drifting a vert

[georgesal]

i recently aquired a vert to relpace my stolen coupe and i was wondering if there will be an issue with tracking it. Are there any special rules that a convertible has to follow. i did a quick search and found nothing. thanks for your time guys.

[ThatGuy]

Get a good cage.

Not only because there is no top on the car, but because 'Verts are over flexy.

Don't know if it's a "Rule", but it is a good idea.

[KA-T_240]

^what he said. Make sure you are safe in the car. and then do the other basics for drifting.

[azndoc]

No you can't drift verts.

If you look inside the glove compartment box there's a booklet hidden in the upper right hand corner which states that.

Duh....

I can't believe you didn't know.

[brokeAs240sx]

I don't know if they require roll bars for drift days (practices), but if you are doing any track events, drifting @ horsethief, etc, you will need one.

Here's one that will work for basically all events requiring 4-pt roll bar:

DavisFAb S13 240sx Convertible Roll Bar Kit

^ The description & pics are old. The kit is now TIG welded (in picture it is MIG welded) & the base plates are cut better.

In my car - most recent pic I have:

[georgesal]

Originally Posted by brokeAs240sx

I don't know if they require roll bars for drift days (practices), but if you are doing any track events, drifting @ horsethief, etc, you will need one.

Here's one that will work for basically all events requiring 4-pt roll bar:

DavisFAb S13 240sx Convertible Roll Bar Kit

^ The description & pics are old. The kit is now TIG welded (in picture it is MIG welded) & the base plates are cut better.

In my car - most recent pic I have:

thanks i was just looking at your posting on nico. did that you feel a difference in the how the car felt before and after. was there less body roll,

[brokeAs240sx]

Significant difference felt in the rear half of the car. Made driving it before feel like spaghetti, haha.

Even before the roll bar, though, the vert is suprisingly stiff (during grip at least). I also autox'd an s13 coupe before this & have ridden in all sorts of s chassis setups; the vert feels just about as solid (especially w/ rollbar), just a lot heavier, hee hee.

I'll be attending the scca autocross this weekend @ Fontana if you'd like to ride along in the car. You can pm me. Otherwise, you may want to check out the drift day going on in El Toro - do the drift or grip if you want to test out your car.

[georgesal]

man i'd love to be there but i have to work. why can it be all play and no work.

[Sonic Motor]

you should get a rollcage for it if you wanna drift...

But you need at least a roll bar to run most courses!
You can come our events with just a roll bar

[unicoladron]

i know a few BMW roadster/verts had additional chassis bracing to increase chassis rigidity. the bracing was only included on these models, and not hardtops/coupes.

i never looked into it but did Nissan use a similar approach to reduce chassis flex due to the lack of a hardtop?

for more info on the BMW bracing...
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...RODUCT_ID=E36X

[brokeAs240sx]

there's a ton of extra bracing (not all the added weight of vert vs coupe/hatch is bad weight). There's an FSM picture floating around somewhere that shows all of it, but basically:

- front fender brace spot welded in
- area where 2 front seat bolts mounts to and door sills reinforced
- front of rear seat area reinforced
- rear strut towers have a metal box between them (like a giant welded in strut bar)
- the area below the car on the frame rails are reinforced (front near radiator support & area where you normally put jack stands)

There's a few more spots too, but those are the ones off the top of my head.

[brokeAs240sx]

* as a side note, I don't think we can really compare a 240sx vert vs coupe to a BMW vert vs coupe.

The reason is I believe the BMW verts were built as verts from the beginning and had the additional bracing from the factory.

The 240sx vert was basically 240sx coupe shells w/ bracing added on by ASC (think that is what it's called) afterward.

[S13Boosts]

i dont see why you cant?

[drftwerks]

all verts are doomed to fail, case they are not the one ton garage vert (even if it never gets finished)

[johngriff]

Originally Posted by drftwerks

all verts are doomed to fail, case they are not the one ton garage vert (even if it never gets finished)

huh? verts are gangster...


george............

[Wiisass]

I'm a big fan of verts, after I did a cage in one, I really wanted to find one for myself to build.



Hopefully someday I'll have one. But until then I'll live my vert dreams through that car. It should be coming back soon for gussets. Gussets are key with the vert, even with the full cage, the front of the car still isn't completely tied together. I had the windsheild rubbing against the a-pillar bar when I drove that car. So it's getting some a-pillar gussets and some other good stuff.

[LA_phantom_240]

Vert = heavy. I got rid of mine with the quickness because the difference in weight and rigidity were pissing me off....

[Sonic Motor]

Originally Posted by LA_phantom_240

Vert = heavy. I got rid of mine with the quickness because the difference in weight and rigidity were pissing me off....

drifting is about style...
Nothing says Style, then drifting top down.
Just for fun, a roll bar and side bars should be enough IMO.

However, its kinda retarded to drift with full rollcage in a vert if its not for formula D or something. Like La Phantom says, its really heavy and probably not worth all the trouble. Might as well get rid of it and get a coupe or something if someone is serious abuot drifting...ppl need to stop trying to be different like Ben swartz

[Bushido]

sucks that a rollcage ruins the look of the vert.

hmm.. anyone ever thought of adapting the rollbar that is used on some convertible cobra mustangs?

[Sonic Motor]

Originally Posted by Bushido

sucks that a rollcage ruins the look of the vert.

hmm.. anyone ever thought of adapting the rollbar that is used on some convertible cobra mustangs?

yeah exactly!! i totally agree.

[brokeAs240sx]

Originally Posted by Wiisass

I'm a big fan of verts, after I did a cage in one, I really wanted to find one for myself to build.

Hopefully someday I'll have one. But until then I'll live my vert dreams through that car. It should be coming back soon for gussets. Gussets are key with the vert, even with the full cage, the front of the car still isn't completely tied together. I had the windsheild rubbing against the a-pillar bar when I drove that car. So it's getting some a-pillar gussets and some other good stuff.

Nice! Top still open & close normally w/ that cage setup? I'm slowly heading toward that point of full cage but still want to be able to lock the top, which seems to be in the way of optimal cage tubing .

Bushido:
There were a couple guys who adapted the dual hump roll bars from miatas... however, looking @ the finished product, it looked more likely to endanger you in a rollover than protect you. Looked pretty good though.

All you'd really have to do to get "close" to that mustang style is dress up your roll bar w/ some fiberglass/plastic - of course, you'd need some fiberglass/plastic skills.

[s13silvia123]

Originally Posted by ThatGuy

Get a good cage.

Not only because there is no top on the car, but because 'Verts are over flexy.

Don't know if it's a "Rule", but it is a good idea.

i think there is a rule there arent too many verts over here but Rob from touge factory drifts in a miata and from what i remember from the stack of rules they put out for having a vert is that you'll have to have it. no matter what.

[Wiisass]

Originally Posted by brokeAs240sx

Nice! Top still open & close normally w/ that cage setup? I'm slowly heading toward that point of full cage but still want to be able to lock the top, which seems to be in the way of optimal cage tubing .

Bushido:
There were a couple guys who adapted the dual hump roll bars from miatas... however, looking @ the finished product, it looked more likely to endanger you in a rollover than protect you. Looked pretty good though.

All you'd really have to do to get "close" to that mustang style is dress up your roll bar w/ some fiberglass/plastic - of course, you'd need some fiberglass/plastic skills.

Everything still fits with the top. It's a tight fit, but everything fits. The way the hook swings up when you're closing the top kind of twists around the bar. Being a vert, there were some compromises so everything would still function, but I don't think there was really anything major that was changed too much. The biggest problem was the thinner main hoop due to the extra chassis bracing coupled with the wider seat that was being used. So it made the door bars pretty interesting, but I love the way they came out.

There's some pics in my gallery that show the fitment with the top a little better:
http://www.theoryinpracticeengineering.com/gallery/chi/

I think if you're doing any performance driving with a vert, a full cage would be best. It's awesome driving around a car with a full cage with the top down. There isn't much more above you with a full cage than with a roll bar and you get a lot of additional stiffening from it. And with a good cage, a lot of the extra bracing can be removed and the car can come back down to normal s-chassis weight.

I really want to build one with a full cage and just get rid of the top all together. Just have it for nice days, it would make an awesome summer car, I just wouldn't want to run errands with it and leave it all open in some parking lot for too long or get caught in the rain, but other than that, it would be a lot of fun.

Tim

[johngriff]

You have to have a cage to tandem regardless, and that is the most fun. So everyone should have a cage anyways. Its just safer.

[azndoc]

Ye$ John i$ correct, it$ better to be $afe than $o$$y.

[!Zar!]

That'$ a nice cage. The weld$ and fitment is $pectacular.

Props to Wii$a$$

[Wiisass]

Thank$ Zar. What'$ with the dollar $ign$?

[DUFFM4N]

that cage i$ ballin....plan$ to paint it or ju$t leave it a$ i$ ???

[SochBAT]

I'd $ay don't paint it. if you wanna $ee head$ turn, leave it ru$ted to $hit.

That'd look $0000 cool.

$eriou$ly. Unpainted.

[brokeAs240sx]

Found the info on the bracing added on by ASC:

Originally Posted by Hijacker from forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=77984

Chassis bracing. And lots of it