Legality of SR's in california running E85.

[delphis]

I did some searching around but couldn't find anything on the specific topic that actually went in depth about the switch from gasoline to e85 to become "an alternative fuel vehicle". I don't normally daily my 240 just drive it once a week to keep it running smooth, but a chp pulled me over for modified exhaust and told me "no exhaust that is louder than stock was legal" and asked me to pop my hood.

So I did some research and there are people running ka's, sr's and rb's on e85 but couldn't find anyone that had done this in california, so any help on this would be greatly appreciated by someone who has inquired about this to a state ref or is more versed in smog laws and running the sr with e85 if it is approved by the state ref or not.

[palmdale_mob]

I also and interested in this
I've heard stories of people switching to alternative fuel getting the sticker then going back to gasoline, and these people were running KA-T's, SR's all this stuff
Pretty much if the cop would pop their hood they got the sticker and they couldn't do nothing about it even if there was crazy huge turbo's and whatnot

[DreamN]

Sounds too good to be true.

[delphis]

well there are systems that you can run on both, but I am not exactally sure how that works.

240SX E85 Conversion - Texas Nissans

this guy here was talking about having a dip switch on his rom tune so that he can switch MAPs with the flip of a switch so if he needs to he can fill up on gas but for emissions testing just switches it back to the e85 setting.

I am going to call the ref number and then go and talk to the ref's and see what they say about it.

[deukalionS14]

damn dude that would be crazy. i just got my out of states plates the other day!! yay for me!!

[blasting_speed]

Sunshine To Dollars by by Steven

How does this sound to you guys???

[deukalionS14]

what the heck lol...damn...that would be nice. i mean race gas all day everyday?! shooooot blastin speed, do we see an expirament coming on?

[delphis]

well I contacted some people and there are carb legal e85 kits just have to go to the ref station and ask them about specific motors.

[Paul2x]

Where can you even get E85? Any pumps?

Or do you have to get barrels?

[Om1kron]

I still do not understand what you people do not comprehend about the sr20det being an illegal motor to have. It doesn't matter if the fucking runs off of sunshine and kisses, it's illegal.

Hey what if pot stopped global warming, do you think the cops are going to be like "well fucking spark that shit up hippie, lets make the world green."

Hey cocaine, stops wars and induces world peace. Obama obviously would pass a deal and stimulate the economy with drug runners right? because we're all about world peace and no war.

NO.

I hope my explination has helped you better understand why this is stupid. Pay your ref ticket instead of spending more money for no reason.

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by delphis

this guy here was talking about having a dip switch on his rom tune so that he can switch MAPs with the flip of a switch so if he needs to he can fill up on gas but for emissions testing just switches it back to the e85 setting.

OMFG, that is so old...hell Hondas have been able to do that for i cant remember howlong, shit i knew people who could do that back in 2000, they'ed go from 86 to 101 octane by flipping a switch on the ecu, mind you i know ur sayin goung from e 85 to gas, but still the same shit, it tunes the ecu for said type of fuel...

Originally Posted by DreamN

Sounds too good to be true.

because it is...

Originally Posted by delphis

well I contacted some people and there are carb legal e85 kits just have to go to the ref station and ask them about specific motors.

is the SR20DET a U.S. produced motor? NO
Was it ever sold in a car here in the US? NO
did it come from a 30+ yr old chassis? NO

that alone disqualifies it from being ''legal'', wether it run on E85 or u have the cleanest running SR, it wont legally pass...

Originally Posted by Om1kron

I still do not understand what you people do not comprehend about the sr20det being an illegal motor to have. It doesn't matter if the fucking runs off of sunshine and kisses, it's illegal.

Hey what if pot stopped global warming, do you think the cops are going to be like "well fucking spark that shit up hippie, lets make the world green."

Hey cocaine, stops wars and induces world peace. Obama obviously would pass a deal and stimulate the economy with drug runners right? because we're all about world peace and no war.

NO.

I hope my explination has helped you better understand why this is stupid. Pay your ref ticket instead of spending more money for no reason.

THANK YOU

[delphis]

Have you directly talked to a state ref about this?

[mrflip69]

If you search for a guy who went by the name hazw8st , you'll see that he was able to legalize swaps through a loophole by doing this (alternative fuel vehicle). Not only smog exempt, but carb exempt too.

[GSXRJJordan]

Let us know what the ref says, I'm also interested in this - it's true that you would be CARB-exempt, but I'm guessing you'd have to pass the ref first.

[DALAZ_68]

im pretty sure it still would pass state ref, carb legal or not...unless u have state ref hook up

[S14DB]

Certification of Alternative Fuel Retrofit Systems
California regulations prohibit the conversion of emission-controlled vehicles with retrofit systems to operate on an alternative fuel, such as natural gas, propane, or ethanol, in lieu of the original gasoline or diesel fuel unless the retrofit systems have been evaluated and certified by the Air Resources Board (ARB). The certification of an alternative fuel retrofit system must be obtained by its manufacturer. Certification is issued by ARB once the manufacturer demonstrates compliance with the emission, warranty, and durability requirements. A manufacturer is defined as a person who manufactures or assembles an alternative fuel retrofit system for sale in California. An individual who wishes to convert a vehicle for personal use does not fall under this definition and cannot certify a retrofit system in California.

Individuals interested in converting their vehicles to operate on an alternative fuel must ensure that the alternative fuel retrofit systems used for their vehicles have been certified by ARB. The list of certified retrofit systems for various vehicle makes and models are available online. You may view a list of certified retrofit systems for 1994 and newer model year vehicles (Acrobat - 31K), or for 1993 and older vehicles (Acrobat - 1.50M).

View the procedures for certifying retrofit systems designed to convert vehicles to operate on natural gas, propane, or ethanol fuel at (Acrobat - 1.95M). To obtain information on certification requirements for retrofit systems using other alternative fuels such as hydrogen, plug-in hybrids, biodiesel, please contact Rose Castro at (626) 575-6848, or via email at [email protected].

Subject Top Page: Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts Regulations

[DALAZ_68]

once again proves why he's a mod...

[Om1kron]

no he once again proves why people are dumbasses, asking dumb ass questions.

[delphis]

^that doesn't state that it is illegal, it just states that there are certain models, typoes of systems and ARB certified version of conversion systems.

I can't believe how some people on here are just so down on everything when they didn't even read the post/pdf.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by delphis

^that doesn't state that it is illegal, it just states that there are certain models, typoes of systems and ARB certified version of conversion systems.

I can't believe how some people on here are just so down on everything when they didn't even read the post.

Its not so much down on everything. Its just you seem to be somewhat new here and this subject has been covered ad infinitum that's all.

Let me spell it out for you. If the system is not certified by CARB with a E.O. number and a sticker that states that its not legal. Period. You will still get a ref ticket and you will still have to go to the referee to show you changed everything back.

The statue section S14DB quoted explains that. In other words your screwed.


P.S. its not like your talking revelation here. Like I said earlier well all have explored the possibilities long before you were even on this forum.

Now have a nice day and don't go away all butt hurt, just because your great idea is not new and has been explored.

[DALAZ_68]

Originally Posted by delphis

^that doesn't state that it is illegal, it just states that there are certain models, typoes of systems and ARB certified version of conversion systems.

I can't believe how some people on here are just so down on everything when they didn't even read the post/pdf.

in ur new

ur in a forum that has been around for a pretty good while...this has been covvered, dont take it the wrong way, enthusiasm is great, but focus it right and search better... this has been covered b4.

[Absolutist24]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Certification of Alternative Fuel Retrofit Systems
California regulations prohibit the conversion of emission-controlled vehicles with retrofit systems to operate on an alternative fuel, such as natural gas, propane, or ethanol, in lieu of the original gasoline or diesel fuel unless the retrofit systems have been evaluated and certified by the Air Resources Board (ARB). The certification of an alternative fuel retrofit system must be obtained by its manufacturer. Certification is issued by ARB once the manufacturer demonstrates compliance with the emission, warranty, and durability requirements. A manufacturer is defined as a person who manufactures or assembles an alternative fuel retrofit system for sale in California. An individual who wishes to convert a vehicle for personal use does not fall under this definition and cannot certify a retrofit system in California.

Individuals interested in converting their vehicles to operate on an alternative fuel must ensure that the alternative fuel retrofit systems used for their vehicles have been certified by ARB. The list of certified retrofit systems for various vehicle makes and models are available online. You may view a list of certified retrofit systems for 1994 and newer model year vehicles (Acrobat - 31K), or for 1993 and older vehicles (Acrobat - 1.50M).

View the procedures for certifying retrofit systems designed to convert vehicles to operate on natural gas, propane, or ethanol fuel at (Acrobat - 1.95M). To obtain information on certification requirements for retrofit systems using other alternative fuels such as hydrogen, plug-in hybrids, biodiesel, please contact Rose Castro at (626) 575-6848, or via email at [email protected].

Subject Top Page: Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts Regulations

I believe there is a way to bypass this.

I suggest doing it with a Pre-1975 240sx.

WHAT?? Pre-1975 240sx!!??

Well, this is what I've heard from a friend of mine, and I have not confirmed this information yet, but it seems very plausible and logical in a sense. This info may be true or false, you can do the research!!

Okay, so you have an S13 or S14 USDM. Now, you have an old rusted 240Z sitting in your back yard doing nothing but collecting dirt and rust.

My friend says that it is Legal to conbine these two cars. He says that the requirement is that you will have to have at least 4 FEET of one car in the other car.

So he says one of the comming things people do if it works is swapping out a rear end (which is 4' long) and you can legally change your vehicle by using the desired title of the pre 1975 vehicle.

Example:

I can cut out 4' length of a floor pan off the 240z or 260z and weld it onto the bottom of my floor pan of my 240sx. I can then go to the DMV and file a JOINT or merge vehicle.

***This makes sense because what if you had 2 Parts cars and wanted to complete 1 car and junk the other...

So, If you can retrofit a Steering rack or rear end or 4' length off a pre 1975 vehicle,

****I also hear that a lot of ROCK Climbing Vehicles (Pre-runners, Jeeps and others) use this method as well to satisfy their HIGHLY modified Rock Crawlin' hill jumping high horsepower machines. You see these Trucks on the road all Lifted and not Smogg legal, but they use this method of "Pre1975 4 FEET fusion" to bypass the California smog requirements****

AGAIN, this information is not confirmed BUT it makes sense to me.

[soreballz]

^That's retarded, and doing something like that to a uni-body car makes no sense at all.

[delphis]

I am far from but hurt. I have actually been on this forum for a while, just don't post much, just fo more reading and info searching than anything else. I did search the forum and it hadn't seem to have been covered that is why I posted this. Far from a dumb ass question hence I searched and found nothing. There do seem to be some CARB legal e85 conversion kits, I am going to email the person from the posted link and see what they say and go talk to a ref when I get the free time to take it a step further.

I also have an SR20DE not a det. I do have a det in my garage that is ripped apart and awaiting a full rebuild.

I could register my car out of state in Oregon, but I figure why not try and play it by the books and possibly discover something that would benefit the entire community. Just another Ca 240 enthusiast that would love to not have to worry about getting popped again.

[ranger240]

just tack weld some old s30 floor pans/parts whatever underneath the s13 uni body if you really wanted to try this pre-75 b.s... i doubt the inspection would really dig into it too much.
haha how about temporary 240z overfenderzzzzzzzzzzz

[S14DB]

You can not convert the car yourself. You have to have a licensed shop do it. Your car has to be legal before the swap.

http://zilvia.net/f/search.php "Propane Conversion" A guy was doing it for a while on RB's and SR's. Solved the registration problem but then people started getting their hoods popped...

[GSXRJJordan]

Originally Posted by S14DB

Certification of Alternative Fuel Retrofit Systems
California regulations prohibit the conversion of emission-controlled vehicles with retrofit systems to operate on an alternative fuel, such as natural gas, propane, or ethanol, in lieu of the original gasoline or diesel fuel unless the retrofit systems have been evaluated and certified by the Air Resources Board (ARB). The certification of an alternative fuel retrofit system must be obtained by its manufacturer. Certification is issued by ARB once the manufacturer demonstrates compliance with the emission, warranty, and durability requirements. A manufacturer is defined as a person who manufactures or assembles an alternative fuel retrofit system for sale in California. An individual who wishes to convert a vehicle for personal use does not fall under this definition and cannot certify a retrofit system in California.

Individuals interested in converting their vehicles to operate on an alternative fuel must ensure that the alternative fuel retrofit systems used for their vehicles have been certified by ARB. The list of certified retrofit systems for various vehicle makes and models are available online. You may view a list of certified retrofit systems for 1994 and newer model year vehicles (Acrobat - 31K), or for 1993 and older vehicles (Acrobat - 1.50M).

View the procedures for certifying retrofit systems designed to convert vehicles to operate on natural gas, propane, or ethanol fuel at (Acrobat - 1.95M). To obtain information on certification requirements for retrofit systems using other alternative fuels such as hydrogen, plug-in hybrids, biodiesel, please contact Rose Castro at (626) 575-6848, or via email at [email protected].

Subject Top Page: Aftermarket, Performance and Add-On Parts Regulations

Nowhere in here does it say the vehicle has to be legal before the retrofit.

Nowhere in here does it say that you have to have a "licensed shop" perform the retrofit.

What it does say is that the retrofit system must be CARB approved, and that only the retrofit system manufacturer can get it approved (not individuals/end users).

I'm just wondering if the system has to be CARB approved for the specific application, or if there are "universal" retrofit systems that have been approved.

More research is necessary - this idea is not dead yet.

[S14DB]

Originally Posted by GSXRJJordan

Nowhere in here does it say the vehicle has to be legal before the retrofit.

Nowhere in here does it say that you have to have a "licensed shop" perform the retrofit.

What it does say is that the retrofit system must be CARB approved, and that only the retrofit system manufacturer can get it approved (not individuals/end users).

I'm just wondering if the system has to be CARB approved for the specific application, or if there are "universal" retrofit systems that have been approved.

More research is necessary - this idea is not dead yet.

Certification is issued by ARB once the manufacturer demonstrates compliance with the emission, warranty, and durability requirements. A manufacturer is defined as a person who manufactures or assembles an alternative fuel retrofit system for sale in California. An individual who wishes to convert a vehicle for personal use does not fall under this definition and cannot certify a retrofit system in California.


For the OP:
http://zilvia.net/f/chat/128678-lega...sr20-ka-t.html
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/132325...re-within.html

[handinpants]

running the sr20det is not going to fly with the state ref, period. 1975 or older cars its fine

[Avante]

soo..

does this mean i can't modify my motor to run on bald eagle heads and cute baby pandas?

that's a let down.

i was looking forward to that.

the hunting of my fuel would have been fun.