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06-06-2005, 12:01 AM
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#1 |
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Post Whore!
 Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Abilene, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 6,428
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stealth paint
So, me and Citizen were debating the factual use of having stealth paint.
I argued that submarine paint would work correctly at difusing radiowaves, ie. police speeding radars. Citizen argues that radar difusing paint would not work. if anyone can give correct, and true input, it would be great appreciated. The conversation is pretty interesting, so please read up here. Start conversation --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Socheat Men: get marine-grade paint Socheat Men: fuck if you get sent to fed prison Socheat Men: Fuck the Man AnomalyApparent: wtf is marine grade paint asshole MjJStAnG: yah asshole Inuyasha2049: thats what i want to know MjJStAnG: explain Socheat Men: its the same kinda paint you use on a submarine dipshits MjJStAnG: and then Socheat Men: anti-detectable Socheat Men: ie. you can't get radar'd AnomalyApparent: ok dipshit i work on a boat and there isnt marine grade paint Socheat Men: regardless AnomalyApparent: dumbfuck Socheat Men: its not available to the public Socheat Men: reject MjJStAnG: u mean the same shit they put on the stealth bomber and it washed off on the first test flight in the rain, and they had to go back to the drawing boards Socheat Men: the only way to get it is to steal it Socheat Men: IF YOU WORK FOR THE MILITARY Inuyasha2049: i can get a rocket launcher.... MjJStAnG: can i go to walmart and steal it Inuyasha2049: my step dad has one MjJStAnG: my dad got a 10 percent discount at home depot cuz he used to be in army, MjJStAnG: does that count for anyting Socheat Men: There were a shitload of cases back a few years Inuyasha2049: im hungey Socheat Men: guys got busted for using submarine paint MjJStAnG: me too im goin to castle peac out nuccas Socheat Men: on their cars Socheat Men: sent to federal prison for a long time MjJStAnG: socheat save the rest of this chat for me so i can chek up on marine paint AnomalyApparent: so radar difusing paint MjJStAnG: peace out MjJStAnG has left the room. Socheat Men: yea Socheat Men: its got reflective microshards or whatever AnomalyApparent: just one thing Socheat Men: public can't get it S14DaytonaBeach: just get a laser jammer AnomalyApparent: they dont use radar under water you DUMBFUCK Socheat Men: they use SONAR Inuyasha2049: O.o Inuyasha2049: sonar is cool Socheat Men: SONAR works just liek radar Socheat Men: you send out a beam Inuyasha2049: it makes noise Socheat Men: wait for it to reflect back AnomalyApparent: a SOUND WAVE Socheat Men: gives you info Inuyasha2049: sonar works off of sound Inuyasha2049: it send out a sound S14DaytonaBeach: radar is radio waves AnomalyApparent: and submarins have special hull construction to help difuse the sound S14DaytonaBeach: sub paint is like dynamatte Socheat Men: read up on that radar difussing paint Socheat Men: and how about jetfighters? AnomalyApparent: multiple layers, i.e steel, foam composite whatnot S14DaytonaBeach: it don't work Socheat Men: do they beam down music into the water? Socheat Men: and wait to hear hootie and the blowfish back? Inuyasha2049: haha AnomalyApparent: yeah they play van halen through the sonar Socheat Men: do cops use SOUND? S14DaytonaBeach: most of the radar refection is from the glass Socheat Men: do they yell "HEY! IM A COP!" AnomalyApparent: cops use radar Socheat Men: and wait for it to come back? AnomalyApparent: and infrared S14DaytonaBeach: take out your front windshield Socheat Men: make your windshields a dull color AnomalyApparent: that doesnt work... Socheat Men: alot of people get out of tickets when cops use radar nowadays Socheat Men: cuz radar isn't a stable beam\signal Socheat Men: any kind of wave , radio, sound, etc, is the same AnomalyApparent: if window tint helped deflect radar then all ricers would never get speeding tickets Socheat Men: it bounces off things to give info Socheat Men: the faster it bounces back, the faster the car Socheat Men: okay, think about it AnomalyApparent: no Socheat Men: if your glass is SHINY, ti'll bounce light easy AnomalyApparent: go fucking take a refresher in physics douche Socheat Men: if your car is dull, it'll kind of difuse the signal, but it will get sent back AnomalyApparent: they are diferent types of waves in diferent mediums S14DaytonaBeach: sandblast your windshield AnomalyApparent: that might help actually Socheat Men: its liek a mirror Socheat Men: if iits a whole piece, all shiny Socheat Men: it'll reflect like no other AnomalyApparent: ok i have a question for you Socheat Men: if its shattered, and dull, the opposite AnomalyApparent: can you listen to radio in an office building? Socheat Men: i wouldn't know S14DaytonaBeach: no Socheat Men: i don't work in an office building AnomalyApparent: yes you do, dont evade the question AnomalyApparent: lets say a green house then AnomalyApparent: yes you can Socheat Men: how do you know i work at a office? AnomalyApparent: therefore we know radio waves travel through glass Socheat Men: i work at a hotel Socheat Men: okay, think about it Socheat Men: are glasshouses shiny? AnomalyApparent: and you are a moron as well, have any other thing you want to point out? thisboybeflossin: greeenhouses Socheat Men: okay, so infrared is able to go thru windows, right? Socheat Men: most kind of waves go thru windows Socheat Men: but they become dead, or less audible AnomalyApparent: and your point? Socheat Men: its like that with waves AnomalyApparent: and i dont believe glass affects radio waves Socheat Men: with certain surfaces, the signal is scattered AnomalyApparent: diferent materials affect diferent wavelengths Socheat Men: exactly AnomalyApparent: so making the glass a darker color isnt going to affect radio waves Socheat Men: different chemical compounds aid in deadening sound\waves Socheat Men: who said anythin about darker? AnomalyApparent: you said make it duller Socheat Men: by duller, i mean toemitting or reflecting very little light Socheat Men: look up dull Socheat Men: i didn't mean "get dark tint" AnomalyApparent: that's not gonna affect radio waves Socheat Men: i meant to make it less shiny, less reflective AnomalyApparent: because they are a diferent wavelength Socheat Men: say you shoot a laser at a mirror Socheat Men: it'll make a direct beam in the opposed direction Socheat Men: if you did that to a dull, non reflective mirror, in pieces, your guess at where the laser would be jsut asa good as mine AnomalyApparent: i could tell you exactly where the laser would be actually AnomalyApparent: so whats your point Socheat Men: you could assume whiich area it'd b at Socheat Men: but you wouldn't be right on the dot AnomalyApparent: no i wouldnt assume, because i could calculate where its gonna go Socheat Men: so, the radar wouldn't come back directly to the gun being pointed AnomalyApparent: angle of incidence and optical density of the material Socheat Men: as, since there are other cars around, chances are it'll reflect off them also AnomalyApparent: radar or laser choose one AnomalyApparent: you're confusing the issue by adding in more variables S14DaytonaBeach: http://www.beltronics.com/lp905.html AnomalyApparent: stick to one thing Socheat Men: aren't we talkin about reflection? AnomalyApparent: thats what you are talking about Socheat Men: reflection deals no just with bouncy surfaces Socheat Men: its like saying cars are only engines and wheels AnomalyApparent: and whats your point? Socheat Men: other variables come into play when you talk about things as complexed as reflection AnomalyApparent: reflection isnt complex, unless you've never studied it Socheat Men: the basic "BillyBob" explaination is "if its a flat 180degree surface, it'll reflect the opposite degree" Socheat Men: are there any parts on your car body thats exactly 180degrees? AnomalyApparent: yes actually Socheat Men: and damn you DB, you didn't actually post HOW it works AnomalyApparent: any spot on your car can be perpendicular to a laser depending ion the angle of incidence AnomalyApparent: and i can tell you how that thing works Socheat Men: there are few parts on your car that are 180degrees on a T in comparison to the rest of the auto body AnomalyApparent: it sends out a a beam with the same wavelength of the laser and they either cancel eacher other out or amplify each other depending on the phase AnomalyApparent: again whats your point Socheat Men: say youv'e got a convexed trunk Socheat Men: reflection wouldn't work the same AnomalyApparent: yes it would Socheat Men: explain miss AnomalyApparent: the only thing that matters is angle of incidence and optical density to any one point on the trunk Socheat Men: no it wouldn't Socheat Men: you are simplifying this way too much AnomalyApparent: as long as one point on the trunk is around 90 degrees to the source of the beam it will get reflected back Socheat Men: you just proved yourself wrong AnomalyApparent: how so Socheat Men: you stated earlier that if ti was convexed, it'd still beam the same way back AnomalyApparent: thats what i just said Socheat Men: now you jsut say "if theres a part thats 90degrees, it'll work" AnomalyApparent: thats what i just said Socheat Men: think about it Socheat Men: look up convexed AnomalyApparent: i know what it means Socheat Men: it reflects things and captures things differently Socheat Men: am i right? AnomalyApparent: no Socheat Men: wtf Socheat Men: explain convexed then AnomalyApparent: just as long as any ONE point or area on the trunk is perpendicular to the source of the beam it will get reflected back AnomalyApparent: convex curved outwards Socheat Men: explain convexed throughoutly AnomalyApparent: thats what it means Socheat Men: thouroughly* Socheat Men: okay, now explain how it reflects, and refracts AnomalyApparent: Having a surface or boundary that curves or bulges outward, as the exterior of a sphere. AnomalyApparent: direct from the dictionary asshole Socheat Men: okay, now if you beamed a wave at a ball Socheat Men: would it come back to you? Socheat Men: no AnomalyApparent: in regards to a mirror, a lens, a random piece of wood what Socheat Men: it'd beam in a different location AnomalyApparent: you did see what i said Inuyasha2049 has entered the room. AnomalyApparent: JUST AS LONG AS ANY ONE POINT OR AREA ON THE THING IS PERPENDICULAR TO THE SOURCE OF THE BEAM IT WILL REFLECT BACK AT IT AnomalyApparent: read it, live it, learn it Socheat Men: ONE POINT AnomalyApparent: it doesnt matter what the shape is Socheat Men: now if you had that special paint Socheat Men: which is microparticles of metallic shards, you wouldn't have to deal with that Inuyasha2049: cuz it would absorb the beam? AnomalyApparent: there aint nothing you can do to totally absorb the beam Socheat Men: not absorb, weaken Inuyasha2049: ok well distort the beam Socheat Men: there you go AnomalyApparent: it doesnt distort the beam Socheat Men: it changes it direction AnomalyApparent: no it doesnt Socheat Men: read up on difusing paint Inuyasha2049: i think the only way to find out for sure is to try it out Socheat Men: the kind submarince use AnomalyApparent: you read up on physics AnomalyApparent: they dont use difusing paint Socheat Men: you didnt' even know about it Socheat Men: you tard Socheat Men: read up on it Inuyasha2049: poo!!!!!!!!!! Inuyasha2049: :-D Socheat Men: research the cases of incidence Socheat Men: then come back AnomalyApparent: they use special construction and coatings to help difuse sound waves Socheat Men: you idiot, PAINT! Socheat Men: DO COPS USE SOUND? AnomalyApparent: no they dont Socheat Men: GET THAT THRU YOUR HEAD Socheat Men: NO! AnomalyApparent: so what IS YOUR POINT Socheat Men: THEY USE RADIOWAVES Inuyasha2049: .drama sucks Socheat Men: IT DOESN'T HAVE TO DIFUSE, IT JUST HAS TO DEFLECT THE SIGNAL AND REROUTE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AnomalyApparent: THAT DOESNT HAPPEN Socheat Men: OKAY, LEMME EXPLAIN SUBMARINE PAINT Socheat Men: ITS NOT SOLID COLORPIGMENTS TO GIVE NICE CLEAN SHINY AnomalyApparent: tell me in you ALL KNOWING ALL SEEING jackass AnomalyApparent: how does color affect sound again? Socheat Men: ITS MICROPARTICLES OF METALLIC SHARDS, INTO A CHEMICAL COMPOUND Socheat Men: IN TERMS OF REFLECTING SOUND, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN Socheat Men: BUT WHEN IT COMES TO REFLECTING RADIOWAVES, IT DOES AnomalyApparent: all waves observe the same laws Socheat Men: yes, but other variables change things up AnomalyApparent: no Socheat Men: in terms of cars, other obstructions AnomalyApparent: in terms of you dont know jack and are trying to formulate a scapegoat for your lack of understanding Socheat Men: omg Socheat Men: you are an idiot Socheat Men: tahts like saying, if i aim at his head iwht a gun, it will hit him Socheat Men: even if there are walls and stuff in the way AnomalyApparent: depends on the types of walls Socheat Men: STONE WALLS AnomalyApparent: you could have those crazy japanese paper walls Socheat Men: CONCRETE WALLS Socheat Men: PEOPLE AnomalyApparent: depends on how buig a gun you are using Socheat Men: now you are just being stupid Socheat Men: you were just proven wrong AnomalyApparent: how was i proven wrong? Socheat Men: and you said variables don't count Socheat Men: y are you tryin "if you had a big gun" Socheat Men: or "if the walls are paper thin" AnomalyApparent: this was a diferent situation disregarding waves, and i believe those were valid points Socheat Men: http://science.howstuffworks.com/laser.htm Socheat Men: read that Socheat Men: you'll learn how lasers work Socheat Men: then look up radar Inuyasha2049 has left the room. AnomalyApparent: i know how a laser works S14DaytonaBeach: http://www.radarbusters.com/products/coatings/veil.asp Socheat Men: lasers are built to obtain better consistancy, less room for error AnomalyApparent: in fact i could tell you without looking at that Socheat Men: read that sir AnomalyApparent: radar works by causing a cascading photon release from a gas by electricaly exciting them and then focusing the photons so that when they exit the chamber they form a paralell cohesive beam thisboybeflossin: damn thisboybeflossin: sitll talking about that? thisboybeflossin: shesh Socheat Men: read that FAQ Socheat Men: you are strange... AnomalyApparent: i highly dont that shit works s14 Socheat Men: and you base that opinion on what? AnomalyApparent: on basic physics and my bullshit sense Socheat Men: give everyone an indepth summary of y you believe that wont' work AnomalyApparent: i've already explained it AnomalyApparent: and my bs sense says they dont have any scientific tests Socheat Men: you jsut said if its a flat surface Socheat Men: it'd reflect Socheat Men: now if it had texture also, would that work as well Socheat Men: ? AnomalyApparent: it doesnt matter what the surface is as long as any one point or area is perpendicular to the angle of incidence Socheat Men: VARIABLES RETARD AnomalyApparent: can you prove im a retard? Socheat Men: you are talkin out of our ass Socheat Men: say its "flat" AnomalyApparent: and AnomalyApparent: you paint it with some shit, its still flat Socheat Men: but has metallic shards compounded into the paint AnomalyApparent: metallic shards of what? ubotanium? S14DaytonaBeach: My oakles have that Socheat Men: do you think im the creator of the paint retard? Socheat Men: reflective metal shards AnomalyApparent: which happen to not work? Socheat Men: a shitload of shards will pwn that beam like hell AnomalyApparent: such scientific and thoughtful language AnomalyApparent: are you a professor or something? Socheat Men: okay, read up on that submarine paint AnomalyApparent: i dont need to Socheat Men: nope, your average everyday kid AnomalyApparent: and as an average everyday kid you dont know what you're taling about Socheat Men: and you are the expert? AnomalyApparent: it would seem that i know more than you Socheat Men: how about we post this up on zilvia, and have some folks that actually deal with military give their knowledge Socheat Men: right... AnomalyApparent: i never claimed to be an expert Socheat Men: "if there is a flat surface, it'll work" AnomalyApparent: how about you give it to a physics prof and see what they say Socheat Men: now the variables include the surface itself thisboybeflossin: surface must be flat Socheat Men: reflective index AnomalyApparent: unless the sufrace converts the energy from the beam into something else its gonna be reflected Socheat Men: now if you had those metal shards in the actual paint thisboybeflossin: what is green? Socheat Men: the signal would be distorted AnomalyApparent: WRANG AnomalyApparent: you dont fucking trandsuce waves with "little metal shards in paint" AnomalyApparent: transduce Socheat Men: okay, now if it was 100% proven, wouldn't you wanna keep that HUSHHUSH? AnomalyApparent: if what was "100% proven" thisboybeflossin: haha AnomalyApparent: that you dont have a clue? AnomalyApparent: that you didnt pay attention in physics? Socheat Men: that it would officially allow you to "stealth" your car AnomalyApparent: THAT DOESNT WORK Socheat Men: and how do you know? Socheat Men: have you used it? AnomalyApparent: there is NOTHING that is complete stealth to radar Socheat Men: hve you compared with a cop? thisboybeflossin: that is some dubm thigns they sell on there Socheat Men: no one says its completely stealth AnomalyApparent: aint nothing you can do to get its radar crosssection low enough to wear it would be undetectable Socheat Men: it would wear down the beam thisboybeflossin: GOOGLE Socheat Men: to not have 100% consistancy Socheat Men: therefore, it wouldn't be 100% accurate AnomalyApparent: again wtf are you talking about Inuyasha2049: i could ask my step dad Socheat Men: ask him Inuyasha2049: ok Socheat Men: lets post this on zilvia Socheat Men: whats your zilvia handle? AnomalyApparent: citizen Socheat Men: as per DB's request, lets search first Inuyasha2049: sorry....there is no way of stopping the radar AnomalyApparent: go search and come back when you've learned something AnomalyApparent: what is your step dad btw? Inuyasha2049: lt Inuyasha2049: a cop Inuyasha2049: LT AnomalyApparent: ok Inuyasha2049: but yea Socheat Men: search up those federal arrests on behalf of the government AnomalyApparent: snopes.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- End conversation (BTW, this is in the ZilviaOnlyChat) Last edited by S14DB; 06-06-2005 at 12:30 AM.. Reason: removed all the chatter |
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06-06-2005, 12:11 AM
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#3 |
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Nissanaholic!
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Marietta Georgia
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After I read submarine paint, I read no more. Flat black is good for avoiding radar. One of the radars. The other radar uses Doppler effect where it uses sound frequencies from your car to tell what speed your running at, which basically means your shit out of luck whether or not your using submarine paint.
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06-06-2005, 12:18 AM
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Zilvia FREAK!
 
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cliff notes: my argument
1. only thing that matters is angle of incidence to the object. as long as any one point or area of the object is perpendicular to the source of the beam (wave, flying gopher) it will get reflected back towards it 2. there isnt anything you can do to passively absorb 100% of radar, or laser or any kind of wave 3. "submarine paint" would apparently be used to lower the amplitude of sound waves (seeing as how submarins use sonar) not radar or a laser beam 4. sochbat is retarded 5. pomona is the anus of california |
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06-06-2005, 12:34 AM
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#6 | |
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Post Whore!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Abilene, TX
Age: 39
Posts: 6,428
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Quote:
1) Specialized paint can deflect/distort radarwaves. 2) While surface may be flat, texture isnt' going to just be disregarded 3) I never said it would completely 100% absorb/distort/alter the wave 4) Do jetfighters play music to detect subs, and wait to hear Hootie&The Blowfish before shooting? 5) Namecalling results in his ego being attacked, and harmed, therefore reducing his logical thinking to that of an Elementary schoolyard student. |
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06-06-2005, 12:53 AM
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#9 |
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Nissanaholic!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I did not realize that Sochbat made this thread. I like him, he's cool so keep the flame suits in the closet. But Sochbat, there is more then one type of radar. I past a DMV cop (clocking people on the side of the highway) going over 100 in my flat black 240. I thought I was done, but he couldnt get a good reading(reflection). If he had a radar that tells the speed by the sound frequency your car emits, I would be in court right now.
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06-06-2005, 01:00 AM
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#10 |
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Post Whore!
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Abilene, TX
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Posts: 6,428
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I know that they've got different types of radars now. They used to use the typical radar waves, but found that if someone researched enuff, brought enuff physics evidence, etc etc, they could get off the ticket, for its invalid reading. (ie, radars work on bouncing, so if you are near a bigrig, or something, chances are that it was bounced off that too). They've now got laser beams for higher accuracy, etc etc etc. My chickfriend's bro is a CHP officer, and he was shooting the laser at us running like idiots. My fastest run was at like, 13mph.
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06-06-2005, 01:05 AM
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#11 |
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Nissanaholic!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I think that is why the Phaser is dissapearing from the back of mag's now. They must of paid for too many peoples tickets, if anyone knows what I mean.
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06-06-2005, 01:07 AM
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Leaky Injector
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what paint distorting radiowaves? no way. i just dont believe it. and if it still does, doesnt speed radar shoot laser to measure the speed. i dont no much about it but still i dont think paint can do that.
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06-06-2005, 01:08 AM
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#13 |
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Post Whore!
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
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First of all you won't get rid of tickets with anything. The stealth planes and other such objects use shapes to make their radar signature SMALLER. Our planes aren't invisible to radar. They just have such a small signature they're disregarded. Also, it depends on the level of technology available to the people trying to detect the said object. In any case your car will still suck at avoiding tickets because of it's shape. Even if you dump assloads of "sub paint" on it.
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My 240 vBgarage |
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06-06-2005, 01:16 AM
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#14 |
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Post Whore!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Taking shape, etc etc into consideration, the paint would reduce your chances of being detected significantly, IMHO.
Anyone remember a few years back when those guys got sent to Fed. prison for stealing aircraft/military-grade paint? |
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06-06-2005, 01:26 AM
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#15 |
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Post Whore!
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If you steal anything from the military you are going to be in deep shit. Weather it's radar absorbing or not. Also, if you won't listen to anyone then why are you asking opinions. Just post pictures of your sister! HAHAHAHAHAHA.
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06-06-2005, 01:30 AM
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#16 |
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Post Whore!
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Hahahahha, i am actually listening, or reading what everyone has to say, and taking it into consideration. Think of my messages as... another reason to bump it.
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06-06-2005, 04:08 AM
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Zilvia FREAK!
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SOCHBAT IS ONLY TRYING TO BRING UP HIS POST COUNT!! YES, MY BROTHER IS A LOSER!!!!!
 And who cares about ur stupid submarine paint. Talk about it when i see it in our garage!!! And Citizen, POmona is not the Anus of California. Sure my brother is a retard, but it seems as if you were getting butthurt from the argument. Man u two argue like girls! And just so you two know. WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT THE DAMN SUBMARINE PAINT AND REFLECTIONS!!!! WASTED SPACE!!!
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If you dont know SEARCH!!! 
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06-06-2005, 04:15 AM
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#20 |
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Zilvia Addict
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sorry broken_s13 i love u man but one, he just said pomona is the anus of california and two "POST PICTURES OF YOUR SISTER!" thats my girls friend you brain dead hic. and pomona is that anus of california it rather be here than there where brothers do their sisters and the sisters cheat on them with civic drivers.
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Just Drive! 
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06-06-2005, 04:31 AM
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Zilvia Member
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Quote:
First of all, your as retarded as Socheat is just because you actually wasted time and agrued with him over such a stupid topic. I actually dont know anything about the bay area and im not trying to make any enemies from there. But calling Pomona what you did seemed like u were just trying to make yourself feel better because you havent had sex in a long time and you were caught masturbating to your moms old nudy pics that she sent to your dad when he was locked for molesting you and your cat.   |
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06-06-2005, 06:35 AM
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#26 | |||||
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BANNED
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Quote:
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p.s. ships use SONAR not RADAR. HINT HINT. |
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06-06-2005, 07:03 AM
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#27 | |
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Yes, I look like that
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Quote:
I don't know shit about submarines, I never went to school for anything related to that, but that does nothing to steer me away from the common sense-fueled feeling that paint has to be the dumbest idea anyone has ever pulled out of their ass to get around being clocked. |
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06-06-2005, 08:17 AM
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#28 |
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Nissanaholic!
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IIRC Ka band radar is the one that uses the Doppler effect
X and Y band are standard redar systems and then you also have Laser which is fast and very accurate but doesn't funciton well in Rain, or heavy fog also Laser needs a rather flat surface (police using laser are taught to aim for your plates) which is why most laser diffusers (jammers) mount around your plate or near the center of the fron of your car. You can reduce radar cross seciton for X and Y band radar units both of those types of radar waves can transmit unhindered through fiberglass, CF and urethane so the area of reflection on a car with non metallic body work on the front end will be reduced signifigantly also with the metallic pieces all at odd angles and nonstandard shapes the odds of getting a clean lock on speed are signifigantly diminishied
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06-06-2005, 08:45 AM
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#29 |
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Zilvia Junkie
 
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and i thought this would be about the military testing out invisibility. I heard stories of soldiers they tested it on, they appear and disappear. Damn i love sci-fi.
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06-06-2005, 08:54 AM
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#30 |
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Zilvia Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Lansdale, PA
Age: 44
Posts: 205
Trader Rating: (0)
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
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So how soon is it before someone releases this body kit...
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R/T Tuning |
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