Frankenstien KA/SR

[SilviaDriver]

yea i used the search already on this, and somebody did post it and said it couldnt be done because of the displancement problems ors omething but..

as for the frankenstien on the Bseries like the CRVtec

CRVtec:
B16 head
B20 bottom

on the old post they said becuz of the .4 L diff, but that CRVtec has a .4L diff, so y wouldnt it work?

the only thing im thinking of y the CRVtec works is becuz its the same Series, whereas the engines im talkin about is SR/KA

[adey]

I know absolutely jack sh*t about our engines (or any engines for that matter) but if I can just display my ignorance for one second.......

I do believe using the CA18DET head (I'm not sure if this is the same as the CA18ET or any other CA-series motors) on either an SR bottom or KA bottom would be a 'better' choice if anyone were really going to undertake such a project. The flow-characteristics of the CA are apparently very well known to be one of the best among nissan engines.

On the other hand, I don't think any cross/mis-matching of heads (CA/SR/KA) would work, if only because they wouldn't bolt up. ... I'm sure there're a host of other problems too, but that's where my ignorance *really* shines!! <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

[ca18guy]

Won't work. &nbsp;Different size blocks make different sized heads and of course the bolt patterns. &nbsp;Much easier to just get head work done on the existing head.

[SilviaDriver]

diff bolt patterns, cant u drill holes or something? just like how places a head on a bottom to make LS/VTEC etc.. u need to drill new oil lines to make it work.


adey: well i dunno wats the point of using a CA head on a SR bottom is for, i dunno wat the redline for a CA is, but i know the SR is 7000, the point they use a b16 head is for the high revs, and the b20 bottom is for the torque, so if the CA has a lower rev than the SR @ 7000 there is no point.

of course there is gonna be problems, but it can be fixed juss look at the i think its Skunk2 drag Integra, i think its a LS/Vtec and it runs dandy

[SaintlyCharBoy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SilviaDriver @ Sep. 27 2002,05:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">as for the frankenstien on the Bseries like the CRVtec
CRVtec:
B16 head
B20 bottom...
the only thing im thinking of y the CRVtec works is becuz its the same Series, whereas the engines im talkin about is SR/KA</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
you've got it right there... the honda hybrids work because they are the same series.

the equivalent would be making an rb20 head fit an rb25 or 26

the ka, sr, and ca are completely unrelated except in that they all fit nicely into the s chassis, and follow a sort of "family lineage"

you could probably also make something like this work with the old L series motors, but i know VERY little about them

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SilviaDriver @ Sep. 27 2002,11:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">diff bolt patterns, cant u drill holes or something? just like how places a head on a bottom to make LS/VTEC etc.. u need to drill new oil lines to make it work.


adey: well i dunno wats the point of using a CA head on a SR bottom is for, i dunno wat the redline for a CA is, but i know the SR is 7000, the point they use a b16 head is for the high revs, and the b20 bottom is for the torque, so if the CA has a lower rev than the SR @ 7000 there is no point.

of course there is gonna be problems, but it can be fixed juss look at the i think its Skunk2 drag Integra, i think its a LS/Vtec and it runs dandy</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
What would you do about the pistons being spaced out different on each block and also the diameter of the pistons on different blocks.

I think adey mentioned ca cause its known to have the best flow charectheristics and can be revved to the 9000 range with lil mods.

[adey]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ca18guy @ Sep. 27 2002,03:58)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">... and can be revved to the 9000 range with lil mods.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/inlove.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>
Just the mention of that really puts a tingle to my groin!

[S13Grl]

What are you gonna do about the oil and coolant passages? It's not just about bolts. If you've ever looked at a 2.4 vs. a 2.0 Nissan motor, you will notice &nbsp;HUGE difference in size. Humongous. I have never looked underneath the hood of a CA-equipped car, so I don't know how the CA and the SR will line up, but I'm assuming it won't be similar at all, just because theyr'e two completely different motors. You can play with KA heads from the FWD KA and the RWD KAs (some years were better, some worse) but that's about it.

[AKADriver]

The CA is a TINY engine. &nbsp;I had a CA20E powered car, it looked similar to a KA24E at 80% size.

There's no real use in speculating, the CA, SR, and KA are completely different engine families. &nbsp;I'm fairly sure the bore spacing (center-to-center distance between each cylinder) is different between them.

The KA does share a bore spacing with the FJ and Z series engines. &nbsp;With some work, an FJ20E(T) head might fit. &nbsp;That would make a wicked combo. &nbsp;Nissan actually made something like this back in the early '80s, for a rally car based on the S110 Silvia called the 240RS.

[stil bil]

do you guys know of anybody that can do head work and do it well?

[DuffMan]

What about a KA24DE head on a KA20 block to make a higher revving perfectly square KA.

[tnord]

i know people that do great head work <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':but:'>

as far as engine related stuff, yeah, i know a great place, but they're in MN.

[SilviaDriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tnord @ Sep. 28 2002,6:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">i know people that do great head work <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/butbut.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':but:'>

as far as engine related stuff, yeah, i know a great place, but they're in MN.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
HAHHAHAHA that some funny shit!!!!

Stil Bil: ur questio is very vauge, y?
1] we dont even know where u live
2] i live in CA, and if i do knwo are u willng to travel down here to get it done?

tell us where ur from then we can answer it..then we can tell you.

[SilviaDriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DuffMan @ Sep. 28 2002,4:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What about a KA24DE head on a KA20 block to make a higher revving perfectly square KA.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hey do u know the status on the KA20? like the hp redline and torque?

puttin ghte KA24 head on a KA20 bottom would mean, the KA24 has a higher redline [6400 high?] and that the KA20 has a lot more torque than the KA24 [160+]

[AKADriver]

I can't think of a reason to use the KA24DE head in place of a 12v KA head... even though it flows better out of the box, there's more development work done to the KA24E/KA20E 12v head, larger camshaft selection, etc. &nbsp;Making the 12v head rev is not a problem.

A KA20 will produce less torque. &nbsp;It's smaller. &nbsp;It has a higher rev capability on the bottom end thanks to having an 80mm stroke versus the KA24's 96mm stroke. &nbsp;IMO it's not worth the loss in displacement, though. &nbsp;The KA heads work very well with the KA24's long stroke.

[misnomer]

I have never heard of a KA20. Ever. Gimme more information. I need my fix for the night.

[WhiteS13]

For the amount of money you drop to make a SR head fit a KA block, you can stroke the SR instead.

[SilviaDriver]

its not about stoking an SR head to make bigger displacement, its about being diff.

[Archangel]

the CRVtec and the LS/Vtec are one of the reasons Hondas let the way in import tuning. You can put the head and block of virutually any Bseries engines together, it just happens that those are some of the best combos. &nbsp;the interchangable parts made hondas easy to work with and improve on.
This is all possible because they're all b-series honda engines. &nbsp;Very few other companies make so many engines similar.
Unfortunately, this is really an Almost honda exclusive situation. &nbsp;
If you want to be different, look into the CA18, very, very few people have those in 240's in the US.
Or if money is not a problem, it is possible with alot of work to cram an RB26 (Skyline GTR engine) into a 240. &nbsp;That's probably the rarest swap in the US if not the world.

[Olay180]

Yea, so back to the original question. In Honda terms, its like trying to put a b-series head on a h-series motor. It's just pointless. Ka's make good torque, SR's do also. If you want more torque out of your SR, stroke it.

[Bbandit]

believe me.. dont do frankenstein...
one of the reason i sold my ls/vtec integra was the reliability issues...
a lot better if you improve the performance of each... not &nbsp;by combining them..

[ca18guy]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (AKADriver @ Sep. 29 2002,08:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The CA is a TINY engine. I had a CA20E powered car, it looked similar to a KA24E at 80% size.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Speaking of frankenstiens... why not steal the block or crank from a ca20e and see if it works in a ca18 making a ca20det <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''> Might work might not.

[luke91]

You guys are missing the obvious...

Honda B16A, B18c, B20, B17's heads and blocks are all interchangeable (for the most part), because they all have the same design. &nbsp;Hence the "b" block code. &nbsp;

Nissan L30, L28's, etc., heads and blocks are interchangeable for the same reason, hence the "L' designation.

Nissan SR, RB, KA, VG's are NOT interchangeable. &nbsp;The blocks and heads are entirely different. &nbsp;Hence the designations "SR, RB, KA, and VG. &nbsp;

An S13/S15 SR20 may be possible, but it's impractical. &nbsp;

Honda hybrids are common because Honda engines are easy to find and are cheap. &nbsp;It makes sense to re-arrange blocks and heads to have Vtec on a previously non-Vtec engine.

Doing this with SR20's is just too expensive, and the benefits of VTC aren't worth the money. &nbsp;Trying to do it with KA's is just plain silly. &nbsp;why would you want to spend the money to buy an SR, just to rip it's head off? &nbsp;You can get a KA head ported for around $300!!!!!! &nbsp;Much cheaper than making a &nbsp;KA/SR hybrid!! &nbsp;

--luke

[luke91]

As far as getting ANY engine to rev higher, you have two options:

1. De-stroke. &nbsp;Expensive, and also takes away from displacement. &nbsp;

2. Deck plate/longer connecting rod (by the same amount)
Longer rod ratio=higher rev potential.

--luke

[uiuc240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (luke91 @ Oct. 03 2002,2:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You guys are missing the obvious...

Honda B16A, B18c, B20, B17's heads and blocks are all interchangeable (for the most part), because they all have the same design. Hence the "b" block code.

Nissan L30, L28's, etc., heads and blocks are interchangeable for the same reason, hence the "L' designation.

Nissan SR, RB, KA, VG's are NOT interchangeable. The blocks and heads are entirely different. Hence the designations "SR, RB, KA, and VG.

An S13/S15 SR20 may be possible, but it's impractical.

Honda hybrids are common because Honda engines are easy to find and are cheap. It makes sense to re-arrange blocks and heads to have Vtec on a previously non-Vtec engine.

Doing this with SR20's is just too expensive, and the benefits of VTC aren't worth the money. Trying to do it with KA's is just plain silly. why would you want to spend the money to buy an SR, just to rip it's head off? You can get a KA head ported for around $300!!!!!! Much cheaper than making a KA/SR hybrid!!

--luke</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
and the KA24E and DE heads will NOT SWAP. &nbsp;there are so many difference in the block and overall design it's not even funny.

Eric