need advice: turbo vs sr20

[shigitySxSe]

i have 1992 240 SX SE, and around 3 grand or so to spend towards it...im the only one in my town with a 240 and a little money to throw into it, and would be able to have any labor costs covered (by some friends and hook ups i have) who are willing to do it for free... just because of how much they love 240's and want to be be able to say theyve actually "done" the work on it. ANYWAY, i want some advice on what would be my best bet with my money, to turbo the ka or swap for a sr20? i have about 125,000 on the motor now, which is really clean...
what do you guys think?


thanks alot

[daredevildoug]

if i had three thousand dollars to fix up my 240, id definately through in a blacktop motor. you have to much miles on you KA to turbo it out. Go with the sr20det.

[mistaanime]

heh juss get sr20..and wit wuts left over..get some mods for it...heh

[brokenben]

deng. hasnt this topic been beaten to death? search.

[SimpleS14]

Either route YOU go.....$3000 may not be alot.

[AadosX]

Dude I have 8 grand and even it's not enough.

[Anubis]

buy some nice clothes and some pleasurable company

[mademan]

i would say buy some knowledge.. i'm the head of a financial consulting corporation and we are putting out a financial guide soon. It helps ordinary people learn how to create financial success. I suggest you invest your money and wait until you can get back the amount you put in, then use that money on your car.

[AadosX]

Heh, I've been doing that for a long time, where do you think I got this money from?

[brokenben]

Originally posted by anubis9228
buy some nice clothes and some pleasurable company

haha.. lets see... $3000 ....thats about 3000 strippers in TJ eh?

[90sr]

Well think about it like this decent motor $2500 including shipping freight, depending on exhaust you want to run thatll easily be 5 or $600 maybe more, then you want to replace the gaskets with new ones as i recetnly just found out, hehe, order like 10 oil filters thatll be like 100 bucks you dont need a FMIC right away it comes with a side mount, you need a boost gauge, air/fuel gauge, oil pressure/temp gauge, and water temp, if the motor doesnt come with a fuel pump then you have to order the walboro 255, most likely to start, a turbo timer and that should have your motor started n running a good low 14 high 13, and thats probly almost $3500 bucks to start and your not even close to done yet.

[knghtryde]

PM me. I can probably tell you how to turbo that KA and rebuild it with $3000 and you will be pushing about 220rwhp or more depending on how knowledgeable the people that are going to do the work for you are on KA's. I can easily break it down.

[LonePhantom]

If you've got the option and the cash go the blacktop SR20DET. The only thing you'll really need to do in stock form is not over-rev too much (the hydraulic lifters don't like it too much - there's plenty of torque lower in the reve range anyway) and make sure you change oil regularly (maybe every 3000 miles or 5000kms). I use a 5W 50 synthetic based oil oil and it goes quite nicely. Also use a performance engine treatment on oil changes to help clean up the lifters, etc.

[SimpleS14]

Originally posted by knghtryde
PM me. I can probably tell you how to turbo that KA and rebuild it with $3000 and you will be pushing about 220rwhp or more depending on how knowledgeable the people that are going to do the work for you are on KA's. I can easily break it down.

why not type it here?

[knghtryde]

Fine....

Like I said, this will only work if you have someone who can put do work for you for free or if you know how to do the work yourself. It worked for me because me and my brother do all the work for areselves.

Okay... Here's the list...

Ross Forged Pistons and total seal rings set at 9:1--- $590.00
(Stock is 9.6:1, and you don't need to replace the rods or crank because they will hold)

Rebuild gasket kit from nissan to to do the rebuild --- $132.00

Custom Build turbo manifold for a T28 ball bearing from a S15 Silvia SR20DET $250 - $350

Silvia 370cc injectors from Ebay $100.00
(The KA24DE ECU can utalize these injectors perfectly since the ECU is set to run 345 ccs even though the car only came with 255cc injectors)

High pressure fuel pump from ebay $100.00

T28 turbo from an S15 Silvia rebuilt off Ebay $300.00

Stock Sidemount intercooler from an S13 180sx/Silvia will all piping intact including recirculator valve $100 - $250

Electronic Boost Controller and Boost Gauge $250 - $500

Misc. Parts and expenses $250.00

Aqua Mist system from Ebay $400.00

This comes to a grand total of $2972.00 that's less than your $3000.00 budget and since you will be using total seal rings and an Aqua Mist system you will be able to boost around 16 to 17psi safely.

The Aqua mist System will keep the chamber kewl, the Total seal rings will also help with holding the boost. With this Exact Set up built properly and tunned properly you should be looking at anything between 220 to 270 rwhp if done correctly.

This set up is for the KA24DE only. There are many alterations that would need to be done to do a KA24E set up.

THIS IS WHY I DIDN'T WANT TO POST IT IN HERE BECAUSE THIS IS ONE LONG ASS POST.

[knghtryde]

Oh, and if you can scroung up enough extra money to get a Steal Head Gasket and an S15 intercooler core which is larger and will bolt up to the S13 intercooler brackets.

You will be able to get around 260-300 rwhp for under $4000.00 out of your KA24DE. This would beat spending $4000.00 for an SR20DET and only getting around what 190rwhp....

[mbmbmb23]

Originally posted by shigitySxSe
i have 1992 240 SX SE, and around 3 grand or so to spend towards it...im the only one in my town with a 240 and a little money to throw into it, and would be able to have any labor costs covered (by some friends and hook ups i have) who are willing to do it for free... just because of how much they love 240's and want to be be able to say theyve actually "done" the work on it. ANYWAY, i want some advice on what would be my best bet with my money, to turbo the ka or swap for a sr20? i have about 125,000 on the motor now, which is really clean...
what do you guys think?


thanks alot

You may even check into a CA18DET, they are (from what Ive seen) alot cheaper than an SR. They are probably harder to get parts for, but they are cheaper, more rare.....and can be built for high HP.

[mellojoe]

Originally posted by knghtryde
Fine....

Like I said, this will only work if you have someone who can put do work for you for free or if you know how to do the work yourself. It worked for me because me and my brother do all the work for areselves.

Okay... Here's the list...

Ross Forged Pistons and total seal rings set at 9:1--- $590.00
(Stock is 9.6:1, and you don't need to replace the rods or crank because they will hold)

Rebuild gasket kit from nissan to to do the rebuild --- $132.00

Custom Build turbo manifold for a T28 ball bearing from a S15 Silvia SR20DET $250 - $350

Silvia 370cc injectors from Ebay $100.00
(The KA24DE ECU can utalize these injectors perfectly since the ECU is set to run 345 ccs even though the car only came with 255cc injectors)

High pressure fuel pump from ebay $100.00

T28 turbo from an S15 Silvia rebuilt off Ebay $300.00

Stock Sidemount intercooler from an S13 180sx/Silvia will all piping intact including recirculator valve $100 - $250

Electronic Boost Controller and Boost Gauge $250 - $500

Misc. Parts and expenses $250.00

Aqua Mist system from Ebay $400.00

This comes to a grand total of $2972.00 that's less than your $3000.00 budget and since you will be using total seal rings and an Aqua Mist system you will be able to boost around 16 to 17psi safely.

The Aqua mist System will keep the chamber kewl, the Total seal rings will also help with holding the boost. With this Exact Set up built properly and tunned properly you should be looking at anything between 220 to 270 rwhp if done correctly.

This set up is for the KA24DE only. There are many alterations that would need to be done to do a KA24E set up.

THIS IS WHY I DIDN'T WANT TO POST IT IN HERE BECAUSE THIS IS ONE LONG ASS POST.

I like a lot of this. However...

I wouldn't go with a T28 turbo. Not on a 2.4L KA. I'd go something like a T-04. The exaust pulse on a 2.4L will spool the T-28 quickly, yes, but it will leave nothing to gain. A T04 turbo will take advantage of the full displacement of the KA. The stock KA has enough low-end grunt to make it through until the t-04 turbo kicks in (probably around 3400rpm) which is really where you want the turbo anyway. And you'll get much more out of the turbo.

Probably only need to boost 10psi and get 220whp.

If you are boosting 18psi on the KA, you should have a lot more hp on tap than just 220. I've seen KA-T's at 5psi at 205whp.

EDIT: and if you keep the boost down around 9-10psi, you wouldn't need that "Aquamist" setup. So, that will justify the price difference on the turbo.

... my $0.02.

[knghtryde]

You are right. That's why I said that it depends on tunning because I've seen a KA-T at 18 psi only push 240rwhp. It's all in doing it right. The setup I named using a T04 will give you close to 300+ power to the ground.

I myself perfer the T28 cause I love having the turbo on full spool from launch to finish. But that is just me.

But you are definately right.

My point was though, with less than what it would cost you to get an SR at 194rwhp you can have a 300rwhp KA-T fully rebuilt.

[mellojoe]

Originally Posted by knghtryde

You are right. That's why I said that it depends on tunning because I've seen a KA-T at 18 psi only push 240rwhp. It's all in doing it right. The setup I named using a T04 will give you close to 300+ power to the ground.

I myself perfer the T28 cause I love having the turbo on full spool from launch to finish. But that is just me.

But you are definately right.

My point was though, with less than what it would cost you to get an SR at 194rwhp you can have a 300rwhp KA-T fully rebuilt.

Agreed.

With a budget of only $3,000, I would go this route. Either turbo, depending on your personal preference.

If I had a little more, say in the $5,000 range, I would swap the SR, though. Only because it has more potential down the road if you plan on spending more money during the life of the project.

But, if you want between 230whp and 280whp as a max goal, then turbo KA is a great way to go.

[SimpleS14]

Newbie question: When it comes to changing the pistons and headgasket....is that a time consuming, but easy task? or is it a PITA, time consuming and very easy to fuck shit up?

[old_s13]

Originally Posted by knghtryde

Fine....
Silvia 370cc injectors from Ebay $100.00
(The KA24DE ECU can utalize these injectors perfectly since the ECU is set to run 345 ccs even though the car only came with 255cc injectors)
High pressure fuel pump from ebay $100.00
T28 turbo from an S15 Silvia rebuilt off Ebay $300.00
Aqua Mist system from Ebay $400.00

ebay is not a credible source especially not for pricing. 100 dollar injectors off of ebay huh? i have doubts about the above pricing AND the reliability.

- mike

[sykikchimp]

Originally Posted by knghtryde

Fine....

Like I said, this will only work if you have someone who can put do work for you for free or if you know how to do the work yourself. It worked for me because me and my brother do all the work for areselves.

Okay... Here's the list...

Ross Forged Pistons and total seal rings set at 9:1--- $590.00
(Stock is 9.6:1, and you don't need to replace the rods or crank because they will hold)

If your compression and leak down look good, you don't need either of these. If not so good, you don't need total seal rings. Get Altima KA rings. They work perfect. I've actually heard of some people having issues with the Total seal rings.

Rebuild gasket kit from nissan to to do the rebuild --- $132.00

Custom Build turbo manifold for a T28 ball bearing from a S15 Silvia SR20DET $250 - $350

T25 is WAY too small for the KA.

Silvia 370cc injectors from Ebay $100.00
(The KA24DE ECU can utalize these injectors perfectly since the ECU is set to run 345 ccs even though the car only came with 255cc injectors)

First the stock injectors are 270cc not 255cc. The ECU cannot utilize the larger injectors with the stock MAF. You will need either flashed ECU, Hacked MAF, or some sort of piggy back ecu, or full on stand-alone.

High pressure fuel pump from ebay $100.00

T28 turbo from an S15 Silvia rebuilt off Ebay $300.00

Again.. T25 or T28 both too small for the KA

Stock Sidemount intercooler from an S13 180sx/Silvia will all piping intact including recirculator valve $100 - $250

I think there are plenty of front mounts from older cars that you could get. The SR piping will not work for the KA, so that will have to be custom anyway. Starion intercoolers are common. You can get good intercoolers on ebay these days too. Some Volvo's also have good usable intercoolers.

Electronic Boost Controller and Boost Gauge $250 - $500

Misc. Parts and expenses $250.00

Aqua Mist system from Ebay $400.00

Aqua mist is absolutly not necessary on a budget system. Neither is the intercooler for that matter, but if you've got 3000 to work with..

This comes to a grand total of $2972.00 that's less than your $3000.00 budget and since you will be using total seal rings and an Aqua Mist system you will be able to boost around 16 to 17psi safely.

The engine stock can handle around 15psi on a T3/T4.. 16-17 psi on a t25 or a t28 and your just blowing hot air with a turbo out of it's efficency range and making no where near the HP #'s your claiming.


If you want some better info, do a search on "Junkyard turbo" or "Budget turbo" Lots of good cheap turbo ideas.

[knghtryde]

I'm just going by what I've done to my car, and I have dyno sheets to prove this. Of and the Stock ECU can go past the 270ccs that you are claiming on an OBD1 system. On the OBD2 systems they can't. Also, the stock injector size on the 91-93 KA24DE is not 270cc it is 255cc the 270cc where only used on the 96-98 KA24DE as far as I know....

If you wanna varify this, call JWT and ask them what size Injectors are used on which KA's and what amounts the ECU can properly allow.

[sykikchimp]

NO.. I own a 92' and have flow tested them myself a while back when I was diagnosing a power problem. They ARE 270cc stock injectors for every year. Even the 89-90 had 270cc injectors. They were top feed instead of side feed. please STOP talking out your ass.

IF you were to put larger injectors in your car, how would the ECU know that you did so? Magic? NO.. the ECU still thinks it's using 270's. SO, it keeps the same injector pulse width with the same quantity of metered air, but b/c you have a much larger injector, it flows FAR more fuel than the stock injector for the same pulse width (or the time the injectors is open for u) . Now your car is a rich pig, and you dump so much fuel you can't even get it to idle.

To the topic starter, I would recommend getting your KA checked out. If it's healthy, go for it. It'll produce more power for the same money an SR would cost. Just do your research.

[SimpleS14]

Originally Posted by 95KoukiS14

Newbie question: When it comes to changing the pistons and headgasket....is that a time consuming, but easy task? or is it a PITA, time consuming and very easy to fuck shit up?

[knghtryde]

You marked me as posting miss information then you should do your research. Call up any honda tuner and ask them what the ECU is actually programmed to run. Nissan programmed the ECU to run at anywhere from 310ccs to 325cc, but they only equiped the car with 255cc. You keep saying that you flow tested your injectors at 270cc. I've flow tested the KA24E injectors and I'm only getting 255cc. Also, look it up, in every nissan manual, repair guide, even the dealer will tell you that the injector size on the KA24E is 255cc not 270cc. You have the balls to report me for miss information then stop giving it yourself.

Second, depending on what you want from your car is going to be what size turbo you wanna run. And finally wtf do you mean you need a large MAF to run larger injectors. the SR20DET 370cc injectors I installed on my late S13 did not run rich.

The set up was a T3 turbo, on a 91 KA24DE, 370cc injectors, silvia side mount intercooler with custom piping, high pressure fuel pump at 10psi.

I did not have any idle problems, and actually I didn't have any problems what's so ever. The engine ran at 750rpms at idle, and excelerated perfectly fine.

Do your research before you start speaking. I'm talking from experiance. I've already built a KA24DET.

Have you ever had an idle problem with larger injectors, if so go read a book and learn to work on your car a little better.

[Advan]

Wow, I'm so glad I joined this forum. There's nothing than reading about tech parts and what gives more hp. Soaking up information, that I'll use later on. I like this thread.

Also, I feel bad for ya Kouki. Someone will answer it. heh.

[sykikchimp]

Since you obviously don't believe me..

Do yourself a favor, and do a quick search on this forum for "255cc" Wouldn't you think that if that was the stock injector size it would be mentioned all over the place??

You know what you get? 3 returns.. ALL OF THEM FROM YOU.

Now do a search on 270cc injectors? How many returns? 41.. spread across almost every respected member on this forum.

Still don't believe? Go to Freshalloy, and do the same search. How many do you return for 270cc? 100+

Now, how many for 255cc? 0

And what is a "high pressure fuel pump at 10psi." ?? that makes no sense whatsoever...

[sykikchimp]

And finally wtf do you mean you need a large MAF to run larger injectors.

I said:
"First the stock injectors are 270cc not 255cc. The ECU cannot utilize the larger injectors with the stock MAF. You will need either flashed ECU, Hacked MAF, or some sort of piggy back ecu, or full on stand-alone."

I did not say you needed a "large MAF"..

btw - just to clarify, you say you are using the STOCK ecu, with 370cc injectors? with a T3? What kind of T3? how much boost?