Ebay / TCS multi-link snapped rod ends *pics*

[bing]

this was ebay-style, TCS multi-link

the guy is a buddy of mine and these were used for less than one full year, he got them just before this past summer.

stay away from cheapo multi-link

there are other companies selling this same gear that under different names that i wont mention.

beware

[m0rex]

Dang that sucks. Your whole suspension looks like its about to break off though. Rust owned you.

[andrewmp6]

thats why i wont buy ebay knock offs

[ThatGuy]

Originally Posted by bing

stay away from cheapo multi-link

Originally Posted by andrewmp6

thats why i wont buy ebay knock offs

+1 billion and then some.

[MELLO*SOS]

Originally Posted by m0rex

Dang that sucks. Your whole suspension looks like its about to break off though. Rust owned you.

Looks like the rust took its toll on the weakest link.

Thanks for sharing

[Sean1978]

wow... another single occurance epidemic!!!

guess what? I had a friend, his SR20DET EXPLODED!!!!

DON'T BUY SR20DET's THEY ARE GARBAGE!!!!

hey, if you guys want to spend 3 to 4 times the price on metal chunks than go ahead. This reminds me of the "wheel spacers are all garbage" or "turbo manifolds all need to be expensive" threads. I'll bet 99 people could chirp in that all have parts like this working fine.

Fact of the matter is that people don't post thread rants for things that work. I have never seen a "OMG MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS" tread because people only tend to post when things crap out...



btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I'll bet that northern canadian winter rust had something to do with it also...

[bing]

actually i know several people who have had this happen



this is what it will look like before it snaps.

the rod ends are not meant for automotive use my friend. no matter what way you slice it, they are inappropriate...

just because yours havent snapped yet doesnt mean that they are perfectly fine. driving habits and environment play a big part as well.

[!Zar!]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

wow... another single occurance epidemic!!!

guess what? I had a friend, his SR20DET EXPLODED!!!!

DON'T BUY SR20DET's THEY ARE GARBAGE!!!!

hey, if you guys want to spend 3 to 4 times the price on metal chunks than go ahead. This reminds me of the "wheel spacers are all garbage" or "turbo manifolds all need to be expensive" threads. I'll bet 99 people could chirp in that all have parts like this working fine.

Fact of the matter is that people don't post thread rants for things that work. I have never seen a "OMG MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS" tread because people only tend to post when things crap out...



btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I'll bet that northern canadian winter rust had something to do with it also...

That is bs. It has been PROVEN that the cheaper metals and quality control of e-gay style parts arn't up to par as other name brand companies. Not to say that there are people who have it; PHILIP does if I recall. Cheap turbo manifolds... haha be my guest. The fitment is pretty bad most of the time and the porting looks like someone took a hamster and a 3yr old to massage the ports. They are highly likely to crack if not ceramic coated.
Wheel spacers? If you are talking about an H&R knock off, I would be afraid the studs would snap off. If you are talking about the metal spacers ie. the 7mm 12mm..ect. that you slap on before you put you wheel on. I'd never run those if someone paid me.
Verdict is, stfu and contribute something. Instead of spitting babble. Cheap parts = short life span, and that could be your car or your life.

[bing]

i had Touge Factory spacers and they almost killed me..

the bolts they provided as studs melted on the highway.... the provided lugs literally ripped the threads right off.

[drift freaq]

Bing those came off ebay right? Where they marked TCS? Are you a hundred percent sure they were TCS. Reason I ask is because I know a lot of drifters here in socal running TCS control arms for 2 years plus and no problem. Plus I have never seen a TCS control arm in that color.
Your post is a touch inflammatory. See Rust and extreme weather can kill any exposed metal. Thats a chemical and physical fact.
Also TCS does not even run those type of rod ends these days and have not for a long time.
I do not sell TCS but I know people that do and lots of people running them with no problems. You show us pics of a unlubed rusted corroded piece and you expect it not to fatigue , rust and possibly break. That stuff is being exposed to extreme conditions on top of that its not even technically stuff that should be used on a street car. I know a lot of people do but guess what most of the manufacturers do not say bolt these on your cars use them in daily driving. They are a item designed for track use. i.e. race cars.

I think you need to use a little common sense here.
People you bolt stuff on your car designed for track use do not expect it to last or act like stock factory stuff. Its race!! There is a reason why everything you buy for a race car has no implied warranty beyond manufacturing defects. They know its going to be pushed hard and may fail or get broken.
You see Formula one cars break control arms. Yes it happens!

[gearhead290]

It's one thing to buy an "ebay" exhaust, it's kinda hard to die if it fails. But, when it comes to something that could be a safety concern than I guess your life is only as valuable as your willing to spend. After all, what if it fails while you're playing around on a mountain road, and then you lose control and drive off the side of the mountain.

The heim joint has surface rust, but ALMOST all metal will. It doesn't appear to me that rust would be the cause of the break, more like a weak metal. You guys are talking about how his control arms and stuff have rust on them, but any car that is driven in a snowy/harsh climate is going to have that. I have seen 2 year old chevy trucks with a worse looking undercarage than his car. Not to mention I have yet to see a local S13 with an underbody that's that clean.

Personally, SPL linkage for the win.

[theicecreamdan]

show a better picture of the threaded portion that broke, I think you will see that rust did not play much of a role in that snapping. Looks like some rust on the surface. The diameter of the threaded portion on that rod end is not thick enough, its not even close to the size of the bolts that hold that part onto the subframe. whatever brand that was it isnt good enough for a street car, let alone a track car.

He wasn't posting here to whine and complain about nobody warrantying the product, its just a post showing that "ebay suspension" is not the quality that people should trust their lives with.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by theicecreamdan

show a better picture of the threaded portion that broke, I think you will see that rust did not play much of a role in that snapping. Looks like some rust on the surface. The diameter of the threaded portion on that rod end is not thick enough, its not even close to the size of the bolts that hold that part onto the subframe. whatever brand that was it isnt good enough for a street car, let alone a track car.

you are possibly right dan, though I still stand by my statement. Unless he can prove unequivocally that it is a TCS product he should not be saying it is. Like I stated. I have seen TCS control arms in fact I have seen their whole run. Yes I have friends that sell them. They never came in that color. No one I know has even had a problem like that with TCS control arms. These are people that are drifting hard on them in competition. Formual D!! Drift Days !! etc..

The only reason I am posting in this thread, is because the thread starters post is a biased inflammatory, accusational and bordering libelous post. Until he can prove that the product is what he claims he should not be making those accusations from a legal standpoint.

[Bryants95240sx]

Looks like it got owned by the salt/corosion. They whole suspension looks like its about to fall apart. Im sure glad i dont like in a climate like that. My car would never leave the garage.

[drift freaq]

Originally Posted by Bryants95240sx

Looks like it got owned by the salt/corosion. They whole suspension looks like its about to fall apart. Im sure glad i dont like in a climate like that. My car would never leave the garage.

which is what it looked like to me as well.

[MrSkinny]

Those aren't TCS. Theyre the Debluz or whatever ones from your ebay parts GB a while back. TCS ones are usualy silver and cost more than those ones. I've been running THAT same rucus on my S14 for my second canadian winter now and last i checked it was still intact and functioning fine.

My powertrix tc rods on the other hand failed when i kissed a curb. The joint fell out of the rod. screwed it back in, still going strong.

[Jefferson]

I don't think all ebay arms are garbage but i've never owned any knockoff suspension pieces. I have battle version ruca's just becuase I like the way they have finer threads to make mor accurate adjustments and also support one of our own

[bing]

I have had this arguement with others before on ziptied... in the interest of not bringing up old arguements i will omit the name of the companies branding some of these products, i will simply keep ebay and TCS here since i already called them out.



TC sportline:



EBAY



i will also say that the RUCA's in the first post and the ones i posted a pic of with the measuring tape were both imported by myself for resale in Canada from suppliers who are selling these arms under various names in various countries in various colours.

i asked for a different colour and i got bthis blue. you will find them in green, red, grey, chromed etc.

i could go deeper into this issue if you like, Dave Penkiw from Modified Mag and i discussed this at length and you can read the article starting on page 118 of their SEMA issue, DEC 2005. it has the red RSX on the cover from HKS. my blog is on page 121 i think, or something like that.

i used to import these and have since redesigned my own and have them made here in Canada by professional machinists and tradesmen whose company builds a variety of components for some of the biggest names i dirt-track, sport modified, and karting. Bicknell is oneof their primary customers.

we can absolutely discuss this at length if you wish.

and i would love to do so in a public forum such as this

[kuruptR]

the rust killed it

[$D$]

it was cheap metal, it takes longer than a year for metal to rust that much, i should know....

[OMGWTFBBQ]

obviously goes without saying to not cheap out on vital parts like that..
thx for the pics though...hopefully it will shed some light for the people who still wanna buy them anyway..

[bing]

i should reitierate that the arm in the first post has been in use for less than one year.

he had them on around summer time, this should reinforce that rust was not the issue and if it was it still doesnt excuse the rod end as being the culprit.

the second picture with the measruing tape was taken IN THE SUMMER, 2 WEEKS after install and you can see the rust on it. there was no rain between install and that picture. i remember it well.

[Sean1978]

the thread starters post is a biased inflammatory, accusational and bordering libelous post.

amen, maybe it would be more true if it was about the specific model, but there are like 50 types of these parts on ebay.

also, lots of things could have caused that. racecars (like these parts are designed for) are supposed to get a pre and post race inspection with checks for loose bolts and bent metal, these parts could have been shocked by something (hitting a pothole, wall, etc.) a few weeks before that bent and eventually caused them to fail. The rusty, non lubed joint could have not had proper travel and that could have caused the rod to BEND instead of PIVOT...

a coating of old motor oil can help keep the rust off..

[TurDz]

All of your suspension components were exposed to an EXTREME amount of corrosion, especially if that is what the RUCA looks like in just one year. I will quote what I wrote in the Apex'i exhuast rusting problem:

From what I know, corrosion such as what you described can happen to anyone. In general though, for something like that to happen, you need an environment that accelerates corrosion.

Do you live in a rainy or snowy area? is it ever humid? I see you live in North Carolina, so at the very least, you are more susceptible to acid rain and pollution from the west coast.

Anyway, what probably happened was a small rock chipped the coating on your exhuast canister. Once this happened, bare iron was exposed. With pollution, acid rain, road salt, etc, there are chlorides in the air. When this comes in contact with that small chip, it causes a corrosive barrier (a precipitate from the metallic ions) and covers that portion completely (think of a very corrosive positive battery terminal).

When this happens, you deprive that local site of oxygen, and it become an anode, or something that starts giving electrons away. These electrons go to something called a cathode (or an electron acceptor). The cathode becomes the complete exhaust canister portion that is not damaged. Unfortunately, when these electrons leave, you are left with many positive hydrogen ions. The chlorides in the air and water find their way into this local site, and form a very damaging acidic mix and metallic ions, which is what caused the decay to what it is now.

There is more info here if you are interested:
http://electrochem.cwru.edu/ed/encyc...-corrosion.htm

I hope that helps.

If you look at the website above, you will see that once corrosion starts locally, the danger is not in the surface area of the corrosion, but rather the depth. That particular threaded section you took a picture of most like exhibited pitting corrosion. It started at a small, local site, and once it was starved of oxygen, a chemical reaction took place and eventually worked into the metal, depth wise.

As you may know, all screws/bolts/studs, etc are not designed to fatigue or bend at all, and will result in failure if this happens. Since damage was probably done on just a small section, and as that small portion of metal (may not have been visible to the naked eye) was eaten away, forces on the joint would then cause fatiguing and bending moments on the theaded portion itself, which would cause the failure.

Another possibility could have been galvanic corrosion, which invloves two different metals with different (electrochemical) potentials. More info can be found on that website in the above quote.

The joint may also have failed due to the lack of range of motion in that ball joint. If indeed the eBay joints are "cheapo," the ball joint may have not had enough lubrication in it or lost its lubrication properties. Corrosion could then occur inside and cause it to seize up. can you still move the ball joint around?

Anyway, my main argument is the evironment had a major part in your suspension failure. The best thing to do is keep an eye on your suspension components, at least once a month. And if you see corrosion on the threads, especially to the extent of the one you pictured, they should be replaced immediately.

Good luck with everything, stay safe.

[Sean1978]

The joint may also have failed due to the lack of range of motion in that ball joint. If indeed the eBay joints are "cheapo," the ball joint may have not had enough lubrication in it or lost its lubrication properties

I lube my ball joints when I change my oil, is it a coincidence that mine haven't snapped?

[Wei240]

wish we had some engineering guru here that could help and test out (tensile?) strength of ebay parts and parts from larger companies that actually does r&d and uses good material,
i'm almost positive, most (some i'm sure are decent) of these ebay parts use cheaper material, metal pieces are not just metal pieces, the composition of it makes a big difference... not only that, i highly doubt most of these ebay parts have the same quality assurance/inspection/testing...
yes, rust, corrosion will fasten the process, but crappier materials will crap out faster...
the sad thing is that there are decent ebay parts out there every know and then, and then there are crappy ones that kinda knock offs and even worse, crappier ones come out that seem to be knock offs of knoc offs...

[FaLKoN240]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

btw, MY EBAY T/C RODS HAVE BEEN WORKING FINE FOR 2 YEARS!!!
(and they costed like 1/3 what the JDM stuff did)

I dunno if I could take advice from someone that says "costed"

[Sean1978]

I think that the problem here is that people replace there OEM soft suspension parts with complete solid suspension race parts and alot of time expect them to work the same way. I'll bet a stock nissan tension rod will completley outlast a solid spherical bearing unit from ebay even though the stock one is probably made from thinner weaker metal, what's the difference? OEM parts are powdercoated to resist corrosion and have soft, big rubber bearings that are designed for ride comfort and longevity. I think the problem here is a failure to properly lubricate and protect from the elements, also I wonder how often you checked for loose bolts on your solid suspension setup (that can cause a snapping effect that rubber can handle but solid sphereical bearings can not)

I dunno if I could take advice from someone that says "costed"

wow! I got PWNED!! someone otta flame me and insert a funny JPG. how "Zilvian" of you....

[TurDz]

Originally Posted by Sean1978

I think that the problem here is that people replace there OEM soft suspension parts with complete solid suspension race parts and alot of time expect them to work the same way. I'll bet a stock nissan tension rod will completley outlast a solid spherical bearing unit from ebay even though the stock one is probably made from thinner weaker metal, what's the difference? OEM parts are powdercoated to resist corrosion and have soft, big rubber bearings that are designed for ride comfort and longevity.

That is a very good point. I have spoken to a professor at my university who is deeply involved with Toyota and GM R&D, and he has said that OEMs (Japanese) suspension pieces go though rigorous testing for durability and longevity. Things like cyclic loading, different levels of impact, etc. Japanese companies generally have the design and test to failure attitude.

When you replace the compliant rubber bushings with solid spherical joints, you are exhibited about 10 times (quoted) the impact harshness on all suspension components. Whether or not it's eBay, if moderate corrosion has taken place, this impact will definately cause failure.

[Bryants95240sx]

Well regardless you get what you pay for. Im sorry to sound harsh but the neck on those are pathetic. and they couldnt handle the rust and corrosion. End of story. Buy quality parts next time and this wont happen.