SR20DET - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

rubbersidedown · 10-24-2001, 08:44 AM

i've just recently started looking into the sr20det engine and i was wondering what the difference is between the red top and the black top. some one help me out?

jd90240sx · 10-24-2001, 08:49 AM

I believe the only difference is that the red top has 205hp and the black top motor has 210-215 with variable timing and a ball bearing turbo.

*drifterx* · 10-24-2001, 09:09 AM

the S15 black top has a 6 speed right?
the S14 is only a 5 speed?

*ca18guy* · 10-24-2001, 09:19 AM

s13 red top has 205 HP and no variable valve timing
s14 black top has 215 HP and has variable valve timing

IceTekGuy · 10-24-2001, 10:32 AM

black top rules, red top drools

S13Grl · 10-24-2001, 12:40 PM

Discussed in a forum before: Black-top SR20DET with Variable Valve Timing can actually be a bad thing: you can only tune it so far, the Valve Timing can keep up with a certian number of horses and no more than that or it will break. So, the red-top is actually a better thing. In my personal opinion, that is.

HippoSleek · 10-24-2001, 01:22 PM

*throws monkey wrench into discussion*

Don't forget that there are s13 black tops and s14 black tops.  s14 has vvt & better turbo & bigger injectors.  Same tq, more hp.  Grl is also right about the s13 being perferred by tuners b/c it is one less thing to break and the head is a freeer flowing design (notice bigger turbo and not much more power?).  

S13Grl · 10-24-2001, 02:12 PM

I always thought that S13s were red-tops and S14s are black tops.

TRM02 · 10-24-2001, 02:58 PM

the s13 did come in a red top and black top.  I belive that the hp was the same...someone correct me if I am wrong.

Olay180 · 10-24-2001, 04:48 PM

S13 Sivia's came with redtops. RPS13's (180SX) have a blacktop. Same hp and torque rating.  I know because I have a blacktop from a 94 180SX. S14 and S15 Silvia's have a blacktop, with a slope towards the back of the motor. S14 =215 hp, S15 =250? Same torque. Someone correct me if im wrong.

HippoSleek · 10-24-2001, 04:56 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Olay180 on 2:48 pm on Oct. 24, 2001
S13 Sivia's came with redtops. RPS13's (180SX) have a blacktop. Same hp and torque rating. I know because I have a blacktop from a 94 180SX. S14 and S15 Silvia's have a blacktop, with a slope towards the back of the motor. S14 =215 hp, S15 =250? Same torque. Someone correct me if im wrong.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Yup - the s13 black top motor was built from (I think) about 1993-98 (w/ the production of RPS13 a/k/a 180sx).  I always heard that hp was 220 for all non-s14/15 motors... but that ps -> hp conversion seems to make it different.  Anyways, when buying, you'll find the s13 black tops are a bit more b/c they are more likely to have been made w/n the last 10 years!

BoostDynamics · 10-24-2001, 05:00 PM

Actually I think the S13 black top didn't come in the 180's until 94, before that they were all red tops... only difference between the S13 red and black tops though are the fact that the black tops are liable to have less mileage because the engines are newer.

BadMoJo · 10-24-2001, 05:29 PM

..so, what your sayin is that the S13 Black Top is the way to go? and the S13 Black Top does NOT have VVT? but the S14 Black Top does? and how do ya know if its a Black Top from an S13 not an S14? Or am I all confused...?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

BoostDynamics · 10-24-2001, 06:07 PM

Actually the black top is just a personal preference as far as looks (valve cover.. whoopty) and mileage since those are the only differences really, the S13 black top does not have the VVT, that didn't come into play until the S14 black top was released.  You can tell just by looking at the engine itself whether or not it's from an S13 or S14, the S14 has a big lump in the front of the valve cover where the VVT is and I actually think it says VVT on the cover doesn't it?  or am I mistaken?

nguyen · 10-24-2001, 06:44 PM

just to clear thing up abit, they all comes with 370cc injector up till the s15 sr20det. the s13 red top has T25 for their turbos, the black tops comes with T28 with 215hp. the black top with vvtc has 220hp. not sure what size turbo or injectors that comes in the s15 sr20det.

S13Grl · 10-24-2001, 11:13 PM

So in a way, i was right. Not counting the 180SX, that is.

burgy240 · 10-25-2001, 01:13 AM

Whats the deal with the s15 sr20's then?
Is the s13 still better than the s15?

(Edited by burgy240 at 1:14 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

matic 240sx · 10-25-2001, 04:27 AM

yea i really want to know what the deal is with the s15 motor i have a magizine with a 240sx with one in it... but it doesn't say what the stock HP is or anything...

TRM02 · 10-25-2001, 08:30 AM

The s15 motor is nice and all but..From what I have heard the tranny is weaker then the s14 tranny. the only good thing I see about getting a s15 motor and tranny is that its get a 6-speed so you can drive in a higher gear to save gas but thats it. I am sure thats all nissan did to the motor is better turbo or even a bigger one and better intake manifold maybe took out some bends in the exhaust to free that up to get more hp out of the motor. Again someone correct me if I am wrong.

BoostDynamics · 10-25-2001, 09:29 AM

Actually the S15 engine is rather nice, but it really isn't worth all that extra money, especially because when you start really tuning them you have to remove the stuff that makes it nice.  You can go pick up brand new 6 speed tranny's in Japan cheap off of those because all the tuners rip them off right away to put a 5 speed on.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

HippoSleek · 10-25-2001, 12:33 PM

Actually, I'm thinking more and more about getting an s14 or s15 SR, even though they aren't worth the money.  The newness factor is huge, as I really don't want to rebuild the bottom end of my motor, but don't want something that's ready to let loose either.  If your end goal is 250 whp, I think that the s15 is a good buy.  With it, you can keep the stock turbo and injectors, add FMIC, BC, BOV, and exhaust and there you go.  The s14 is trickier - but I think you can do it w/ the stock turbo too.  The s13 problem is that the turbo is so small, not to mention that the engine is likely to be at least 7 years old (red tops).  If I get one of those, I know I am going to wind up rebuilding it before it goes in... ugh!  I guess in short, the question of whether the s13, 14, or 15 is the best motor all depends on your goals and what you are willing to undertake.  (welcome to my internal strife <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>)

10-24-2001, 08:44 AM	#1
rubbersidedown Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 343 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i've just recently started looking into the sr20det engine and i was wondering what the difference is between the red top and the black top. some one help me out?

10-24-2001, 08:49 AM	#2
jd90240sx Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 105 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I believe the only difference is that the red top has 205hp and the black top motor has 210-215 with variable timing and a ball bearing turbo.

10-24-2001, 09:09 AM	#3
drifterx Premium Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: boston, ma Age: 44 Posts: 1,533 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the S15 black top has a 6 speed right? the S14 is only a 5 speed?

10-24-2001, 09:19 AM	#4
ca18guy Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Clearwater FL Age: 42 Posts: 3,226 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: ca18guy Feedback Score: 0 reviews	s13 red top has 205 HP and no variable valve timing s14 black top has 215 HP and has variable valve timing

10-24-2001, 10:32 AM	#5
IceTekGuy Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 362 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	black top rules, red top drools

10-24-2001, 12:40 PM	#6
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Discussed in a forum before: Black-top SR20DET with Variable Valve Timing can actually be a bad thing: you can only tune it so far, the Valve Timing can keep up with a certian number of horses and no more than that or it will break. So, the red-top is actually a better thing. In my personal opinion, that is.

10-24-2001, 01:22 PM	#7
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	throws monkey wrench into discussion Don't forget that there are s13 black tops and s14 black tops.  s14 has vvt & better turbo & bigger injectors.  Same tq, more hp.  Grl is also right about the s13 being perferred by tuners b/c it is one less thing to break and the head is a freeer flowing design (notice bigger turbo and not much more power?).

10-24-2001, 02:12 PM	#8
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I always thought that S13s were red-tops and S14s are black tops.

10-24-2001, 02:58 PM	#9
TRM02 Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 166 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	the s13 did come in a red top and black top.  I belive that the hp was the same...someone correct me if I am wrong.

10-24-2001, 04:48 PM	#10
Olay180 Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland, MI Age: 43 Posts: 116 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	S13 Sivia's came with redtops. RPS13's (180SX) have a blacktop. Same hp and torque rating.  I know because I have a blacktop from a 94 180SX. S14 and S15 Silvia's have a blacktop, with a slope towards the back of the motor. S14 =215 hp, S15 =250? Same torque. Someone correct me if im wrong.

10-24-2001, 04:56 PM	#11
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Olay180 on 2:48 pm on Oct. 24, 2001 S13 Sivia's came with redtops. RPS13's (180SX) have a blacktop. Same hp and torque rating. I know because I have a blacktop from a 94 180SX. S14 and S15 Silvia's have a blacktop, with a slope towards the back of the motor. S14 =215 hp, S15 =250? Same torque. Someone correct me if im wrong.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'> Yup - the s13 black top motor was built from (I think) about 1993-98 (w/ the production of RPS13 a/k/a 180sx).  I always heard that hp was 220 for all non-s14/15 motors... but that ps -> hp conversion seems to make it different.  Anyways, when buying, you'll find the s13 black tops are a bit more b/c they are more likely to have been made w/n the last 10 years!

10-24-2001, 05:00 PM	#12
BoostDynamics Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 79 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Actually I think the S13 black top didn't come in the 180's until 94, before that they were all red tops... only difference between the S13 red and black tops though are the fact that the black tops are liable to have less mileage because the engines are newer.

10-24-2001, 05:29 PM	#13
BadMoJo Nissanaholic! Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo, Ca Age: 43 Posts: 1,931 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	..so, what your sayin is that the S13 Black Top is the way to go? and the S13 Black Top does NOT have VVT? but the S14 Black Top does? and how do ya know if its a Black Top from an S13 not an S14? Or am I all confused...?<img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('>

10-24-2001, 06:07 PM	#14
BoostDynamics Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 79 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Actually the black top is just a personal preference as far as looks (valve cover.. whoopty) and mileage since those are the only differences really, the S13 black top does not have the VVT, that didn't come into play until the S14 black top was released.  You can tell just by looking at the engine itself whether or not it's from an S13 or S14, the S14 has a big lump in the front of the valve cover where the VVT is and I actually think it says VVT on the cover doesn't it?  or am I mistaken?

10-24-2001, 06:44 PM	#15
nguyen Leaky Injector Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 72 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	just to clear thing up abit, they all comes with 370cc injector up till the s15 sr20det. the s13 red top has T25 for their turbos, the black tops comes with T28 with 215hp. the black top with vvtc has 220hp. not sure what size turbo or injectors that comes in the s15 sr20det.

10-24-2001, 11:13 PM	#16
S13Grl Married to the Mob Join Date: Dec 2000 Age: 44 Posts: 3,670 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	So in a way, i was right. Not counting the 180SX, that is.

10-25-2001, 01:13 AM	#17
burgy240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Tampa Age: 49 Posts: 2,151 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	Whats the deal with the s15 sr20's then? Is the s13 still better than the s15? (Edited by burgy240 at 1:14 am on Oct. 25, 2001)

10-25-2001, 04:27 AM	#18
matic 240sx Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: las vegas Age: 42 Posts: 798 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: matic 240sx Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yea i really want to know what the deal is with the s15 motor i have a magizine with a 240sx with one in it... but it doesn't say what the stock HP is or anything...

10-25-2001, 08:30 AM	#19
TRM02 Zilvia Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 166 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The s15 motor is nice and all but..From what I have heard the tranny is weaker then the s14 tranny. the only good thing I see about getting a s15 motor and tranny is that its get a 6-speed so you can drive in a higher gear to save gas but thats it. I am sure thats all nissan did to the motor is better turbo or even a bigger one and better intake manifold maybe took out some bends in the exhaust to free that up to get more hp out of the motor. Again someone correct me if I am wrong.

10-25-2001, 09:29 AM	#20
BoostDynamics Leaky Injector Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 79 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Actually the S15 engine is rather nice, but it really isn't worth all that extra money, especially because when you start really tuning them you have to remove the stuff that makes it nice.  You can go pick up brand new 6 speed tranny's in Japan cheap off of those because all the tuners rip them off right away to put a 5 speed on.  <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

10-25-2001, 12:33 PM	#21
HippoSleek Nissanaholic! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: elsewhere Posts: 2,081 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Actually, I'm thinking more and more about getting an s14 or s15 SR, even though they aren't worth the money.  The newness factor is huge, as I really don't want to rebuild the bottom end of my motor, but don't want something that's ready to let loose either.  If your end goal is 250 whp, I think that the s15 is a good buy.  With it, you can keep the stock turbo and injectors, add FMIC, BC, BOV, and exhaust and there you go.  The s14 is trickier - but I think you can do it w/ the stock turbo too.  The s13 problem is that the turbo is so small, not to mention that the engine is likely to be at least 7 years old (red tops).  If I get one of those, I know I am going to wind up rebuilding it before it goes in... ugh!  I guess in short, the question of whether the s13, 14, or 15 is the best motor all depends on your goals and what you are willing to undertake.  (welcome to my internal strife <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>)