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[Loren]

Well, until today I never saw myself asking this, but things change, here it goes.. I've talked to my dad on and off and 240s and engine swaps, and hes always seemed a little disinterested. But today I had a long talk with him today about it. He doesn't like the idea of buying a car, and having to swap engines (everyone knows im anti KA-T) and that it costs way to much money to get a 240 fast. You know he does have a serious point. 240s aren't the best car to get them to go fast in a straight line. But before I go any farther let me say that Im not dissing the 240, even tho they are expensive to get fast, its worth it, because those little engines don't take up much weight, and add to the awesome weight distrubution. I'd love to have a CA powered 240, but my dad doesn't see eye to eye with me on this, and since its his money, Im gonna let this one go, and settle for a Camaro, possibly a Mustang. My dad has owned nothing but GM cars his entire life (and hes owned a lot), except for his first car which was a Mustang. Hes all about Chevy, and made mention about getting a new body style Camaro for himself for a daily driver. So Im thinking of getting a new body style Camaro putting a blower on it, and having the fastest car at my school, yeah it will only be straight line, but i'll have to get over it. Now to the main point, I need to find a good Camaro Forum, Mustang too. If any of you guys know of one, please tell me.. and I know a lot of people on this forum hate me anyways, so if you want me gone, just reccomend a forum for me.. Im sorry for selling out, but i can't argue with the man whos buying me a car/paying for my insurance.

[Jeff240sx]

I feel your suffering, because it is his money. As opposed to my own $14000 that I have put into my car.
So anyway... you're leaving. Have you tried searching "google" or something for those forums? There are dozens of them. Z28.com offhand.
And why are you (EDIT) anti (END EDIT) KA-T? There is no difference in a KA-T and a V8 in sheer torque feel. Anyway. So you can't have daddy buy you a 240, and swap engines or turbo it, but you can have daddy buy you a camaro and blow it.
Oh well. I can't say that you'll be missed here, based on recent posts and events, but have fun in your new car.
And I seriously can't believe you have 230some posts w/o owning a car. LOL!
-Jeff

[Loren]

Im not going to get into why im anti ka.. its not for me, if you like it thats fine, im not bashing you. I came hear to learn more about 240s, and I'd say I have a pretty good grasp of things now.. Not trying to piss anyone off but I've got 230 posts, average post rate of a little over 1 a day. Kidynomite has over 1000 posts, average post rate of almost 7.5!!! And he doesn't have a car either.. can you say post whore!

[Is that a ???]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jeff240sx @ Oct. 01 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh well. I can't say that you'll be missed here, based on recent posts and events, but have fun in your new car.
And I seriously can't believe you have 230some posts w/o owning a car. LOL!
-Jeff</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
hahahahaha/TOO funny/Over 200 posts & no car? I think there might be a BMX site or somwthing

So have ur daddy buy you a 240 now & when you are old enough buy the SR swap on your own. If you dont even have a car now , you think the best idea would be to jump into a SR? Well good luck with whatever you do.

[Loren]

Oh yeah, my dad likes Chevy a lot.. he trusts them, he loves them, and to him its more practical to pay 15k for a nice car with less than 50k miles, then spend 3k to blow it, instead of 15k for a car, then spend over 7k in mods to get the same times, plus a hell of a lot more work, and an engine swap..

[Loren]

Im used to the power.. my dad has a 12second, and a 11second car that i occasionally get to drive.

[Kreator]

yeah yeah, just get yourself a camaro or a mustang and finally leave this forum &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/thumbs-up.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':thumbsup:'>

[ridebmx]

i really dont think you would have to spend 15k to get a 240

[Loren]

98 >50k miles.. yeah its about that much

[ridebmx]

or how about a 97 with 28,000 miles for 825 dollars??

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 01 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, my dad likes Chevy a lot.. he trusts them, he loves them, and to him its more practical to pay 15k for a nice car with less than 50k miles, then spend 3k to blow it, instead of 15k for a car, then spend over 7k in mods to get the same times, plus a hell of a lot more work, and an engine swap..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No offence dude, but you honestly have no idea of what you are saying. &nbsp;When I was 12, my neighbor bought a 66 nova body for 1600 dollars. &nbsp;This is how I started out in cars. &nbsp;We purchased a 350 lt1 from a 95 z28. &nbsp;Did all the work ourselves, slapped a blower on it, built up internals, nice paintjob, gears, built up the tranny, and dynoed it out at around 650 ponies and endless torque. &nbsp;Long story short, projected started at 1600...all said and done with stage one....around $17k dropped into it. &nbsp;This is the funny part...first time at the track, second run...threw a rod and the flywheel. &nbsp;Good thing we had a blow-proof installed.

Anyway you go about building up a car...demostic or import, it's expensive, and can be unreliable. &nbsp; You go get your daddy's camaro though, and learn the hard way though. &nbsp;Just remember that an sr goes for around 2k and some bolt ons will get you in low 13's high 12's, and can still turn left and right.

[240racer]

If you are debating between the mustang and the camero, then I'm going to have to suggest the mustang, if you can see your self driving one. &nbsp;I can't, I wouldn't want to be caught dead in one, but that's another issue. &nbsp;They are by far the fastest drag car for the money, the camero isn't even close. &nbsp;Go to any local drag event and you will see way more 'stangs there. &nbsp;Plus the new DOHC 4.6 engine rocks and I want one. &nbsp;I just also want ind. rear suspension but that's just a pet peave. &nbsp;
Get the stang, have the fastest car in town and let dad pay for it, sounds like an awesome plan

BTW I spell camaro -> camero because I think it sounds cheesier not because I can't spell. &nbsp;also I have a 13 second (almost if I can launch) 240 that I have invested a total of $2000 into

good luck

[particleeffect]

www.ls1.com for chevy and www.corral.net for ford are two of the biggest places to go.

but i'll steer clear of the which is better debate.

[DMCS14]

so u spent all this time learnin about 240s and now your gonna buy a cmamaro and blow it? wow sounds like you been plannin that for awhile. It isnt necessarily how fast your car is but how much you get done to it like i would rather have a slow 240 with a bunch of internal stuff done cai headers exhaust forged pistons nos then a blown camaro. And why does your dad have 2 camamros that run over 11s why doesnt he sell one and make th other run 9s? i dont no much about 240s................but i have one.

edit: that makes no sense, just go buy a camaro

[Loren]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tyler Durdan @ Oct. 02 2002,5:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 01 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, my dad likes Chevy a lot.. he trusts them, he loves them, and to him its more practical to pay 15k for a nice car with less than 50k miles, then spend 3k to blow it, instead of 15k for a car, then spend over 7k in mods to get the same times, plus a hell of a lot more work, and an engine swap..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No offence dude, but you honestly have no idea of what you are saying. When I was 12, my neighbor bought a 66 nova body for 1600 dollars. This is how I started out in cars. We purchased a 350 lt1 from a 95 z28. Did all the work ourselves, slapped a blower on it, built up internals, nice paintjob, gears, built up the tranny, and dynoed it out at around 650 ponies and endless torque. Long story short, projected started at 1600...all said and done with stage one....around $17k dropped into it. This is the funny part...first time at the track, second run...threw a rod and the flywheel. Good thing we had a blow-proof installed.

Anyway you go about building up a car...demostic or import, it's expensive, and can be unreliable. You go get your daddy's camaro though, and learn the hard way though. Just remember that an sr goes for around 2k and some bolt ons will get you in low 13's high 12's, and can still turn left and right.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
When I was 6, I'd seen my dad build 2 hot rods, and seen his two best friends build 3 amongst themselves. In fact it is you that has no clue what your talking about. On any car you can run force induction on stock internals, the problem is how much. The point of forged and balanced components has to do with how much power your running, which translates to the abuse that the rotating mass is taking. So if you have a high powered engine, Forced Induction or Naturally Aspirated, you will have to change the internals (that is of course if the stock ones power handling is exceded). Typically for a NA engine you will run higher compression pistons and for a FI you will run lower. So back to the point at hand, you can run a blower on a stock F-Body, of course you'll need air flowing capabalities (intake/exhaust) as well as a remapped ECU. Of course if you want to run a lot of boost you'd have to put in lower compression forged slugs, but in my case, just wanting a little boost (keep in mind the engine comes from the factory with over 300hp) you can get away with never touching any of the greasy bits.

my dad doesn't have 2 camaros, he has a firebird tho.. He has a 70 El Camino, that runs high 11s, and a 70 corvette that runs high 12s. The reason he doesn't sell them and make one 9 second car, is because the corvette is a driving car, not a drag queen, and if he wanted to run lower times on the El Camino he would just take the 550+horse engine and put in a car that wayed 3k or less instead of the El Camino which is 3800lbs (its a sleeper, all stock interior, body panels, not tubbed...)

[AKADriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 01 2002,11:29)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">yeah it will only be straight line, but i'll have to get over it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Not true at all. &nbsp;Look at the autocross classes... &nbsp;Camaro SS's are in the same Stock class as the S2000, previous gen M3, FC RX-7, MR2 Turbo.

There's a ton of suspension aftermarket for the F-body too.

If you care about handling at all, save your pennies and get an SS or a Firebird WS6. &nbsp;They're amazing machines. &nbsp;The Z28, regular Firebird, and Mustang aren't quite so impressive in that respect.

[AKADriver]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (240racer @ Oct. 02 2002,5:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They are by far the fastest drag car for the money, the camero isn't even close. Go to any local drag event and you will see way more 'stangs there. Plus the new DOHC 4.6 engine rocks and I want one.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That was true for the 5.0. &nbsp;The 4.6 is pretty lackluster, especially the SOHC, though the blown DOHC in the 2003 Cobra is nice. &nbsp;Out of the box, if he's buying recent models, the LS1 F-bodies are far quicker. &nbsp;300hp at the rear wheels for under $23000 brand new.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 02 2002,11:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tyler Durdan @ Oct. 02 2002,5:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 01 2002,12:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, my dad likes Chevy a lot.. he trusts them, he loves them, and to him its more practical to pay 15k for a nice car with less than 50k miles, then spend 3k to blow it, instead of 15k for a car, then spend over 7k in mods to get the same times, plus a hell of a lot more work, and an engine swap..</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No offence dude, but you honestly have no idea of what you are saying. When I was 12, my neighbor bought a 66 nova body for 1600 dollars. This is how I started out in cars. We purchased a 350 lt1 from a 95 z28. Did all the work ourselves, slapped a blower on it, built up internals, nice paintjob, gears, built up the tranny, and dynoed it out at around 650 ponies and endless torque. Long story short, projected started at 1600...all said and done with stage one....around $17k dropped into it. This is the funny part...first time at the track, second run...threw a rod and the flywheel. Good thing we had a blow-proof installed.

Anyway you go about building up a car...demostic or import, it's expensive, and can be unreliable. You go get your daddy's camaro though, and learn the hard way though. Just remember that an sr goes for around 2k and some bolt ons will get you in low 13's high 12's, and can still turn left and right.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
When I was 6, I'd seen my dad build 2 hot rods, and seen his two best friends build 3 amongst themselves. In fact it is you that has no clue what your talking about. On any car you can run force induction on stock internals, the problem is how much. The point of forged and balanced components has to do with how much power your running, which translates to the abuse that the rotating mass is taking. So if you have a high powered engine, Forced Induction or Naturally Aspirated, you will have to change the internals (that is of course if the stock ones power handling is exceded). Typically for a NA engine you will run higher compression pistons and for a FI you will run lower. So back to the point at hand, you can run a blower on a stock F-Body, of course you'll need air flowing capabalities (intake/exhaust) as well as a remapped ECU. Of course if you want to run a lot of boost you'd have to put in lower compression forged slugs, but in my case, just wanting a little boost (keep in mind the engine comes from the factory with over 300hp) you can get away with never touching any of the greasy bits.

my dad doesn't have 2 camaros, he has a firebird tho.. He has a 70 El Camino, that runs high 11s, and a 70 corvette that runs high 12s. The reason he doesn't sell them and make one 9 second car, is because the corvette is a driving car, not a drag queen, and if he wanted to run lower times on the El Camino he would just take the 550+horse engine and put in a car that wayed 3k or less instead of the El Camino which is 3800lbs (its a sleeper, all stock interior, body panels, not tubbed...)</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Don't tell me I don't have a clue...I have done 4 different installs of blowers on the 350...including my old 88 which ran 11.98 in the quarter. &nbsp;Mainly my point was that it's going to be expensive either way you go about it. &nbsp;It may not be the initial expense of the blower, bigger fuel pump...which is a bitch on the camaro, and so on that's expensive. &nbsp;You will eventually throw a shaft, screw up your valves, and so on that will start costing a lot. &nbsp;I blew the tranny mounts on my camaro on four different occassions...it's the reliablity of a high horsepowered car that will cost you. &nbsp;Whether you go import or demostic, it's always the reliablity cost that adds up, not the initial cost.

[twofortysx]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

GM sucks, man. &nbsp;Just buy the 240 and have the best looking car in school. &nbsp;If you get a Camaro, you might have the fastest, but only when it's running.

[WaKeMaN]

I've been on both sides of the fence...

My Z28 is (was) still my favorite car to date. &nbsp;The fact that I could buy a car for $8500 that could snap my head back into the seat without spending an extra dime on it was amazing. &nbsp;But there are things about my 240 that are growing on me... 1st, the amount of cash saved on gas! &nbsp;2nd the flickability (you know what I mean) that comes with a car that weighs nearly a thousand lbs less that the camaro with the same drivetrain type. &nbsp;Also, lower insurance rates, and the fact that every zit faced high school kid doesn't have one, nor know what the hell it is for that matter.

My favorite Camaro forum was camaroz28.com... good place, good people.

P.S. &nbsp;A good (intercooled or aftercooled) blower kit (vortech, powerdyne, etc.) will cost you more than an SR swap... &nbsp;At least for an LT1 or LS1. &nbsp;Not sure about the 'Stangs. &nbsp;<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/whatsthat.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':whatthe:'>

[Loren]

ok tyler.. people run 9psi on stock internal'd F-Bodys all day. I was planning on running 6. Im not gonna throw a "shaft" or anything. I said I was gonna quit nitpicking, but your fairly dumb, you don't throw crankshafts, the rods get thrown. A crank will touch the bearings because of the lack of lubrication/spinning too fast/hard. Hate to break this to you guys, but I can buy a camaro, for virtually the same price as 240(same year/miles), and the camaro will have over TWICE the horsepower of a 240. By the time you get a SR and do the bolt ons to get to that power range, you've spent around 4k (at least, i haven't done the math, so i said a liberal 4k).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">GM sucks, man. &nbsp;Just buy the 240 and have the best looking car in school. &nbsp;If you get a Camaro, you might have the fastest, but only when it's running.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

I only car about cars that are running, the Camaro stock vs. the 240sx stock is a lot more sportier. And unless a car isn't ass ugly and is gonna get me made fun of to no end, I don't really care as long as it performs well. But looks are definetly subjective, I'd say more than 90% of people (that i associate with) would say the Camaro looks better than a S14a stock.

Oh just hit me that you might be talking about reliability, GMs are reliable cars, and today basically all cars are reliable, You don't go buy and brand new car and have it break down all the time.

[Kreator]

Hey dude, just leave this place. noone wants you here and nobody really cares what u think. Just don't come crying to us when your ass hurts all over cuz the car is uncomfotable. And sorry to brake this to you, but the newer generation camaros are ugly poses (after 92) and don't even get close to the way 240 looks

P.S. mods - lock this?

[Loren]

Kreator, theres no need for this thread to be locked. Its not out of hand, were comparing 240s and F-Bodys and exchanging ideas and information. Who are you to think you can come in and ask for this post to be locked. Granted im not very popular here, but guess what, neither are you, there wouldn't be many people crying if you left.

[dave240sx]

Come on People. We're comparing these 2 cars and they're really not even in the same class so it doesn't matter.

240 - Import Generation ( I guess that is what you would call it)
4 cyl
140 or 155 hp.

z28 - Muscle car Generation
8 cyl
285 - 335hp

Really the HP #'s are more impressive on the 240 than the camaro when looking at HP per Liter.

The 240 has about:
155 (HP) / 2.4 (liters) = apr. 64.583 hp per liter

The Camaro has about
285 (hp) / 5.7 (liters) = apr. 50 HP per Liter
or
335 (HP)/ 5.7(Liters) = apr. 58.772 HP per Liter

My buddy just bought a 02 Camaro SS. I love the car to death. It handles great Excellerates, Awsome, Sounds great.

IMO these 2 cars should not be compared together though.

I say you should get the Mustang over the camaro though because you'll fit right in with their holyer than thou attitude.

[Tyler Durdan]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Loren @ Oct. 02 2002,3:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok tyler.. people run 9psi on stock internal'd F-Bodys all day. I was planning on running 6. Im not gonna throw a "shaft" or anything. I said I was gonna quit nitpicking, but your fairly dumb, you don't throw crankshafts, the rods get thrown. A crank will touch the bearings because of the lack of lubrication/spinning too fast/hard. Hate to break this to you guys, but I can buy a camaro, for virtually the same price as 240(same year/miles), and the camaro will have over TWICE the horsepower of a 240. By the time you get a SR and do the bolt ons to get to that power range, you've spent around 4k (at least, i haven't done the math, so i said a liberal 4k).

I only car about cars that are running, the Camaro stock vs. the 240sx stock is a lot more sportier. And unless a car isn't ass ugly and is gonna get me made fun of to no end, I don't really care as long as it performs well. But looks are definetly subjective, I'd say more than 90% of people (that i associate with) would say the Camaro looks better than a S14a stock.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
First off, running 9 psi on stock internals with a vortech supercharger can be done, but eventually you will burn up a valve from getting on it. &nbsp;Second, you are right about the shaft being thrown...I was typing in rush as I was hurrying to get to class. &nbsp;Third, a shaft is broken due to a large amount of torque being transferred in a very short amount of time. &nbsp;As for the dumb comment, I though I was having a conversation. &nbsp;I bet you wouldn't say I was dumb to my face. &nbsp;

As for buying a camaro, good for you....but don't you dare rip into the 240. &nbsp;I wanted one for a long time, searched for a long time, and finally found one about 8 months ago. &nbsp;I'll be damned if some little punkass is gonna talk shit about my car...especially one who can't even afford his own car.

[Loren]

Tyler.. calm down, your right, I wouldn't call you dumb to your face.. well i might have in the heat of the moment, but you put me on the defensive saying i didn't know what i was talking about when i did in fact. I said 6psi, but I've looked into it more, and Im thinking more towards NA, and possibly even on I/C/E. Don't turn this into a little battle, because its not. Your last sentence is kinda harsh. Let me quote myself from the starting post of this thread:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But before I go any farther let me say that Im not dissing the 240, even tho they are expensive to get fast, its worth it, because those little engines don't take up much weight, and add to the awesome weight distrubution. I'd love to have a CA powered 240, but my dad doesn't see eye to eye with me on this, and since its his money, Im gonna let this one go, and settle for a Camaro, possibly a Mustang. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

If my dad layed 30k out on the table, and I could get anything, it would be a S14a heavily modded. But unfortunately its less money than that, and hes going to have to agree with it, he doesn't like the idea of cutting up harnesses and what not. Im 18, when you were 18 what could you afford... FYI I could and buy a S13 in cold hard right now.

[Jeff240sx]

Ohh.. I didn't realize that you guys were talking about crankshafts when he said "shaft." &nbsp;I was going more along the lines of driveshaft, which I have seen spin out of one mustang, an old monte carlo, a chevelle, a nova, and a z28. &nbsp;Those things cause tremendous damage. &nbsp;But just because the crank can handle the power, a slight oil problem could seize a bearing, and crack a crank fast. &nbsp;
But anyway... I was in a 1996 Z28, NA with exhaust, intake, injectors and cams, revving in Daren's driveway. &nbsp;A rod bearing seized, and shot the rod out the block, and cracked his crank. &nbsp;This is just about 420rwhp. &nbsp;And $4k into the motor. &nbsp;I dunno, it just seems american machines aren't quite as good as a imports, due to stock parts strength, and tolerances.
But... this all come out to your call. &nbsp;Have fun with whatever you do.
-Jeff

[Loren]

Agreed that dosmectics aren't as strong from the factory as Japanese. Better designed products from the factory, with a lot tighter clearances. Quoting myself:
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A crank will touch the bearings because of the lack of lubrication/spinning too fast/hard.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Theres always aftermarket, and you see people swapping internals a lot quicker in dosmectics than in japanese engines. Although the chevy smallblock oiling systems is one of the best, anyone not running thousands of horsepower uses the stock oiling system, that has not been altered since the 60s.

[SIEKER]

i feel lost here. at one side, we have the talk about domestic power straight out of the box. on the other side, we have the 240, which will take some extra time and money to make power (i believe the sr swap talk was floating around in this thread). Some good points have been made on BOTH topics (import vs domestic). however, personally i'd go with the 240 project car loren. Think about it, people won't even know what it is in your town. everyone knows what a camaro is and a mustang is, but the 240? i could picture it now, "what? is that one of them civic vee-teck things?" from the locals. you could build up a 240 with your sr20 swap, and burn the local cars all while LOOKING GOOD. The 240 isn't the fastest car or really a "fast" car by any means, but the handling is just sweet. put together the sweet handling with the sr swap and a little more work...you'll have one badass machine that'll surprise the hell out of the town folk. This of course is just my 2 cents and my opinions...i'm not telling you to do anything, i'm merely giving my opinion. Also, i garentee that if you dropped just half of what your dad was giving you (i believe it was $30 grand?) into a rps13 with sr swap...you'd blast on any street camero in your town.

[Jim96SC2]

Congrats and good luck. If you want some good ideas on what to do, hit me up: [email protected].