steering rack issue - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Kreator · 03-29-2005, 08:36 PM

Preface:
December 2003 - icy roads + me being stupid = car meets the curb. Nothing major, bent inner tie rod and messed up control arm. no biggie. But I decide to be stupid again. Doing it for the first i thought that i had to swap the whole power steering rack. So i did that. Now after the car got back on the road and had an alignment done, it still pulled to the right and in order to correct that motion the wheel always had to be turned a bit left. Now at that moment i thought we messed up and missed one of the teeth, but was too lazy to fix it.

Fast forward to now: i just swapped my engine for a better condition one and while the engine was out, i decided to mess with the rack again, given it was really easily accessible. Now i don't know how you are supposed to get the rack centered, but what made sense to me was approximate what is right, and then check that the lock to lock positions of the rack are mirror images of each other. Well funny thing i found out, there is no such teeth where they are exactly the same. So i left it where it was closest to mirror image and put the car back together.

the problem: When i put the car on the ground and drove off, i found out that in order to drive straight, the wheel has to be turned about 30 degrees right. That is with the original pull to the right in the first place. So today i raised the car again, and rotated the column over one tooth hoping to correct that. Well the problem is still there, except now the wheel has to be turned 40 degrees left to drive straight. Now, when the engine was out, i also replaced a dust boot on the left inner tie rod of the rack, which required me taking off the outer tie rod and possibly messed up the alignment.

the question: Can this problem be corrected by getting an alignment? eg, if i take it to the shop and tell them to get it aligned and tell them my wheel needs to be straight, will they be able to do that by doing their magic with the tie rods? Or do i have to rotate it one tooth backwords and give it ot them and hope for the best? I also noticed that the steering wheel has a tooth like system as well, so maybe i should go that way rotate the steering wheel so it sat straight? Or did i just miss a tooth when i rotated the steering column?

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks.

Salty_X · 03-29-2005, 09:19 PM

It can't be solved by an alignment, but it can be solved by a competent alignment shop, or by yourself really. The same thing happened to me when I replaced my rack, I tried to get it as close as possible to straight wheels & centered steering wheel, but once I put the car on the ground the steering wheel was off a little bit. Instead of doing all that crap over again I just put the wheels straight on the ground and repositioned the steering wheel, like what you're thinking of doing, and haven't had a problem with it.

If you have an aftermarket hub and it won't budge, rent a 3-jaw adjustable puller from your local car parts store, it'll save you a lot of energy.

Dousan_PG · 03-29-2005, 09:22 PM

take wheel off and put on straight
done! takes 10 minutes

Johny5 · 03-29-2005, 09:36 PM

10 minutes? not if you don't rock the almighty horn button. no need for the puller, i just gotta jiggle my hkb off, takes awhile but it gets easier each time.

Dousan_PG · 03-29-2005, 09:38 PM

oh yeah i forgot
i havent had a stock wheel in a car for almost 3 years
haha
ok for stocker definately more time
aftermarket? so fast
even w/ horn butotn on a aftermarket wheel its 10 mins
allen wrench of the bolts
rachet for the hub bolt
pop off
reverse steps
done and done

citizen · 03-29-2005, 11:47 PM

dont know if you guys know this but the rack has more travel to the right then left to the tune of half an inch, so maybe thats why you are having trouble centering it?

Kreator · 03-30-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by citizen

dont know if you guys know this but the rack has more travel to the right then left to the tune of half an inch, so maybe thats why you are having trouble centering it?

Yeah, thats the thing that confused me the most. No matter how we put the column in, there was always more rotation to one side then the other from the center position.

Thanks for advice guys, i'll try to rotate the steering wheel today. Whats the issue with the horn? Chilton's doesn't seem to mention anything about it...

Dream240 · 03-30-2005, 11:28 AM

Man, today is just my day!!! I've had almost every problem that you guys are posting!! Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.....

Well anyways, I hit a curb too, black ice, fog, and a stupid deisel driver that decided to try to drift his 40 ton piece of crap right in front of me....moving on....I replaced all the parts you mentioned with new ones, then what you do is put the car on ramps if you have them, if not, lift up both sides of the front of the car, that way both wheels are off the ground together. Then you simply straighten the steering wheel so the wheels point as straight to the front as they're going to get. Then you disconnect the steering knuckle which connects the column to the rack. Disconnect it on the racks's side, leaving it attached to the column. Also you should be laying under the car so your feet are pointing at the front bumper. Now before you pull the knuckle off, check the steering wheel as the car is now, with the wheels straight. Yours should be turn about 10-20 degrees to the right. Well you're going to want to rotate it to the left so pull the knuckle off carefully, try to make it so you know where it is before you pull it off, then simply rotate it counter-clockwise like you were turning the steering to the left. Try one notch at a time. keep checking the steering wheel to see where it sits once you reconnect the knuckle. Shouldn't take you more than two teeth on the knuckle before it's straight. That's how I solved the problem. Now if you're pulling still after you've done this and you know the steering wheel is straight with the wheels then it's you're alignment not the steering wheel.

Good luck hope this helps.

Kreator · 03-30-2005, 06:25 PM

Well steering wheel rotation makes abit more sense to me. Don't need to raise the car, plus i will have to take it off soon anyways since i got to replace the clock spring.

Anyway, i got stuck on that first bolt that you are supposed to take off. The one with the allen type bolt, but with a center rod sticking out making it impossible to take off without a special key. What should i do about it? Will a shop have a tool to take it off? Also, can i use a regular bolt when i install everything back?

Johny5 · 03-30-2005, 06:31 PM

its a tamperproof t-50 bit. napa auto parts can source you a small drill style bit, then you can use sockets to turn it. hth.

citizen · 03-30-2005, 07:12 PM

its not how the rack is placed in the housing, but rather that the inner tie rod stops are ddesigned diferently on each side. on the left side of the rack the stop is 1/2" inside the housing while the right side is i believe flush with the end.i was contemplating making a spacer to jam in the left side so i wouldnt hit my tie rod end on the driverside lca at lock, but its easy enough to just not put the wheel all the way over when turning.

Kreator · 03-30-2005, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johny5

its a tamperproof t-50 bit. napa auto parts can source you a small drill style bit, then you can use sockets to turn it. hth.

yeah, i figured out its one of the t style star shaped bits i needed, but the bolt has a rod sticking out in the middle making it impossible to put the t bit inside. Does that rod get pushed in? Or do I have to drill a hole in the bit to sit over that sticking out part?

edit: nevermind, found everything i needed.

03-29-2005, 08:36 PM	#1
Kreator Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MD Age: 41 Posts: 1,975 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	steering rack issue Preface: December 2003 - icy roads + me being stupid = car meets the curb. Nothing major, bent inner tie rod and messed up control arm. no biggie. But I decide to be stupid again. Doing it for the first i thought that i had to swap the whole power steering rack. So i did that. Now after the car got back on the road and had an alignment done, it still pulled to the right and in order to correct that motion the wheel always had to be turned a bit left. Now at that moment i thought we messed up and missed one of the teeth, but was too lazy to fix it. Fast forward to now: i just swapped my engine for a better condition one and while the engine was out, i decided to mess with the rack again, given it was really easily accessible. Now i don't know how you are supposed to get the rack centered, but what made sense to me was approximate what is right, and then check that the lock to lock positions of the rack are mirror images of each other. Well funny thing i found out, there is no such teeth where they are exactly the same. So i left it where it was closest to mirror image and put the car back together. the problem: When i put the car on the ground and drove off, i found out that in order to drive straight, the wheel has to be turned about 30 degrees right. That is with the original pull to the right in the first place. So today i raised the car again, and rotated the column over one tooth hoping to correct that. Well the problem is still there, except now the wheel has to be turned 40 degrees left to drive straight. Now, when the engine was out, i also replaced a dust boot on the left inner tie rod of the rack, which required me taking off the outer tie rod and possibly messed up the alignment. the question: Can this problem be corrected by getting an alignment? eg, if i take it to the shop and tell them to get it aligned and tell them my wheel needs to be straight, will they be able to do that by doing their magic with the tie rods? Or do i have to rotate it one tooth backwords and give it ot them and hope for the best? I also noticed that the steering wheel has a tooth like system as well, so maybe i should go that way rotate the steering wheel so it sat straight? Or did i just miss a tooth when i rotated the steering column? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. __________________ кто болеет за Зенит, у того всегда стоит!

03-29-2005, 09:19 PM	#2
Salty_X Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Modesto Posts: 1,221 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	It can't be solved by an alignment, but it can be solved by a competent alignment shop, or by yourself really. The same thing happened to me when I replaced my rack, I tried to get it as close as possible to straight wheels & centered steering wheel, but once I put the car on the ground the steering wheel was off a little bit. Instead of doing all that crap over again I just put the wheels straight on the ground and repositioned the steering wheel, like what you're thinking of doing, and haven't had a problem with it. If you have an aftermarket hub and it won't budge, rent a 3-jaw adjustable puller from your local car parts store, it'll save you a lot of energy. __________________

03-29-2005, 09:22 PM	#3
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 46 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	take wheel off and put on straight done! takes 10 minutes __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

03-29-2005, 09:36 PM	#4
Johny5 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx Age: 40 Posts: 3,221 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	10 minutes? not if you don't rock the almighty horn button. no need for the puller, i just gotta jiggle my hkb off, takes awhile but it gets easier each time. __________________ www.stewartleask.com

03-29-2005, 09:38 PM	#5
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 46 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	oh yeah i forgot i havent had a stock wheel in a car for almost 3 years haha ok for stocker definately more time aftermarket? so fast even w/ horn butotn on a aftermarket wheel its 10 mins allen wrench of the bolts rachet for the hub bolt pop off reverse steps done and done __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira

03-29-2005, 11:47 PM	#6
citizen Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,240 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: citizen Feedback Score: 0 reviews	dont know if you guys know this but the rack has more travel to the right then left to the tune of half an inch, so maybe thats why you are having trouble centering it?

03-30-2005, 11:28 AM	#8
Dream240 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Inland Empire, California Age: 46 Posts: 2,188 Trader Rating: (8) Feedback Score: 8 reviews	Man, today is just my day!!! I've had almost every problem that you guys are posting!! Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing..... Well anyways, I hit a curb too, black ice, fog, and a stupid deisel driver that decided to try to drift his 40 ton piece of crap right in front of me....moving on....I replaced all the parts you mentioned with new ones, then what you do is put the car on ramps if you have them, if not, lift up both sides of the front of the car, that way both wheels are off the ground together. Then you simply straighten the steering wheel so the wheels point as straight to the front as they're going to get. Then you disconnect the steering knuckle which connects the column to the rack. Disconnect it on the racks's side, leaving it attached to the column. Also you should be laying under the car so your feet are pointing at the front bumper. Now before you pull the knuckle off, check the steering wheel as the car is now, with the wheels straight. Yours should be turn about 10-20 degrees to the right. Well you're going to want to rotate it to the left so pull the knuckle off carefully, try to make it so you know where it is before you pull it off, then simply rotate it counter-clockwise like you were turning the steering to the left. Try one notch at a time. keep checking the steering wheel to see where it sits once you reconnect the knuckle. Shouldn't take you more than two teeth on the knuckle before it's straight. That's how I solved the problem. Now if you're pulling still after you've done this and you know the steering wheel is straight with the wheels then it's you're alignment not the steering wheel. Good luck hope this helps. __________________ Don't mess with my monkey...he's loaded.

03-30-2005, 06:25 PM	#9
Kreator Nissanaholic! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: MD Age: 41 Posts: 1,975 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well steering wheel rotation makes abit more sense to me. Don't need to raise the car, plus i will have to take it off soon anyways since i got to replace the clock spring. Anyway, i got stuck on that first bolt that you are supposed to take off. The one with the allen type bolt, but with a center rod sticking out making it impossible to take off without a special key. What should i do about it? Will a shop have a tool to take it off? Also, can i use a regular bolt when i install everything back? __________________ кто болеет за Зенит, у того всегда стоит!

03-30-2005, 06:31 PM	#10
Johny5 Post Whore! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dallas, Tx Age: 40 Posts: 3,221 Trader Rating: (9) Feedback Score: 9 reviews	its a tamperproof t-50 bit. napa auto parts can source you a small drill style bit, then you can use sockets to turn it. hth. __________________ www.stewartleask.com

03-30-2005, 07:12 PM	#11
citizen Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,240 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: citizen Feedback Score: 0 reviews	its not how the rack is placed in the housing, but rather that the inner tie rod stops are ddesigned diferently on each side. on the left side of the rack the stop is 1/2" inside the housing while the right side is i believe flush with the end.i was contemplating making a spacer to jam in the left side so i wouldnt hit my tie rod end on the driverside lca at lock, but its easy enough to just not put the wheel all the way over when turning.