double wishbone - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 06:58 PM

i was wondering if you could swap in a double wishbone suspension instead of the struts 240's come with stock.  just an idea so dont start sayin im crazy cause the price will blow my ass up.

wherezmytofu · 02-18-2002, 07:42 PM

i would also like to know about this <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 07:46 PM

Why would you?  I mean, honestly, have you even mastered driving enough that your handling would improve with a double wishbone?  MacPherson strut gets a bad rap, but its more than capable - both BMW and Porsche use it.  I guess if you really wanted a suspension swap, it would make more sense to swap in the multi link from the skyline and 300ZX...

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 07:52 PM

ok....its just a thought....im not gonna go out and do it cause it tooo god #### expensive.  and yes im a decent driver and i think even if you were a shitty driver it would help having more control over the car.  you cant compare nissan and bmw macphersons cause bmw is at a whole other level.

wherezmytofu · 02-18-2002, 07:55 PM

so the front 300zx suspention will swap into the 240sx eh?...interesting <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 07:56 PM

why didnt they do it in the first place...cost maybe... or not enough room?

drift freaq · 02-18-2002, 07:58 PM

guys our cars already have the multi link suspension in the rear just like the 300zx. hehehehehe the 300zx has double wishbone in front I believe.

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 08:00 PM

yea im talkin about the front

wherezmytofu · 02-18-2002, 08:00 PM

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from drift freaq on 7:58 pm on Feb. 18, 2002
guys our cars already have the multi link suspension in the rear just like the 300zx. hehehehehe the 300zx has double wishbone in front I believe.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

i know thats what im talking about...swaping the 300zx front suspension...i hate macperson!!!

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 08:06 PM

I'm not saying you CAN swap the front suspension without a WHOLE lot of custom work, I'm just saying that if you wanted to, then that would probably be the suspension you should go with.
And as far as Nissan's MacPherson struts being on a lower tier than Porsche and BMW, explain to me whats wrong with how your 240SX handles, and what the double wishbone would fix?

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 08:08 PM

And minime, you're right about why they didn't.  Double wishbones take up a helluva lot of room, which is why most cars don't have them - better packaging.

wherezmytofu · 02-18-2002, 08:09 PM

i hate macpherson!.thats what i'd fix!

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 08:14 PM

ive driven both m3's and a 325 and they are just bad asses on the twisties.  nothing comes close.  sure we have perfect 50/50 but their suspension geometry is just far more advanced than the nissans.  and theres no way in #### you can compare porsche mac's to nissan mac's.  thats like night and day.

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 08:17 PM

Yeah, but I'm asking whats wrong with the handling characteristics of the MacPherson that the double wishbone would fix?

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 08:26 PM

oh... ok here goes:

a machperson strut looks like this (work with me here):
|
|
just a str8 rod with a shock absorber connectin to the axle.
a double wishbone suspensio looks liek this (this is a top view):
|\
|/
just a triangle two of them connected to the wheel
they offer more linkage to the wheel (i.e. more feed back) and a shock connects to the bottom one they both pivot on  joints that go up and down.  the shock is angled so that when it compresses teh wheel instead of giong str8 up cuves slightly to keep more rubber in contact with the road.  

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 08:36 PM

I'm not saying that the double wishbone isn't better, and I'm not asking why theoretically its better...but lets think about this for a second.  If you have less rubber in contact with the road, and that was a problem, then theoretically understeer would occur (less traction in front than in back).  Does your car have an understeer problem?  If it does, why not just fix it with strut and sway bars instead of a totally different suspension?  Changing suspensions on a street car is totally pointless, unless your building an old street rod and using something like a Model A.  The only place where I can see something like that being feasible is in rally racing, where so much more suspension travel is necessary.

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 08:43 PM

actually double wishbone has less suspension travel because of the angle of the shock.  the reason i would do a swap like that if i had the money is becuase lets say that you have two cars ... identical cars and you do the same mods to them in the suspenision except one car has mac's and the other has double wish.  the double wish would have better handling.  changing to double wish is really only for when i would have big fat tires and i would only be getting a fraction of that rubber on the road while as in double wishbone id be getting the whole rubber in contact with the road.  a few milimeters does wonders for grip, its amazing.  and no my car has no understeer problems.  its neutral

crazycuban · 02-18-2002, 08:48 PM

Yeah, I'm not saying for rally you would switch the double wishbone, I'm just saying that thats the only way I'd see a suspension swap period.  And if you have a neutral handling car, then unless you want to make a skidpad queen, why not leave it at that?  Spend money on REALLY sticky tires.

Tuck&Poke · 02-18-2002, 08:51 PM

im not gonna do it i just wanted to know what would have to be done and a price range of what it would cost.  im figuring its very costly so its not on my agenda but id do it if i could afford it just to have something no one else has.  that would win me some shows if i did it.

Anubis · 02-18-2002, 09:41 PM

If you got the money to change the suspension type, just go buy a honda or something with double wishbone suspension, then put in an SR20 and convert the body to rear wheel drive somehow. hahaha

drift freaq · 02-18-2002, 09:42 PM

ok guys the 240sx front strut setup in fact is a comprimise. its not the best but it does its job pretty well and was not expensive for Nissan to design and install in the car. You have to remember we are talking about a $15K sports car that came with a very sophisticated rear suspension as it is.
to put a double wishbone front suspension in the car would have meant a complete redesign of the whole front end and engine compartment. We are talking about a S series car here they have always had macpherson strut front suspension. Nissan spent a lot of money to redesign the 300zx between the z31 model and the z32 the fact is the z31 had macpherson front struts. If they had done the same thing with the S13 or S14 it would have driven the price of the car up big time.

02-18-2002, 06:58 PM	#1
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i was wondering if you could swap in a double wishbone suspension instead of the struts 240's come with stock.  just an idea so dont start sayin im crazy cause the price will blow my ass up.

02-18-2002, 07:42 PM	#2
wherezmytofu BANNED Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,873 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i would also like to know about this <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

02-18-2002, 07:46 PM	#3
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Why would you?  I mean, honestly, have you even mastered driving enough that your handling would improve with a double wishbone?  MacPherson strut gets a bad rap, but its more than capable - both BMW and Porsche use it.  I guess if you really wanted a suspension swap, it would make more sense to swap in the multi link from the skyline and 300ZX...

02-18-2002, 07:52 PM	#4
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ok....its just a thought....im not gonna go out and do it cause it tooo god #### expensive.  and yes im a decent driver and i think even if you were a shitty driver it would help having more control over the car.  you cant compare nissan and bmw macphersons cause bmw is at a whole other level.

02-18-2002, 07:55 PM	#5
wherezmytofu BANNED Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,873 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	so the front 300zx suspention will swap into the 240sx eh?...interesting <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

02-18-2002, 07:56 PM	#6
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	why didnt they do it in the first place...cost maybe... or not enough room?

02-18-2002, 07:58 PM	#7
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,564 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	guys our cars already have the multi link suspension in the rear just like the 300zx. hehehehehe the 300zx has double wishbone in front I believe.

02-18-2002, 08:00 PM	#8
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	yea im talkin about the front

02-18-2002, 08:06 PM	#10
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm not saying you CAN swap the front suspension without a WHOLE lot of custom work, I'm just saying that if you wanted to, then that would probably be the suspension you should go with. And as far as Nissan's MacPherson struts being on a lower tier than Porsche and BMW, explain to me whats wrong with how your 240SX handles, and what the double wishbone would fix?

02-18-2002, 08:08 PM	#11
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	And minime, you're right about why they didn't.  Double wishbones take up a helluva lot of room, which is why most cars don't have them - better packaging.

02-18-2002, 08:09 PM	#12
wherezmytofu BANNED Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,873 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i hate macpherson!.thats what i'd fix!

02-18-2002, 08:14 PM	#13
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	ive driven both m3's and a 325 and they are just bad asses on the twisties.  nothing comes close.  sure we have perfect 50/50 but their suspension geometry is just far more advanced than the nissans.  and theres no way in #### you can compare porsche mac's to nissan mac's.  thats like night and day.

02-18-2002, 08:17 PM	#14
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah, but I'm asking whats wrong with the handling characteristics of the MacPherson that the double wishbone would fix?

02-18-2002, 08:26 PM	#15
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	oh... ok here goes: a machperson strut looks like this (work with me here): \| \| just a str8 rod with a shock absorber connectin to the axle. a double wishbone suspensio looks liek this (this is a top view): \|\ \|/ just a triangle two of them connected to the wheel they offer more linkage to the wheel (i.e. more feed back) and a shock connects to the bottom one they both pivot on  joints that go up and down.  the shock is angled so that when it compresses teh wheel instead of giong str8 up cuves slightly to keep more rubber in contact with the road.

02-18-2002, 08:36 PM	#16
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I'm not saying that the double wishbone isn't better, and I'm not asking why theoretically its better...but lets think about this for a second.  If you have less rubber in contact with the road, and that was a problem, then theoretically understeer would occur (less traction in front than in back).  Does your car have an understeer problem?  If it does, why not just fix it with strut and sway bars instead of a totally different suspension?  Changing suspensions on a street car is totally pointless, unless your building an old street rod and using something like a Model A.  The only place where I can see something like that being feasible is in rally racing, where so much more suspension travel is necessary.

02-18-2002, 08:43 PM	#17
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	actually double wishbone has less suspension travel because of the angle of the shock.  the reason i would do a swap like that if i had the money is becuase lets say that you have two cars ... identical cars and you do the same mods to them in the suspenision except one car has mac's and the other has double wish.  the double wish would have better handling.  changing to double wish is really only for when i would have big fat tires and i would only be getting a fraction of that rubber on the road while as in double wishbone id be getting the whole rubber in contact with the road.  a few milimeters does wonders for grip, its amazing.  and no my car has no understeer problems.  its neutral

02-18-2002, 08:48 PM	#18
crazycuban Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 526 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah, I'm not saying for rally you would switch the double wishbone, I'm just saying that thats the only way I'd see a suspension swap period.  And if you have a neutral handling car, then unless you want to make a skidpad queen, why not leave it at that?  Spend money on REALLY sticky tires.

02-18-2002, 08:51 PM	#19
Tuck&Poke Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: MIA Age: 38 Posts: 1,046 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	im not gonna do it i just wanted to know what would have to be done and a price range of what it would cost.  im figuring its very costly so its not on my agenda but id do it if i could afford it just to have something no one else has.  that would win me some shows if i did it.

02-18-2002, 09:41 PM	#20
Anubis BANNED Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SAN DIEGO, CA Age: 39 Posts: 990 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	If you got the money to change the suspension type, just go buy a honda or something with double wishbone suspension, then put in an SR20 and convert the body to rear wheel drive somehow. hahaha

02-18-2002, 09:42 PM	#21
drift freaq R.I.P. Aya, always love Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Los Feliz/Hollywood Posts: 18,564 Trader Rating: (215) Rides Gallery: drift freaq Feedback Score: 215 reviews	ok guys the 240sx front strut setup in fact is a comprimise. its not the best but it does its job pretty well and was not expensive for Nissan to design and install in the car. You have to remember we are talking about a $15K sports car that came with a very sophisticated rear suspension as it is. to put a double wishbone front suspension in the car would have meant a complete redesign of the whole front end and engine compartment. We are talking about a S series car here they have always had macpherson strut front suspension. Nissan spent a lot of money to redesign the 300zx between the z31 model and the z32 the fact is the z31 had macpherson front struts. If they had done the same thing with the S13 or S14 it would have driven the price of the car up big time.