engine probs). ive had it for a few months now and i must say it beats the hell out of driving my moms 1990 accord. I can definately see where you all get your pride in your cars <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

now for my problem... you see, before i started lookin for a car for myself, i knew damn near absolutlely nothing about cars (im 17 years old btw...). and now even im ashamed to say my knowledge isnt much, but i have learned quite a bit compared to waht i used to know.

What i do know, however, is what can help improve performance. Recently a freind of mine gave me a K&N intake filter (one of the cone ones, not a drop in one) and i was going to install it myself real fast, but i noticed a hose connecting into the stock air box that i'd never seen before.  due to my lack of knowledge of car engines, i had no idea what this could be.

i decided i should wait and ask my father so i wouldnt accidentally mess up my beautiful car by disconnecting somethign that might be important.  So later that day i bring my dad down to see if he knew what it was. He wasnt too sure either, and when he asked me why i wanted to know, i told him about the K&N filter i got.

He then goes on to tell me that i absolutely will not place it in my car. His reasoning was that the K&N filter would be worse for my car than the stock filter. I told him all about the K&N filter and how its better (i read up on it on the K&N website before i went to put it in). I told him that it filters better than the current paper filter, and it gets better airflow and whatnot, and he told me that the stock filter is set up so that it gets air from outside the car so its not getting dirty, oily, hot engine air. he then goes on to tell me that the stock filter is set up so that air is forced into the intake, so it would be getting better airflow than the K&N anyways, and then he tells me that if i put on the K&N filter my engine would get damaged because it would be "letting more dirt and particles through to the engine"

Thus he ended his argument and absolutely refuses to let me put in the filter.

Now, remember, my car is completely stock, and him talking about the air being forced, i beleive he was basically saying i have a ram-air system in my car somehow lol.

what i want to know, is what more can i tell him that would show him that the K&N filter actually would be better?

i appreciate any help. thanks in advance <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

DuffMan · 03-07-2002, 04:09 PM

Well your dad is not correct about any of that. The only concern I have heard with K&N fliters is that oil that is used to clean them can seep into your engine, but that doesn't seem to be happening all that much.

However a cone filter won't bolt directly up to the stock intake anywhere. You can either get an adapter, which I've seen on ebay and such, but the filter has to be the right size. I think most of the adapters are for the 3 inch filter.

Your other options are to get an entire intake, which can be found from $100 up depending on the brand, or a flat drop in fliter that is a direct replacement for the stock one.

twofortysx · 03-07-2002, 04:29 PM

Your dad is incorrect.  A K&N filter will actually filter better, letting less dirt and such through, while letting significantly more air through.

I think the hose you are talking about is the Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor.  You can either buy the MAF adapter to connect the filter cone to, or you can purchase a new entire intake system.  The MAF will be cheaper, but the Intake may be the better HP choice in the long run as it will deal better with engine heat and such.

- Matt

yenpit · 03-07-2002, 04:32 PM

welcome to the forum!
ur Dad is right bout one thing....by installing a cone filter up in the engine compartment, u will be drawing in the hotter engine compartment air, as opposed to the cooler air drawn in by the stock air box cuz it has a duct directing air from behind the bumper somewhere (sorry, don't know layout of ur S13 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ). however, by opening up the air intake with the installation of a cone filter, u will typically see a small power increase (maybe ur Dad isn't ready for that yet??) over the stock box. u do not have a ram air system.  
regarding filtration......the K&N is far superior than the stock paper filter.
duffman's right bout the 3in filter adaptor needed to attach a cone filter to MAS, and ur filter must have a 3in opening to fit properly.
the only way to avoid hot engine compartment air is by the use of a cold-air intake ie Injen or AEM products.
hope this helps! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

*transient* · 03-07-2002, 04:33 PM

It really is worth getting the intake. It may not provide much more power on it's own, but combined with exhaust and headers (i'm assuming you want to stay normally aspirated) it will help increase the flow quite a bit. If you get an intake, it will be 3 inch piping all the way to the intake manifold vs. the nasty stock plastic tubing.

Yoshi · 03-07-2002, 04:43 PM

Just a point of interest off of transient's post....
If his dad is having qualms about installing something as small as a K&N filter (and seriously, that's pretty much the smallest performance mod you can do), I really don't think his dad will be letting him do exhaust, header, etc etc...

Now, what dad's motivations are is what our new member should be trying to figure out.  Is he concerned about you damaging your new car?  Or is he more concerned about the well-being of his son, who's been only driving (legally) for a year (at most).  Probably the latter.  For god's sake Fastback Boi, I hope you didn't watch the the fast and the riceronius, errr furious, with your dad!  That movie made all us import enthusiasts look bad. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

-end rant

FastbackBoi · 03-08-2002, 04:41 PM

Thank you all for replying. you helped me confirm what i already beleived (im not insulting here, i really wasnt 100% sure on what i thought was right).

Yenpit: yeah that was the only thing i couldt argue with him to much was with the hot air part. But I tried to tell him that even though it will be getting warmer air, it will be getting more air than before.

but basically the whole argument consisted of him making up his claims and denying mine were even possible.  

oh and on the ram air deal, i know it isnt ram air, i was pointing out the sillyness of my father basically describing my stock setup as being a ram air system.

And about the adapter i need to get... i kinda figured i would need somethign like that when i saw that one hose i was tlaking about that i didnt know what it was (which i later found out from a repair manual that it is somethign that measures the air temperature).  So yeah, that hose would have nowhere to connect to if i were to remove the current air filter box and just tac on the K&N cone filter.

so uh... how much would one of those adapters costanyways?

THank you all again for your replies, i appreciate the help <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

ps: fast and the furious was lame <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>  sure is odd how long some of those quarter-mile races lasted :\

Danio · 03-08-2002, 05:22 PM

I drove an 89 240SX before (but not anymore) and had put the K&N cone filter on. The cone I ordered came with everything I needed. I didn't have to get an adaptor separately. Maybe your friend didn't give you everything that was in the box. *shrugs*

I believe the hot air worsened the performance. The car always ran better in mornings and nights and noticably more sluggishly in hot afternoons.

In my opinion it's probably not something worth arguing over with your dad anyway if he refuses to let you put it on. Any performance gains that you might get probably wouldn't even be noticable. Maybe you should do the suspensions first. See if he'll tell you the stock suspension is better than any aftermarket ones.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='

'>

Arcane · 03-08-2002, 06:04 PM

if i'm not mistaken...don't an air filter improve your gas milage too...i would bring up that point...in fact...my dad told me to get one as soon as i had enough money...the days of my first car...aaahh...memories...

03-07-2002, 03:55 PM	#1
FastbackBoi Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 13 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hello everyone, ive been wading through some various forums for a while and the forum here at Zilvia.net seems to be the best one ive found <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>   I have a nice little white, manual, 1991 240sx fastback (as the name implies) and i love it. I bought it used with only 73k on it, and its in great condition still (interior looks very nice, only a few hardly noticeable dents on the body, no known engine probs). ive had it for a few months now and i must say it beats the hell out of driving my moms 1990 accord. I can definately see where you all get your pride in your cars <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> now for my problem... you see, before i started lookin for a car for myself, i knew damn near absolutlely nothing about cars (im 17 years old btw...). and now even im ashamed to say my knowledge isnt much, but i have learned quite a bit compared to waht i used to know. What i do know, however, is what can help improve performance. Recently a freind of mine gave me a K&N intake filter (one of the cone ones, not a drop in one) and i was going to install it myself real fast, but i noticed a hose connecting into the stock air box that i'd never seen before.  due to my lack of knowledge of car engines, i had no idea what this could be. i decided i should wait and ask my father so i wouldnt accidentally mess up my beautiful car by disconnecting somethign that might be important.  So later that day i bring my dad down to see if he knew what it was. He wasnt too sure either, and when he asked me why i wanted to know, i told him about the K&N filter i got. He then goes on to tell me that i absolutely will not place it in my car. His reasoning was that the K&N filter would be worse for my car than the stock filter. I told him all about the K&N filter and how its better (i read up on it on the K&N website before i went to put it in). I told him that it filters better than the current paper filter, and it gets better airflow and whatnot, and he told me that the stock filter is set up so that it gets air from outside the car so its not getting dirty, oily, hot engine air. he then goes on to tell me that the stock filter is set up so that air is forced into the intake, so it would be getting better airflow than the K&N anyways, and then he tells me that if i put on the K&N filter my engine would get damaged because it would be "letting more dirt and particles through to the engine" Thus he ended his argument and absolutely refuses to let me put in the filter. Now, remember, my car is completely stock, and him talking about the air being forced, i beleive he was basically saying i have a ram-air system in my car somehow lol. what i want to know, is what more can i tell him that would show him that the K&N filter actually would be better? i appreciate any help. thanks in advance <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

03-07-2002, 04:29 PM	#3
twofortysx Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 491 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Your dad is incorrect.  A K&N filter will actually filter better, letting less dirt and such through, while letting significantly more air through. I think the hose you are talking about is the Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor.  You can either buy the MAF adapter to connect the filter cone to, or you can purchase a new entire intake system.  The MAF will be cheaper, but the Intake may be the better HP choice in the long run as it will deal better with engine heat and such. - Matt __________________ "Now I'm in 3rd and you think that's quick? Wait till I hit 5th." - 98 s14 -

03-07-2002, 04:32 PM	#4
yenpit Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Holland Michigan Posts: 798 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	welcome to the forum! ur Dad is right bout one thing....by installing a cone filter up in the engine compartment, u will be drawing in the hotter engine compartment air, as opposed to the cooler air drawn in by the stock air box cuz it has a duct directing air from behind the bumper somewhere (sorry, don't know layout of ur S13 <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> ). however, by opening up the air intake with the installation of a cone filter, u will typically see a small power increase (maybe ur Dad isn't ready for that yet??) over the stock box. u do not have a ram air system.   regarding filtration......the K&N is far superior than the stock paper filter. duffman's right bout the 3in filter adaptor needed to attach a cone filter to MAS, and ur filter must have a 3in opening to fit properly. the only way to avoid hot engine compartment air is by the use of a cold-air intake ie Injen or AEM products. hope this helps! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> __________________ '98 240SX 5spd[br]http://www.speedwisemotorsports.com

03-07-2002, 04:33 PM	#5
transient Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Los Angeles, California Age: 40 Posts: 2,947 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It really is worth getting the intake. It may not provide much more power on it's own, but combined with exhaust and headers (i'm assuming you want to stay normally aspirated) it will help increase the flow quite a bit. If you get an intake, it will be 3 inch piping all the way to the intake manifold vs. the nasty stock plastic tubing. __________________ Learn everything you can, while you still have the chance.

03-07-2002, 04:43 PM	#6
Yoshi Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Washington Age: 47 Posts: 3,003 Trader Rating: (1) Rides Gallery: Yoshi Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Just a point of interest off of transient's post.... If his dad is having qualms about installing something as small as a K&N filter (and seriously, that's pretty much the smallest performance mod you can do), I really don't think his dad will be letting him do exhaust, header, etc etc... Now, what dad's motivations are is what our new member should be trying to figure out.  Is he concerned about you damaging your new car?  Or is he more concerned about the well-being of his son, who's been only driving (legally) for a year (at most).  Probably the latter.  For god's sake Fastback Boi, I hope you didn't watch the the fast and the riceronius, errr furious, with your dad!  That movie made all us import enthusiasts look bad. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> -end rant __________________ www.360realms.com/S13-S15

03-07-2002, 04:09 PM	#2
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well your dad is not correct about any of that. The only concern I have heard with K&N fliters is that oil that is used to clean them can seep into your engine, but that doesn't seem to be happening all that much. However a cone filter won't bolt directly up to the stock intake anywhere. You can either get an adapter, which I've seen on ebay and such, but the filter has to be the right size. I think most of the adapters are for the 3 inch filter. Your other options are to get an entire intake, which can be found from $100 up depending on the brand, or a flat drop in fliter that is a direct replacement for the stock one.

03-08-2002, 04:41 PM	#7
FastbackBoi Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 13 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thank you all for replying. you helped me confirm what i already beleived (im not insulting here, i really wasnt 100% sure on what i thought was right). Yenpit: yeah that was the only thing i couldt argue with him to much was with the hot air part. But I tried to tell him that even though it will be getting warmer air, it will be getting more air than before. but basically the whole argument consisted of him making up his claims and denying mine were even possible.   oh and on the ram air deal, i know it isnt ram air, i was pointing out the sillyness of my father basically describing my stock setup as being a ram air system. And about the adapter i need to get... i kinda figured i would need somethign like that when i saw that one hose i was tlaking about that i didnt know what it was (which i later found out from a repair manual that it is somethign that measures the air temperature).  So yeah, that hose would have nowhere to connect to if i were to remove the current air filter box and just tac on the K&N cone filter. so uh... how much would one of those adapters costanyways? THank you all again for your replies, i appreciate the help <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> ps: fast and the furious was lame <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>  sure is odd how long some of those quarter-mile races lasted :\

03-08-2002, 05:22 PM	#8
Danio Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: SJ Bay Area Posts: 1,002 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I drove an 89 240SX before (but not anymore) and had put the K&N cone filter on. The cone I ordered came with everything I needed. I didn't have to get an adaptor separately. Maybe your friend didn't give you everything that was in the box. shrugs I believe the hot air worsened the performance. The car always ran better in mornings and nights and noticably more sluggishly in hot afternoons. In my opinion it's probably not something worth arguing over with your dad anyway if he refuses to let you put it on. Any performance gains that you might get probably wouldn't even be noticable. Maybe you should do the suspensions first. See if he'll tell you the stock suspension is better than any aftermarket ones.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> __________________ DKwan.com

03-08-2002, 06:04 PM	#9
Arcane Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 597 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	if i'm not mistaken...don't an air filter improve your gas milage too...i would bring up that point...in fact...my dad told me to get one as soon as i had enough money...the days of my first car...aaahh...memories... __________________ it's called a life...maybe you should get one!!!