A lesson well learned.... Need some guidance...

[BeatJunky]

[edit: sorry the bible worthy long post]

Offender: 1990 240SX Coupe XE 5-Speed KA24E All Stock
Victim: Me

My car wasnt in the best mechanical shape but it was at least running somewhat reliably about 3 days ago. It would consume about a quart of oil every 2 weeks or so, It ran rich and blew black smoke from exhaust and ticked heavily from valves on and off. To name a few problems.

Anyway, here's my situation. I went to the store to a quart of oil to add and I saw a bottle of ring sealer. I had heard from a friend that the my rings may be worn and this is why it's blowing smoke so I figured I'd try this product. Added the product and the oil and the car was quiter from the ticking and the idle was at about 900 rpm rather than it's usual 1,100 rpm sitting point. That was good IMO. However, it was blowing WHITE/BLUE smoke from exhaust if I revved up to redline.

Drove around fine for a few hours and then all a sudden as I was driving the exhaust pitch got very low and deep, the engine would accelerate sluggishly and the ticking got louder. Not good.

Next day, complete oil change w/filter plus flush. RPM's went back to 1,100 rpms, ticking was same, engine revved easier. Almost like before. When I drove it the car seemed to still be sluggish but it was at the leat 75% better than the day before. So I was calmed a bit.

I knew there was still a problem so I'm thinking I must have damaged the oil pump or something running such viscous oil and the additive.

On the third day, I noticed the valve cover had some minor amount of oil seeping thru perhaps due to the pressure from the days past so I decided to go on and fix that. Got new gasket and I did the job. Car was still the same of course BUT, As I was putting the valve cover back on I kinda put some pressure on the foremost injector with my hand to make clearance to put the screw on and when I touched it, it spit fuel out into the engine bay right onto the intake mani. This made me freak. Finished what I was doing and ran the engine at idle. As it idled, I moved each injector a bit to see what would happen, here are the results:

Frontmost injector: Spit fuel out if touched.
Second towards rear: No effect.
Third towards rear: No effect.
Last at Rear: Makes engine want to stall.

I was told that this could just be the o-ring but Im convinced to replace the 1st and last injectors.

Now today, my car turned on right away after sitting all day with the clicking and acceleration problems going on. Went to the store bought some things came out, car was normal. 5 minutes later stopped at the car wash and it wouldnt start!!!

Ignition seemed fine, Fuel delivery was there cause I could smell the fumes, STRONG, but It wouldnt catch or hold.

Tried to roll start it. Nothing.

I let it sit for 15 minutes after hassling with it and the it barely turned on, I had to hold my foot on the gas pedal so that the car woudlnt start and it ran poorly thereafter. If at a stop I had to hold the pedal down still because if I were to let go and the press the rpms would drop and almost stall the car.

Parked the car for an hour or so, started right up, ran fine like before, ticking and a little rough.

Anyone have any ideas/suggestion.

I appreciate the help...

-Omar

[BeatJunky]

Did some more searching and heres what I will do tomorrow.

1) Remove oil pan, clean best as possible
2) Run engine at idle w/ 2qts oil and 2 qts ATF for one hour then refill with oil. It's said this may resolve ticking together w/oil plan change/cleaning.
3) Test injectors by removing rail from block and laying on a cloth, removing plugs and crank engine w/starter to see how injectors spray.
4) If injectors ok I will replace rings as this is relatively cheap.

I'll post back w/results.

While I do this and post back... Anyone know how I test FPR and Fuel Pump??

Did some searching and found a thread but it only confused me more.

Thanks!

-Omar

[BeatJunky]

Did the following:

2) Run engine at idle w/ 2qts oil and 2 qts ATF for one hour then refill with oil. It's said this may resolve ticking together w/oil plan change/cleaning.

Made my car as well as it was before I added that crappy ringsealer. Got my peppy car back.

However Im still suffering from the tick. Will check injectors and do oil pan tomorrow. Also, the wire that plugs into the 02 sensor is cut. How will not having the 02 sensor connected affect my car?

Thanks!

-Omar

[Yoshi]

could this be totally unrelated?
Probably.

But still worth thinking about

I had a very similar problem with my KA 240, fortunately it was not when I was doing any other changes (oil, additives, etc). The car would seem to randomly just die and not start again. Turned out to be an intermittent prob with the distributor, I replaced it, and all was great.

Now... could this be your prob? prolly not, but it's worth keeping in mind. No spark = no fun

[nokeone]

Originally posted by Yoshi


I had a very similar problem with my KA 240, fortunately it was not when I was doing any other changes (oil, additives, etc). The car would seem to randomly just die and not start again. Turned out to be an intermittent prob with the distributor, I replaced it, and all was great.

Now... could this be your prob? prolly not, but it's worth keeping in mind. No spark = no fun

funny you mention that because i had the EXACT same thing happen after i replaced my head gasket...car would idle horribly, die at times, and be sluggish...i was convinced i had messed up the cam time when replacing them after the gasket change...i spent weeks trying to figure it out..then it finally died on me..i was sure i had messed up an interference motor and it was a lost cause...checked spark just for $hits and giggles and found it to be there, but very weak...put everything back together...replace dist, cap, and rotor...and what do you know...ran like a dream ever since...

go figure...

[BeatJunky]

Guess I could check it out. Wouldn't hurt. How would I go on about that?

Im trying to fix the 02 sensor wire with more priority than anything else at the moment.

Also, just read on how to service, remove the AIV. that's getting done to which could probably solve the rpms jumping from time to time and bogging.

Anyway, back to your distributor comment. It's also possible that I bought the wrong cap & rotor. When I bought them they asked if I wanted the "mitsubishi" model or "hitachi". Cant exactly say which one I bought cuz I cant remember. But it works. What's the diff between the two?

Also, I bought a bosch wire set which two extra wires? Dunno if that's ok but it came with seven wires out of which i used five only. The ones I saw best fit the car. They work but then again maybe this has something to do with the starting problem.

Im more worried about the damn ticking smoking problems than the starting problem.

AIV will get serviced tomorrow for sure, the 02 sensor hopefully as well. I also read the if even one injector is leaking even a single little bit then I should expect the smoking and running rich effect. I just dont wanna mess with the injectors without someone to kinda watch over and make sure I dont screw them up.

Here's a pic of the 02 sensor wire:

[BeatJunky]

Originally posted by nokeone
replace dist, cap, and rotor...and what do you know...ran like a dream ever since...

go figure...

interesting indeed.

I tell ya. I kinda doubt that the dist would do the trick but you two doubted it as well and it was the real problem afterall.

I will look into this as well. How can I check the distributor for problems.

Also, about the "hitachi" or "mitsubishi" difference when it comes to the cap & rotor at least, What is the difference and which should I always choose?

I think I chose "hitachi" last time. Not sure if I chose wrong and am now having these problems.

-Omar

[nokeone]

Originally posted by BeatJunky
Guess I could check it out. Wouldn't hurt. How would I go on about that?

pull the spark plug wire off plug, remove plug from car, put plug back into plug wire, ground, turn ignition, look for spark..

[BeatJunky]

how do i ground it?

*im such a noob dammit*

[nokeone]

Originally posted by BeatJunky
how do i ground it?

*im such a noob dammit*

just touch the metal, threaded, part of the spark plug to your block..you can even put it against the same place where the block ground wire runs from to ensure a good location...just make sure you make good contact with a clean surface..

definately a 2 person job to ensure you can closely watch the spark plug for any sign of spark while the engine is being turn over..either that or do it in a darker area..makes it easier to see..

[BeatJunky]

Cool... I'll definitely be spending some bonding time with the car tomorrow.

[BeatJunky]

A thought...

So if I get spark from any plug as I test it, this means my dist is fine? And I SHOULD test all plugs.

What if I dont get spark? The dist is the problem or could it be wires, cap or rotor that are to blame?

[Andy5]

i'm having exact same problem as you are. I can't figure it out either, i've replaced the o2 sensor, i'm trying to find an engine temp sensor, the parts dealer said they don't have any my ECU says mine is bad. this car is making me crazy. The only difference in mine and yours is when your near redline ur car smokes, mine won't smoke unless i've been idling at a light and give it gas, its not dense smoke so i don't beleave its coolant, i go through oil but not a quart a week. My plugs show normal wear and no sign of oil leakage.

Car feels sluggish, at time when i'm at a stop and give it gas the RPMs Drop real low near 500 and it pops-up. I don't think its a fuel pump problem i replaced my fuel filter w/ 300zx one no change still dose it.

Have you tried compression testing your motor? Good way of telling if your rings are bad. I will do mine shortly when I get enough time.


I'll keep this post in favorites if i run acrossed the problem, i'll share it,

And with your o2, its a 1 wire sensor, mine was rusted to crap so i went to home depo picked up some connectors that looked like the stock one on my car, spliced the o2 wire into the male side and the body to the female, worked for me.

I have SOHC also so, our problem has to be simaliar.

"i'm real sick so i'm not gonna proof read so if there bad mistakes, its cause i was to lazy to go back and check "

[BeatJunky]

Thanks for the post Andy. We have the same problems indeed.

Are you able to provide a pic at all of the 02 sensor wire job you did? Also, a friend has offered to do the compression and leak down test on my car for a measly $40. I'll do that as well.

[Andy5]

Cam isn't working, um, I'll serach around and show u what i used.


i used these, then put electrical tape around them to keep from water getting on them.

[BeatJunky]

Thats a pretty neat fix for the wire. Thanks a Million!

I'll go get those now actually.

Im off now. Post back tomorrow with some results.

-Omar

[Andy5]

:P i'm the rig king, i hope it works, no ECU flash for it yet.

[Andy5]

also try change your engine temp sensor, i just changed mine, car runs smoothly, still a lil rough at idle but that has to do with something else. i got my RPMs down to 750 "stock idle" when i step on my gas a little/half-way/full no hesitation. Its a $17 sensor at autozone new I called it an engine temp sensor, but the kid knew what it was sense he owns a S13, same as a coolant temp so just say Coolant Temp sensor. If u try that. Btw don't wire that why ur motor is hot, your knuckles will be sore like mine :hammer: if u leave the o2s. in the mani ..

[BeatJunky]

My buddy works at AutoZone... Discount!!!

Cool Beans, I'll get that too...

[DuffMan]

Ack, Omar, your car has too many problems. Get an SR.

[BeatJunky]

Originally posted by DuffMan
Ack, Omar, your car has too many problems. Get an SR.

I know... Cant do it till Feb.'04, but beleive you me, it will be done!

Just need this damn thing to last 'till then.

I removed the AIV completely, plugged up the two little hoses on the frontside of car from AIV but dont know how to plug up the exhaust hose. It's a metal hose that leads to the downpipe. Any ideas?

Also, my distributor does seem to fine. Checked the plugs like described above and they all sparked. I got shocked once. Was kinda cool and painful at the same time...lol.

Anywho, car was driving nicely and strong yesterday except for loud ticking and smoke at high revs. Then this morning after 20 minutes of driving it all of a sudden lost its power and began to shake again.

What gives? It's still the same.

I cant clean oil pan and change gasket cuz I hear I have to raise engine. Havent checked injectors yet cuz I want a friend to help but when we do we are also gonna check the valves.

-Omar

[BeatJunky]

I read on a general automotive repair book that the Engine Temp Sensor (Coolant Temp Sensor) may very well be the cause of my problems.

Car is still running crappy on this second day and I havent had a chance to check.

Im considering swapping this engine out for another SOHC with 50k less miles.

Is this a difficult task or just time consuming. Anyone who's done it before, can you add some input here.

[720_datsun]

Originally posted by BeatJunky
[edit: sorry the bible worthy long post]

Offender: 1990 240SX Coupe XE 5-Speed KA24E All Stock
Victim: Me

My car wasnt in the best mechanical shape but it was at least running somewhat reliably about 3 days ago. It would consume about a quart of oil every 2 weeks or so, It ran rich and blew black smoke from exhaust and ticked heavily from valves on and off. To name a few problems.

Anyway, here's my situation. I went to the store to a quart of oil to add and I saw a bottle of ring sealer. I had heard from a friend that the my rings may be worn and this is why it's blowing smoke so I figured I'd try this product. Added the product and the oil and the car was quiter from the ticking and the idle was at about 900 rpm rather than it's usual 1,100 rpm sitting point. That was good IMO. However, it was blowing WHITE/BLUE smoke from exhaust if I revved up to redline.

Drove around fine for a few hours and then all a sudden as I was driving the exhaust pitch got very low and deep, the engine would accelerate sluggishly and the ticking got louder. Not good.

Next day, complete oil change w/filter plus flush. RPM's went back to 1,100 rpms, ticking was same, engine revved easier. Almost like before. When I drove it the car seemed to still be sluggish but it was at the leat 75% better than the day before. So I was calmed a bit.

I knew there was still a problem so I'm thinking I must have damaged the oil pump or something running such viscous oil and the additive.

On the third day, I noticed the valve cover had some minor amount of oil seeping thru perhaps due to the pressure from the days past so I decided to go on and fix that. Got new gasket and I did the job. Car was still the same of course BUT, As I was putting the valve cover back on I kinda put some pressure on the foremost injector with my hand to make clearance to put the screw on and when I touched it, it spit fuel out into the engine bay right onto the intake mani. This made me freak. Finished what I was doing and ran the engine at idle. As it idled, I moved each injector a bit to see what would happen, here are the results:

Frontmost injector: Spit fuel out if touched.
Second towards rear: No effect.
Third towards rear: No effect.
Last at Rear: Makes engine want to stall.

I was told that this could just be the o-ring but Im convinced to replace the 1st and last injectors.

Now today, my car turned on right away after sitting all day with the clicking and acceleration problems going on. Went to the store bought some things came out, car was normal. 5 minutes later stopped at the car wash and it wouldnt start!!!

Ignition seemed fine, Fuel delivery was there cause I could smell the fumes, STRONG, but It wouldnt catch or hold.

Tried to roll start it. Nothing.

I let it sit for 15 minutes after hassling with it and the it barely turned on, I had to hold my foot on the gas pedal so that the car woudlnt start and it ran poorly thereafter. If at a stop I had to hold the pedal down still because if I were to let go and the press the rpms would drop and almost stall the car.

Parked the car for an hour or so, started right up, ran fine like before, ticking and a little rough.

Anyone have any ideas/suggestion.

I appreciate the help...

-Omar

i have semi the same problem with my truck. hard as **** to get started, revs really really slow, i have to be on the gas other rpms drop almost to stall. i can fill the parking lot with white/blue smoke in a minute. i was told it was my rings and vavle seal. aka about $500. my second cylinder get filled with oil.

[BeatJunky]

Who told you that?

[Var]

I was gonna say valve seal to ANDY5. I had an 85 corolla that did the same thing , smokes after idling for a few minutes. I was told it was the valve seal. Sold the car instead of fixing it.

[steve shadows]

god i love my sr, why did they ever put that pos motor in these beutiful cars....ill find the nissan employee who made that choice someday

[BeatJunky]

Screw it... She's up for sale now.

Im trying to get a 98 Infiniti I30...

See sig for FS LINK

[texsilvia]

I was having similar problems with my 96 KA 240. It would barely run at idle and seemed sluggish.

I ran a diagnostic tool on it and got P0550 as the code, which comes back as a bad idle control motor. After talking to the tech at the local dealer and learning that nissan does not stock the idle conrol motor in the United States we decided that it was probably something else on the throttlebody that was causing a poor signal.

What I ended up doing was taking the throttlebody off and cleaning the crap out of it with carb & choke cleaner until it was spotless, all the vacuum holes were free and clear of gunk and garbage, and the edge of the throttle plate was cleaned of carbon and what not.

I didn't believe it would work but was I ever wrong, just cleaning the throttlebody made a 100% difference in the way the car runs and idles and even the gas mileage impoved.

This may or may not help you...but it's worth a shot.


Also, regarding the ticking sound from KA24DE's...

There is an upper timing chain tensioner that consists of a simple L shaped piece of metal over top of the timing chain between the cam sprockets. Many MANY times, this part is broken or so badly damaged from wear that it's non-functional. You have 2 choices:

1) take it off...put your car back together and drive away without replacing it, <dealer approved option> My car is currently like this.

2) Buy the replacement part, replace the defective part, reassemble car and drive away. <also dealer approved>

This may solve a great deal of your upper valve train noise.

I am looking for a new upper timing chain tensioner to install, if for no other reason than to see if there is any difference.

Just my $0.02

-Texsilvia

[BeatJunky]

I have an SOHC so no timing guide to the best of my knowledge...

Thanks for th input. I hope it helps others but Im really trying to sell her. If not she's gonna get traded by this weekend which I hope I dont have to do because I'll lose the car plus cash. At least if I sell her I won't lose cash.

-Omar

[old_s13]

Originally posted by DuffMan
Ack, Omar, your car has too many problems. Get an SR.

dont be stupid. if you cant keep a 140hp motor running right, what makes you think someone can keep a 200+ TURBO motor running right?

not judging anyone, just saying that things arent as easy as "oh well, might as well go SR" -- i think thats a lame perspective.

-m