What if I bought a f'd up head from a member here and he lied to paypal about it?

[BlazedGlory]

So I bought a head from opponheimer on august 9th. It arrived I guess a week later or so. He told me it was in perfect condition but missing a few parts, for he used it as a parts head.

It arrived in a box with packing peanuts! The cam caps were just tossed in a grocery bag with a bunch of other metal parts, so obviously a few of them were severely scratched. I didn't pull the head out because I didn't need it quite yet, and I was disgusted trying to pick all the peanuts out of it. The other day I pulled it out, and there are severe gashes in one of the combustion chamber quench areas! The quench areas on a couple other chambers were slightly pitted as well.

I contacted him about it on Sunday, and he told me he was on vacation and it costs him like $1/minute to use internet at the resort, and he asked if we could resolve it on Thursday when he got back. After noticing that he was constantly on zilvia throughout the day (online status check), I said I would contact paypal at the end of Monday if I didn't have the money back (plus extra for shipping back to him if he wanted the head back). So yesterday I contacted paypal, and told them the story. He said that wasn't the head he sent, and it looked like I hit the thing with a screwdriver in the pictures I sent him! So they closed it and now I'm fucked out of my money and really pissed.

Here is the pm conversations we had:

Originally Posted by opponheimer

Argh i'm telling you, the heads in perfecdt tip top shape, all u gotta do is clean the mating surface of the old headgasket. I said there may be scratches on the outside of the Cam Caps Only. Everything else is perfect and undamaged. valve guides/seals are perfect in this head. head is pretty clean and shows no signs of oil burning. If you look in exhaust port of cyl #1 you'll see caked oil from a blown piston ring though.

Here is my complaint on paypal:

As we discussed earlier, I would like a full refund plus money to ship it back to you if you want it back. When asked about the condition of the cylinder head, you said it "has nothing wrong with it. All valve seats/guides and cam journals are in 200% perfect condition." I specifically asked about the cam caps and combustion chambers and you told me "the head is in perfect tip top shape, all you gotta do is clean the mating surface of the old headgasket. I said there may be scratches on the outside of the cam caps only. Everything else is perfect and undamaged (all quotes were taken directly from our conversations via private message on www.zilvia.net online forums [and classifieds])." Upon arrival, at least two of the cam caps were severely scratched/gashed on the inside (cam surface), and others had minor scratches on the inside (cam surface). Further, one of the combustion chambers has SEVERE pitting/gashes/damage in the quench areas, and other chambers have minor pitting in the quench areas. This cylinder head is not fit for use without extensive machine work. As was discussed, all I want to be completely satisfied is a full refund ($125) plus additional money to pay for shipping back to you if you would like the head back. Thank you for understanding my frustration about being misled and outright lied to during this transaction.

and his response:

Alright Justin, my case: 1) Images provided to me were inconsistent with actual head sent. This head was removed from a motor with rod knock. Not from a catastrophic failure. Head was in good shape. 2) The head sent had been resurfaced 6 months prior to its disassemble. It had no such "gashes". Gashes inflicted on the head are consistent with stabbing from a screwdriver or sharp object. 3) Buyer did not notify me of the "damages" until 21 days after transaction had been completed. 4) Buyer demands refund, as if he is entitled to whatever he wants without returning the item for further examination. 5) Item was sent as described and was carefully packaged. Buyer has made claims and demands, and has insisted on my party outright refund him as well as fund return shipping for the "damaged item". 6) Item was sold as is was the unconditional buyer agreement. I will not comply with his demands. I am not happy with the buyer's story or demands. I'm a Premier paypal member and have yet to have a dissatisfied customer. I find it odd the buyer comes to me now, three weeks after transaction date. Furthermore I know how to correctly package an item, how the buyer handles it is not my concern. I will not accept returned, damaged goods.

What can I do? This is unbelievable. I knew I should've gotten pictures first!

[BlazedGlory]

sorry for the huge pictures:

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery...1/P1010260.JPG

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery...1/P1010261.JPG

http://photos.freshalloy.com/gallery...1/P1010262.JPG

This morning I was considering it was possibly his shitty packing job that caused this, but then I realized it was ONLY on the quench areas and not around them at all on the mating surface of the head...

[exitspeed]

There's two sides to every story...

I buy nothing that expensive without pics first. No pics, no deal. That's just me though.

I don't have a ton of experience with paypal, but I'm sure someone can give you some ideas.

Good luck though, cause that really sucks.

[TheWolf]

ur screwed.. paypal doesn't deal with quality assurance. they deal with tracking numbers and items shipping to confirmed addresses within 7 days of payment and signiture if over $250.

[BlazedGlory]

Originally Posted by exitspeed

There's two sides to every story...

I buy nothing that expensive without pics first. No pics, no deal. That's just me though.

There are two sides to every story - agreed. I guess I don't really expect anyone to take sides here. I'm just presenting the facts - and that is why I included every single quote. So basically to the onlooker either oppenheimer is a sack of shit and shipped me a fcked up head (which I know to be the truth, and why he wouldn't provide pictures even when I repeatedly asked for them, and I should have known better than to buy it on somebody's word), or the onlooker sees me as a guy who took this perfect head out of the box and took to the quench areas with an air chisel or something to somehow ruin oppenheimer's reputation... neither here nor there...

I shouldn't have bought it without pics. Perhaps I should learn my lesson right there and accept that there are many people out there willing to fuck you if you bend over to pick up their soap.

[exitspeed]

Originally Posted by BlazedGlory

and accept that there are many people out there willing to fuck you if you bend over to pick up their soap.

That's the truly sad part.

[HalveBlue]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to pop in to give you some heads up.

1. If you wish to file a dispute with Paypal you must do so within, I believe, 30 days. After that you're SOL, as far as Paypal is concerned.

2. If you paid with a credit card always contact your credit card issuer, regardless of whether you've contacted Paypal or not. That way if Paypal can't help you, your CC company may still be able to.

That's how I got a refund after the seller and Paypal basically told me to fuck off.

Good Luck!

[Farzam]

Sketchy?

GL to both buyer and seller.

[BlazedGlory]

Y'know I was just thinking. I have never bought anything on these or any other forum classifieds, although I have sold a few things. This is what I've always feared, and it happened the very first time lol

[drifting_changed_mylife]

u have any pics of the heads?? he does say that it has little scratches and stuff. to what extent are the damages?

[rican_nick]

that sucks man.. if u used a CC through paypal call them. If you used your bank Call them. Paypal is worthless if there's trackin info.. someone above described it best...they dont care about how the item was you received.. they only care that you received it.

i'm interested in hearing the other side of the story also. Lookin at the picks i dont "think" OP caused the damage himself.

This alone would of set a bad feeling about it all... and i wouldnt have dealt with this guy.. hope everything gets resolved.

Argh i'm telling you, the heads in perfecdt tip top shape, all u gotta do is clean the mating surface of the old headgasket. I said there may be scratches on the outside of the Cam Caps Only. Everything else is perfect and undamaged. valve guides/seals are perfect in this head. head is pretty clean and shows no signs of oil burning. If you look in exhaust port of cyl #1 you'll see caked oil from a blown piston ring though.

[BlazedGlory]

You mean you don't think I caused the damage myself? Or you think this happened in shipping after op sent it to me?

I used my bank. Could they actually do anything at this point?

[Phlip]

I am not saying any names or anything, but a certain moderator may have sent a certain member a PM just now beckoning for their attention to be drawn to this thread.

[rican_nick]

Originally Posted by BlazedGlory

You mean you don't think I caused the damage myself? Or you think this happened in shipping after op sent it to me?

I used my bank. Could they actually do anything at this point?

i dont believe the damage could of been intentionally or by shipping. This doesnt say much as its your word against his.

Getting the pics would of been your best friend. I think now a days its pretty common knowledge if ur wanting to sell something online.. u better have pics. No pics no buy.

as far as calling the bank.. You obviously dont have anything to loose at this point. I have had issues in the past that paypal denied my claim on that my bank resolved for me.

[ManoNegra]

I don't understand how the hell do you even get that kind of damage. Anyhow, good luck getting this mess resolved.

[opponheimer]

The pics you sent me showed severe damage on a head that had been resurfaced half a year prior to its removal. That I used. Either the head was damaged from shipping, or damaged from handling. The pics u sent me looked like it had been stabbed w/ a dull pointed object. I would not knowingly send a damaged head, especially when I'm not making money off of it. Not to mention each combustion area had 2 valves removed when I sent the head. And how does it take 2 weeks to notice damage so extensive? Did you drop the box with the head in it? Are there holes in the bottom of the box? Have you contacted UPS? Did you look or do any of these things.

Why not post pics.

[BlazedGlory]

Originally Posted by opponheimer

The pics you sent me showed severe damage on a head that had been resurfaced half a year prior to its removal. That I used. Either the head was damaged from shipping, or damaged from handling. The pics u sent me looked like it had been stabbed w/ a dull pointed object. I would not knowingly send a damaged head, especially when I'm not making money off of it. Not to mention each combustion area had 2 valves removed when I sent the head. And how does it take 2 weeks to notice damage so extensive? Did you drop the box with the head in it? Are there holes in the bottom of the box? Have you contacted UPS? Did you look or do any of these things.

Why not post pics.

Pictures are in the second post of the thread. After I calmed down I seriously considered the possibility of it happening during shipping, seeing as how it was packed (which I consider poor - there were holes in the top of the box where the studs were poking through from the head bouncing around I guess, and the cam caps were tossed in a sack with metal parts - go figure they got scratched up). But then I realized that the only damage (as you can see in the pictures) was in the combustion chambers only, and not outside of the "circles" at all. No damage appeared on the mating surface of the head.

To be honest, it took me that long to notice because I never pulled it out at first. I think I mentioned something about that to you in my first message I sent you about how disgusted I was about the way it was packed and what I saw when I found the cam caps... In fact, I'll go find my pm and quote it.

Well you told me the head was in tip top shape. You told me that the cam caps were scratched on the outside only. Nearly every single one was scratched/gouged up on the INSIDE! But should I be surprised? They were tossed in with a bag of metal parts! I can't believe the way this was packed. I haven't even finished pulling the head out of the box because I grew more disgusted with every packing peanut I picked out of the head. I'm going to take this to my machinist on my next day off to see what he thinks about it. If he says all these negligent little damages are unrepairable or not worth it you will be getting your "perfect tip top" head back and I will be getting my money back.

I guess that's what I get for buying something used without pictures...

I actually haven't had a day off during the week to take it to the machinist, but this weekend I realized I had a day off coming up (yesterday), so I got to pulling all those peanuts off...

I did not drop the box with the head in it, but it just got shipped to GA from WV in a loosely packed box... but again, I don't see how UPS can be blamed, for the only damage is literally in the quench areas - not even a little outside them on the mating surface.

[fromxtor]

I know this might not be any consolation but, check this thread out maybe you can get it fixed?
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...ad#post1268463

[KarolinaKid]

I usually lurk on here from time to time and don't participate much, but this thread was brought to my attention by somone and I thought I'd throw in some observations.

Firstly, you messed up not getting pics before paying for it. You left yourself open to this by not protecting yourself. I would advise contacting your bank ASAP to see what they can do.

However, I can't stand shady people and I thought I'd add some fuel to the fire.

Interesting things to note:

The damage is within the bore and no where else. So.... probably not shipping damage regardless of how poorly it was packed.

The damage seems to be mostly on the Exhaust side of the head. That is where things get the hottest and tend to come apart more quickly.

There is carbon buildup in the damaged areas as if the engine was running while the damage occured. If it were from a screwdriver, I would expect fresh metal to be seen in the gouges.

The size and shape of the damage areas are more consistent with broken pieces of a piston coming up and smashing the head. They are all sorts of different shapes and sizes. A screwdriver would make gouges consistent with a screwdriver tip. Not a large triangular depression like is seen in at least one of the pics.

My advice to the buyer was given, now I give the seller advice:

Man up and refund the money and count it as a loss instead of trying to BS your way out of this. You'll only make yourself look like a tool in the end.

JDM ALan

[BlazedGlory]

Originally Posted by opponheimer

The pics you sent me showed severe damage on a head that had been resurfaced half a year prior to its removal. That I used. Either the head was damaged from shipping, or damaged from handling. The pics u sent me looked like it had been stabbed w/ a dull pointed object. I would not knowingly send a damaged head, especially when I'm not making money off of it. Not to mention each combustion area had 2 valves removed when I sent the head. And how does it take 2 weeks to notice damage so extensive? Did you drop the box with the head in it? Are there holes in the bottom of the box? Have you contacted UPS? Did you look or do any of these things.

Why not post pics.

I just realized you claimed each combustion area had 2 valves removed when you sent the head. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that you are just outright lying. Those pictures are exactly as the head arrived. I have still done nothing to it. There were some loose valves stuck up in there, maybe you are just thinking about valvesprings and retainers being removed...

[BlazedGlory]

Originally Posted by fromxtor

I know this might not be any consolation but, check this thread out maybe you can get it fixed?
http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...ad#post1268463

I showed my machinist yesterday, and he said he would not try and weld those areas because the valve seats are right on the other side... I guess it may work but it would be risky. You can see how the valves changed color in those pictures that guy posted after he welded the quench areas. They could also be warped - who knows...

[BlazedGlory]

Originally Posted by KarolinaKid

I usually lurk on here from time to time and don't participate much, but this thread was brought to my attention by somone and I thought I'd throw in some observations.

Firstly, you messed up not getting pics before paying for it. You left yourself open to this by not protecting yourself. I would advise contacting your bank ASAP to see what they can do.

However, I can't stand shady people and I thought I'd add some fuel to the fire.

Interesting things to note:

The damage is within the bore and no where else. So.... probably not shipping damage regardless of how poorly it was packed.

The damage seems to be mostly on the Exhaust side of the head. That is where things get the hottest and tend to come apart more quickly.

There is carbon buildup in the damaged areas as if the engine was running while the damage occured. If it were from a screwdriver, I would expect fresh metal to be seen in the gouges.

The size and shape of the damage areas are more consistent with broken pieces of a piston coming up and smashing the head. They are all sorts of different shapes and sizes. A screwdriver would make gouges consistent with a screwdriver tip. Not a large triangular depression like is seen in at least one of the pics.

My advice to the buyer was given, now I give the seller advice:

Man up and refund the money and count it as a loss instead of trying to BS your way out of this. You'll only make yourself look like a tool in the end.

JDM ALan

I realize I set myself up on this one.

But do you think someone who would take someone else's money and ship them something looking like this would actually man up and give them back their money? He knew what he was doing all along. There is no way he could've thought someone would just try and use the head as is, so he had to have known I would pitch a bitch about it...

Further, oppenheimer, why did you lie about being on vacation with your family and the resort charging you $1/minute to access the internet? You said you would be back on Thursday to resolve this issue. Yet you were constantly on zilvia.net (mods i'm sure you can confirm this with some sort of online status logging), you dealt with paypal, and then posted in this thread... All before Thursday. The lies just keep flowing...

I may have his name and address. I guess I could contact the authorities if it comes down to it..

[Phlip]

Look, I left this open to give him a chance to clear his name, but at this point, we're kinda arguing around the point.
Could you please take this to PM and/or start a regular reviewed thread telling people of your experience, kind of as "caveat emptor"?