Drifters, Rear Camber... Grip vs Tire Wear

[derass]

It is my understanding that some camber is beneficial for track driving, as the body rolls in a turn, negative camber allows for a flat contact patch at the outer wheel.

My car is setup at -2.5 camber at the rear. The problem I have is with tire wear. Only 3/4 of the width of the tire gets used up, so I try to flip the tires halfway through their life, this is a hassle. Sometimes, I let a session go too long without checking the tires and end up wearing the inside of the tires to the belts while the outer edge is still nearly new. I find that frustrating as it feels like a waste of money.

I spoke with Chris Forsberg while we were changing tires at Englishtown, and he said to me, just by looking at the tires I was flipping, that I am running too much camber and that I should run 0 like him, as he showed me a evenly burnt tire from his missle. I didn't think to ask him all this.

So my question is, it is worth sacrifcing cornering grip for even tire wear? What is your opionion on the matter? Thanks!

[Jfitzg38]

If you have the power to do so (I.e. not running heavy/big wheels with a ka) then yes, go for 0* camber. I'm running 5* with 17" work eurolines and can slide easily, but as you said have to flip them constantly. I'll be fixing this alignment to a lower camber, but with and sr or more power, 0* would be great.

[derass]

I do have the power to get away with 0 camber, just concerend with sacrficing cornering grip.

[Biggamehit]

I run zero rear camber with a tad of toe in amazing grip and wear.
My tires that I run in rear are 245-255 Kenda Kaiser

[derass]

Thanks for the input! I am also using toe-in at the rear. What is your HP level? I am at 320 whp and use 235/40R17 UHP.

[Def]

Our rear suspensions gain so much camber in bump that you need to run zero or close to it for a drift car.

[!Zar!]

I am running -1.5* rear camber with 0 toe.

My tire wear is pretty much even.

I'd like to try less, but unfortunately my wheels won't clear my fenders with anything less.

[do it sideways]

I'm little confused are u drifting or road racing the car? If drifting go with a -.05 camber in the rear . trust me I went from -2.5 to -.05 and my tires lasted 3 time as long, and so much more grip!

[RurouniMidnight]

Yes im a little confused also, because you were talking about drifting but concerned with corner grip... I run -.05 rear camber and no sway bar, tires wear super evenly. Our cars as mentioned have so much camber gain when squatting during drifting that your -2.5 degrees turns into prob some crazy amount. So yes it would make since to run almost no rear camber and get more grip while drifting with more tire contact plus better wear

[brndck]

I highly recommend a low camber (1.5* or less) setup for drifting if you have decent power.

[derass]

This is about drifting, but the concept is the same. When a car's body rolls in a corner, the negative camber provides a flat contact patch. I suppose the difference is that in drifting, while cornering, you are much more heavy in the throttle than while road racing, causing the rear to squat. This is where camber gain comes into play, I did not consider this before.

Edit: How about on initiation? You are usually not in the throttle and if you are setup at 0 camber, I'm thinking the tire will centainly roll into positive.

[racepar1]

More camber does not equal more grip. In fact, for the rear of the 240 it is pretty much exactly the opposite. The 240 rear suspension gains a shit-ton of camber on compression. This means that you need far less static camber to achieve the deisred camber dynamically. The ONLY reason to camber the fuck out of the rear of a 240 is to fit super awesometown spec wheels and be a "hardcore badass". For a road race setup I would run around 1* of negative camber in the rear and somewhere around 3* in the front. A drift setup should be very similar as drift cars are set up more to grip than slide nowadays. That allows crazy angle and entry speed as long as you've got the power to overcome all that grip.

[derass]

That is good insight. I didn't consider the relation between suspension travel and camber gain, its quite obvious in hindsight. When the body rolls in a corner, the suspension compresses and there is camber gain. So while dynamically, there would be a greater camber angle than the static setting, while cornering, if you freeze time and look at the tire's camber angle in relation to the road and not the car, it would be close to the static setting.

[singlecamslam]

Stupid question, but whats decent power to you guys who run 0 camber? I was thinking this also but i dont think a stock rb can do 0 camber with 235's?

[mechanicalmoron]

I keep seeing people say that when the body rolls, negative camber provides a flat contact patch.

wrooong.

When the body rolls, your camber goes even farther negative, because that roll is compressing the suspension on that side. What gives you a flat contact patch is the way the tire flexes under sideways forces, it's basically pushed over, just like if you push sideways on the parked car (only obviously more extreme).

If you have too much negative camber, it will be easy to break away the rear, but obviously, you'll chew up tires. (however if you're NOT drifting, -2.5, in my experience, really didn't increase wear THAT much, but it has considerably less traction in a strait line. I have an open diff, but I'd spin the inner tire without meaning to on hard turns, if I had an LSD I don't know if it would have mad more grip on the outside, or just broken both).

You could at least try putting it in fsm spec. I forget exactly, but it's like -.25 to -1.35, or something like that.

[derass]

When cornering, the camber does increase with suspension compression, however the camber angle relative to the road would remain close to the static setting.

As listed above, I use 40 series sidewalls, so I doubt there is much flex there.

[mechanicalmoron]

Originally Posted by derass

When cornering, the camber does increase with suspension compression, however the camber angle relative to the road would remain close to the static setting.

As listed above, I use 40 series sidewalls, so I doubt there is much flex there.

But it's still not what's putting more rubber on the ground.

If you don't think your tire's flexing, there's no need for anywhere as much (...little) camber. You could try using something on the sidewall to see how far it's rolling, like autocrossers do.

Negative camber is just to compensate so that you're not riding on the outside edge of the outside tire (the one with more weight, so the one that needs to have a good contact patch) in turns. For your purposes it decreases grip, especially once the tire's spinning and not digging in, it's not going to be flexed and pulled over like that. If you have the power to spin it with a more neutral camber, do it, imo.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by derass

When cornering, the camber does increase with suspension compression, however the camber angle relative to the road would remain close to the static setting.

As listed above, I use 40 series sidewalls, so I doubt there is much flex there.

You need to work on your understanding of suspension. Your statement above is wrong.

40 series sidewalls still flex, especially when you're talking about r-compound tires.