Looking to start, SS or STS - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

DuffMan · 02-02-2003, 09:00 PM

I am trying to figure out which class i want to run in. SS would require me buying a set of race tires, and maybe some shocks, like AGX's or something.

STS i have some 225 summer tires on wheels that would do decent but the rest of the car will be pretty much stock. Would I need suspension to be competitive? Maybe GC or something like that.

I know the driver is 10x more important than the mods done to the car, and I intend to work on that.

But which class is easiest to start out in.

HippoSleek · 02-03-2003, 07:29 AM

There are two answers to this. Easiest can be the one in which you are most likely to earn points in regionally and/or win nationally or Easiest can be the easiest to learn in. I'm guess you mean learning.

If you are just starting out, don't do a class that requires race rubber. That is the WORST way to learn about your can and control. STS is a good compromise since street tires are allowed. Also, since most people have done SOMETHING to their car, it's easy to meet the reqs.

Of course, I don't follow my own advice... When I take out the 240, I usually run in stock w/ street tires. Since I am not alone on streets, I usually finish mid-pack, but a few seconds off the leaders.

Basically, if you want to go out and have fun, just do it. Don't worry about classing until you are looking for the easiest trophy.

hurleyboi514 · 02-03-2003, 07:34 PM

why would u be in SS with a 240? you should be in GS for stock class, and DSP for street prepared. i dunno about STS, i dunno the rules for that class... im running in DSP. there are alot of mods you can perform in DSP, so thats what im gonna stick with. ill probably build this car around it. then, get another car for a street / cool fast car...

DuffMan · 02-04-2003, 02:47 AM

I don't think I understand the SCCA classes to well. I went to their website and basicly, it sucks in terms of information.

I thought (I could be totally wrong here) that SS consisted of different classes based on the vehicle, and that GS and the rest of them were a subset of SS.

HippoSleek · 02-04-2003, 07:10 AM

Nope. SS = super stock. FAST cars. Below that are AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS... and I think that's it. Some of them aren't really popular (CS, FS) some are. And I thought the 240 was moved to ES last year? (I've gotten that confused a couple times last year, leading to registration nightmares

).

Go to the moutons site (search yahoo for moutons and scca) and there is a basic listing of the classes. Gererally _S = (stock) stock except w/ shocks, tires, and brake pads open; STS (street touring street tire) = springs/shocks, limited wheels, street tires, I/H/E; _SP (Street Prepared) = STS + internal engine mods, iirc brakes open, iirc tires open - these cars get fast and $$$; _M (Mod) = SP rules + motor swaps; _P (prepared) = about anything goes w/n certain weight and power limits. I think that's the basics, but the moutons site will be better.

AKADriver · 02-04-2003, 08:27 AM

Modified is more 'anything goes' than Prepared... I believe Prepared still requires factory head and block castings with certain exceptions. Prepared cars are still sedan-based, also (many Modified class cars are open wheel racers).

But noone here is going to be running in those classes so I'm not sure why I bothered to type that... A 240SX has its best hope of competing in STS or DSP.

Street Prepared doesn't really allow internal mods, either, but beyond STS it does allow modifying the intake tract up to the head ports. Of course since noone makes aftermarket intake manifolds for the KA, and there isn't much if any power to be seen by adding one to an internally stock engine anyway...

HippoSleek · 02-04-2003, 09:16 AM

Yeah - AKA's generally right - but Moutons took down the mod and prepared rules.

I keep getting Mod and Street Mod mixed up and then I forget where to slot Prepared and street prepared. The new SM classes are a major source of confusion for me. But he's right: Prepared is an anything goes full bodied car class and Mod is pretty much anything goes. Street prepared is a step up from STS w/ open tire/wheels and more. An SP engine MAY be modded to IT rules, which include internal mods (overbore, heads) which is $$$ and ++hp. iirc, street mod is street prepared for motor swap cars.

DuffMan · 02-04-2003, 01:20 PM

Ok, I see. I thought SS stood for "showroom stock" or something like that. I think I will run STS on stock suspension with my 225 width tires for now, and maybe move onto G-stock and buy race rubber for stock wheels if I feel I want to be more competitive.

Thanks for the help guys.

Also, what about this midwestern council of sports cars thing tnord races in. Do they have stuff near chicago?

*LanceS13* · 02-04-2003, 01:24 PM

I think the 240 used to be in ES, and has since moved to GS. It was fairly competitive in ES 2 years ago, but cars are always getting reclassed so I don't even know what they're running against now.
STS is the best bang for the buck class in the SCCA. Preparation is fairly cheap as far as motorsports go and there's plenty of competition to push you to your limits. The well-driven, well-prepped 240 is a mid-packer in a tough crowd...front-runner in a small pond. Max tire/wheel width is 225/7.5", and they have to have a tread rating of 140 or better. Shocks/springs are pretty much unlimited and coilovers are allowed, and you can use PolyU bushings. I/H/E, accessory pulleys, and ecu upgrades are allowed engine-wise. Slotted/drilled rotors of same size are allowed and any pads you like. Any seats and steering wheel (as long as you don't have airbags) you want. If you want bigger brakes,245/8" tires and wheels, and a non-factory LSD, there's also STX.
DSP is the next step up. I'd say the 240 is a mid-packer at best. Wheels and tires are unlimited except for being DOT approved. Clutch/flywheel is free. You can't do anything appreciable to the internals. You can do a mild p&p. Bye, bye emissions stuff. A few other things you can do.
Next is SM. This is where the big boys play...pretty much anything goes as long as you keep it street legal. That doesn't neccessarily mean it has to pass emissions. Motors swaps of the same make are game (Infiniti/Nissan)...and you can do whatever you want to it after that. Suspension is pretty much unlimited. Body work may include fender flares to run gigantic wheel/tire setups (DOT approved). Hoods are unlimited. Drivetrain is unlimited...carbon fiber driveshafts included. Brakes are unlimited. Backseats can be removed. I can see a 240 being pretty competitive here...but it would take $$$.

DuffMan · 02-04-2003, 02:02 PM

Putting a junkyard VLSD in the car would be legal for STS right, because certain versions of the car had it?

*LanceS13* · 02-04-2003, 03:28 PM

If it ever came in a 240SX, it's legal in STS. Updates/Backdates are fair game. Technically, a VLSD out of, say, a J30 or whatever else has them wouldn't be legal...but as long as the final ratios are the same, it'd be hard to prove, and most wouldn't protest it anyway.

KiDyNomiTe · 02-04-2003, 09:11 PM

Here I am under the impression that Coilovers were not legal in STS.

Would getting a Z Brake upgrade and some bigger tires be worth switching from STX to STS?

And what size are FD wheels?

DuffMan · 02-05-2003, 01:54 AM

I found this page that gives some info about classes. Not sure if it's 100% correct or not, but it still seems helpfull.
http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead/prepcompare.htm

TheSparo · 02-05-2003, 07:33 PM

wut class would u be in if u had an SR?

*LanceS13* · 02-06-2003, 07:10 AM

SM (Street Mod)

2FortyessX · 02-19-2003, 07:55 PM

i was going to read every post, but danm its too danm confusing right now..............

*LanceS13* · 02-20-2003, 10:36 AM

What's confusing about it? If you want something clarified just ask. You can also contact the SCCA and order a rulebook.

Dave · 02-20-2003, 05:27 PM

STS is a good fun class for the 240sx, don't expect to win though. You will be competitive..., but not enough to win. There are some exceptions a 240 won a Regional Champship down in TX and I think another in the north east. I haven't placed better than 4th (we ususally have 30 in the class), I consider myself a good driver, but the 240 is heavy compared to the Civic I run against and I have 2 less LSDs than the 2.5RSs. I'd recommend good tires either Falken Azenis or BFG KDs.

There is a possibility of the 240 in STX but I doubt a LSD and 245 tires would make up the low HP numbers compared to the rest of the class. I could see a 240 doing ok in DSP. For myself I'm kinda scared to run DSP, I saw one of our local hotshoe's (David Fauth 4 time nat'l champ?) BMW 328is raise a FRONT tire through a turnaround, scary how much torque that car has. He placed 2nd in DSP @ Nat'ls in Topeka...

David J.
Colorado Region STS

*LanceS13* · 02-21-2003, 12:40 PM

Like I said, in a small pond the 240SX can be the big fish in STS. I won the '02 MS Region PAX Championship, but we're definitely a small pond. I think it has a better chance in STS than in DSP. Takao Inoue probably has the best-prepared DSP 240SX and he's a mid-packer at Nationals. Nobody's taken one to Nats in STS yet. I would really like to see how a well-driven, fully-STS-prepped 240 would do there.

Hurleyboi on the boards runs DSP...check this pic out.
http://www.zilvia.net/f/attachment.php?s=&postid=199911
RWD, stiff suspension, and sticky tires will do that.

02-02-2003, 09:00 PM	#1
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Looking to start, SS or STS I am trying to figure out which class i want to run in. SS would require me buying a set of race tires, and maybe some shocks, like AGX's or something. STS i have some 225 summer tires on wheels that would do decent but the rest of the car will be pretty much stock. Would I need suspension to be competitive? Maybe GC or something like that. I know the driver is 10x more important than the mods done to the car, and I intend to work on that. But which class is easiest to start out in.

02-03-2003, 07:34 PM	#3
hurleyboi514 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Fort Posts: 905 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	why would u be in SS with a 240? you should be in GS for stock class, and DSP for street prepared. i dunno about STS, i dunno the rules for that class... im running in DSP. there are alot of mods you can perform in DSP, so thats what im gonna stick with. ill probably build this car around it. then, get another car for a street / cool fast car... __________________ HighTach Motorsports

02-04-2003, 01:24 PM	#9
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I think the 240 used to be in ES, and has since moved to GS. It was fairly competitive in ES 2 years ago, but cars are always getting reclassed so I don't even know what they're running against now. STS is the best bang for the buck class in the SCCA. Preparation is fairly cheap as far as motorsports go and there's plenty of competition to push you to your limits. The well-driven, well-prepped 240 is a mid-packer in a tough crowd...front-runner in a small pond. Max tire/wheel width is 225/7.5", and they have to have a tread rating of 140 or better. Shocks/springs are pretty much unlimited and coilovers are allowed, and you can use PolyU bushings. I/H/E, accessory pulleys, and ecu upgrades are allowed engine-wise. Slotted/drilled rotors of same size are allowed and any pads you like. Any seats and steering wheel (as long as you don't have airbags) you want. If you want bigger brakes,245/8" tires and wheels, and a non-factory LSD, there's also STX. DSP is the next step up. I'd say the 240 is a mid-packer at best. Wheels and tires are unlimited except for being DOT approved. Clutch/flywheel is free. You can't do anything appreciable to the internals. You can do a mild p&p. Bye, bye emissions stuff. A few other things you can do. Next is SM. This is where the big boys play...pretty much anything goes as long as you keep it street legal. That doesn't neccessarily mean it has to pass emissions. Motors swaps of the same make are game (Infiniti/Nissan)...and you can do whatever you want to it after that. Suspension is pretty much unlimited. Body work may include fender flares to run gigantic wheel/tire setups (DOT approved). Hoods are unlimited. Drivetrain is unlimited...carbon fiber driveshafts included. Brakes are unlimited. Backseats can be removed. I can see a 240 being pretty competitive here...but it would take $$$. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

02-04-2003, 03:28 PM	#11
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If it ever came in a 240SX, it's legal in STS. Updates/Backdates are fair game. Technically, a VLSD out of, say, a J30 or whatever else has them wouldn't be legal...but as long as the final ratios are the same, it'd be hard to prove, and most wouldn't protest it anyway. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

02-04-2003, 09:11 PM	#12
KiDyNomiTe Post Whore! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Chicago Age: 38 Posts: 6,296 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: KiDyNomiTe Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Here I am under the impression that Coilovers were not legal in STS. Would getting a Z Brake upgrade and some bigger tires be worth switching from STX to STS? And what size are FD wheels? __________________ PROCEED Grip Gambler

02-03-2003, 07:29 AM	#2
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	There are two answers to this. Easiest can be the one in which you are most likely to earn points in regionally and/or win nationally or Easiest can be the easiest to learn in. I'm guess you mean learning. If you are just starting out, don't do a class that requires race rubber. That is the WORST way to learn about your can and control. STS is a good compromise since street tires are allowed. Also, since most people have done SOMETHING to their car, it's easy to meet the reqs. Of course, I don't follow my own advice... When I take out the 240, I usually run in stock w/ street tires. Since I am not alone on streets, I usually finish mid-pack, but a few seconds off the leaders. Basically, if you want to go out and have fun, just do it. Don't worry about classing until you are looking for the easiest trophy.

02-04-2003, 02:47 AM	#4
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I don't think I understand the SCCA classes to well. I went to their website and basicly, it sucks in terms of information. I thought (I could be totally wrong here) that SS consisted of different classes based on the vehicle, and that GS and the rest of them were a subset of SS.

02-04-2003, 07:10 AM	#5
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Nope. SS = super stock. FAST cars. Below that are AS, BS, CS, DS, ES, FS, GS, HS... and I think that's it. Some of them aren't really popular (CS, FS) some are. And I thought the 240 was moved to ES last year? (I've gotten that confused a couple times last year, leading to registration nightmares ). Go to the moutons site (search yahoo for moutons and scca) and there is a basic listing of the classes. Gererally _S = (stock) stock except w/ shocks, tires, and brake pads open; STS (street touring street tire) = springs/shocks, limited wheels, street tires, I/H/E; _SP (Street Prepared) = STS + internal engine mods, iirc brakes open, iirc tires open - these cars get fast and $$$; _M (Mod) = SP rules + motor swaps; _P (prepared) = about anything goes w/n certain weight and power limits. I think that's the basics, but the moutons site will be better.

02-04-2003, 08:27 AM	#6
AKADriver Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 43 Posts: 3,517 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Modified is more 'anything goes' than Prepared... I believe Prepared still requires factory head and block castings with certain exceptions. Prepared cars are still sedan-based, also (many Modified class cars are open wheel racers). But noone here is going to be running in those classes so I'm not sure why I bothered to type that... A 240SX has its best hope of competing in STS or DSP. Street Prepared doesn't really allow internal mods, either, but beyond STS it does allow modifying the intake tract up to the head ports. Of course since noone makes aftermarket intake manifolds for the KA, and there isn't much if any power to be seen by adding one to an internally stock engine anyway...

02-04-2003, 09:16 AM	#7
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah - AKA's generally right - but Moutons took down the mod and prepared rules. I keep getting Mod and Street Mod mixed up and then I forget where to slot Prepared and street prepared. The new SM classes are a major source of confusion for me. But he's right: Prepared is an anything goes full bodied car class and Mod is pretty much anything goes. Street prepared is a step up from STS w/ open tire/wheels and more. An SP engine MAY be modded to IT rules, which include internal mods (overbore, heads) which is $$$ and ++hp. iirc, street mod is street prepared for motor swap cars.

02-04-2003, 01:20 PM	#8
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Ok, I see. I thought SS stood for "showroom stock" or something like that. I think I will run STS on stock suspension with my 225 width tires for now, and maybe move onto G-stock and buy race rubber for stock wheels if I feel I want to be more competitive. Thanks for the help guys. Also, what about this midwestern council of sports cars thing tnord races in. Do they have stuff near chicago?

02-04-2003, 02:02 PM	#10
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Putting a junkyard VLSD in the car would be legal for STS right, because certain versions of the car had it?

02-05-2003, 01:54 AM	#13
DuffMan Post Whore! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in a cardboard box Posts: 2,517 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I found this page that gives some info about classes. Not sure if it's 100% correct or not, but it still seems helpfull. http://www.sff.net/people/dburkhead/prepcompare.htm

02-05-2003, 07:33 PM	#14
TheSparo Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Athens/Chattanooga/ Cookeville/Morristown, TN Age: 39 Posts: 1,141 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	wut class would u be in if u had an SR?

02-06-2003, 07:10 AM	#15
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	SM (Street Mod) __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

02-19-2003, 07:55 PM	#16
2FortyessX Leaky Injector Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: bay area CA Posts: 144 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i was going to read every post, but danm its too danm confusing right now..............

02-20-2003, 10:36 AM	#17
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	What's confusing about it? If you want something clarified just ask. You can also contact the SCCA and order a rulebook. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE

02-20-2003, 05:27 PM	#18
Dave Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 12 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	240sx in STS STS is a good fun class for the 240sx, don't expect to win though. You will be competitive..., but not enough to win. There are some exceptions a 240 won a Regional Champship down in TX and I think another in the north east. I haven't placed better than 4th (we ususally have 30 in the class), I consider myself a good driver, but the 240 is heavy compared to the Civic I run against and I have 2 less LSDs than the 2.5RSs. I'd recommend good tires either Falken Azenis or BFG KDs. There is a possibility of the 240 in STX but I doubt a LSD and 245 tires would make up the low HP numbers compared to the rest of the class. I could see a 240 doing ok in DSP. For myself I'm kinda scared to run DSP, I saw one of our local hotshoe's (David Fauth 4 time nat'l champ?) BMW 328is raise a FRONT tire through a turnaround, scary how much torque that car has. He placed 2nd in DSP @ Nat'ls in Topeka... David J. Colorado Region STS

02-21-2003, 12:40 PM	#19
LanceS13 AutoX Junkie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: MS Age: 43 Posts: 2,044 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Like I said, in a small pond the 240SX can be the big fish in STS. I won the '02 MS Region PAX Championship, but we're definitely a small pond. I think it has a better chance in STS than in DSP. Takao Inoue probably has the best-prepared DSP 240SX and he's a mid-packer at Nationals. Nobody's taken one to Nats in STS yet. I would really like to see how a well-driven, fully-STS-prepped 240 would do there. Hurleyboi on the boards runs DSP...check this pic out. http://www.zilvia.net/f/attachment.php?s=&postid=199911 RWD, stiff suspension, and sticky tires will do that. __________________ 1992 240SX Fastback #47 DSP MS SCCA RX-7 ITS Project FOR SALE