Ok, let's compare low end torque on the KA and SR

Well there's a lot of talk about the benefit of the SR swap and also a lot of talk about losing low end torque.
I wanna run stock boost for a while until i can afford the FMIC but am afraid of the loss of torque in stock trim.

if anyone has curves so that we can actually compare the two then that would be bad ass.

c'mon gurus!

[kitoro]

i find the SR has enough low-end torque. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>
S14 SR is what? 220hp, 200lbs/ft?
dunno what you've been told.
my friend gave me a ride in his S14 and it was fast... by the time the RPM meter hit 2000RPM, we were just CRUISING ... the torque kicks in pretty hard and fast IMHO... i had bruises to show for it. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>

his engine is relatively stock, save the fact that he has a slightly larger turbo than stock (but not much difference), the Injen CAI, some exhaust system (which has been modified now to a dual exhaust system, but i haven't ridden in it yet. <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'>)
there was still a lot of torque felt before he changed to a dual exhaust system.. i assume the dual exhaust system will drop the low-end torque a bit. but i dunno, haven't ridden in it as of late.

(Edited by kitoro at 9:26 am on Dec. 10, 2001)

Good to hear, i'm dropping in the SR for the added power but also my KA is 11+ yrs old and is getting tired (220 Km) so i'm looking for reliability. My buddy drives a Sentra and makes more horses with his SR-de than me but it feels like i have more low torque...
anyone else?

[DSC]

I think when ppl usually talk about the ka haveing more torque they are assumeing equal hp. If you built both engines up to 300whp, the ka would have a lot more torque, but I think (correct me if i'm wrong) stock for stock, the SR has more torque.

[whateverjames]

whenever i see the hp/tq ratings for a KA turbo i usually see 10-20 more pounds of torque than horsepower.

[Zenki Two40]

just always keep in mind that the ka was a truck engine so it needs that low end torque in case u were ever pullin' shit or doin' nething else a truck might do. an sr was designed to be a performance engine straight from nissan n has the #'s to prove it in a lot of situations.

anyone have any dyno charts for the stock silvias?

[Freak Leash 240]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from Zenki Two40 on 9:32 am on Dec. 10, 2001
just always keep in mind that the ka was a truck engine so it needs that low end torque in case u were ever pullin' shit or doin' nething else a truck might do. an sr was designed to be a performance engine straight from nissan n has the #'s to prove it in a lot of situations.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Not quite dude... the first car to feature the KA was the Stanza. It's not a &quot;truck&quot; engine, it's low-revving torque-happy engine <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>

[DSC]

Did they ever use the ka24de in a truck? &nbsp;just the ka24e or somethin like that right?

[kustom]

can we please stay on topic here?
I'd really like to see some opinions on this topic...

[240sxtreme]

KA-T vs. SR-T
KAT-<a href="http://son240sx.hn.org/adam/dynorun1.jpg" target='_blank'>http://son240sx.hn.org/adam/dynorun1.jpg</a>
SRT-<a href="http://www.imagestation.com/picture/p05671959e26b1a3ee3d3b6b5b5601e3a/fe5511ff.gif.orig.gif" target='_blank'>http://www.imagestation.com/picture....rig.gif</a>

also, the various models the KA went into are:
Stanza, Altima, Bluebird, the Datsun Pickup, Frontier, the &quot;hardbody&quot; pickup, Largo, and the R'Nessa

not sure what the difference between the &quot;Datsun Pickup&quot; and the &quot;Hardbody&quot; Pickup are...but their seperately listed in places...so I think that they are different. But the Stanza was the first usage....interesting note however, I was talking to a guy who races the s14 in the SCCA races, and he said that the engine isn't a truck engine because it's used in trucks, it's designed like a truck engine...something about the internals...can't quite remember. It's not the low-end torque...but the actual piston chambers...so we do have truck engines...so what, the viper shares it's engine with their trucks....and I went to the American Lemans races in 00, and in the program they talked about the Viper, they were using a modified engine taken out of their trucks! I figure if it's good enough for the Viper....fine with me eh?

(Edited by 240sxtreme at 6:34 pm on Dec. 10, 2001)

[mistert]

isnt the classic definition of a musclecar just a 2 door or family car with an engine made for a much weightier truck? I dunno, i like the torque curve of the SR just as much, and you can actually rev it up alot more, hence more power. it looks alot less peak with the torque, and more explosive with the HP in the upper range

[240sxtreme]

more revs don't mean more power. &nbsp;it just means that &nbsp;you have to be in higher revs before your power band kicks in. &nbsp; that's all. &nbsp;for some engines, they need that extra revs so that they can make up for the lack in torque...hence s2000. &nbsp;yet, take your muslecars for instance, lot of HP, more torque, LOW revs, and seriously fast....add that with good handling...and you would have a great &quot;sports&quot; car.

[mistert]

more revs DOES mean better power delivery at high speeds, considering hp = torque x rev / 5252, then yes, revs DO mean more power. thats how a honda makes power, it takes its weak torque and revs the engine up high until it makes enough power. same with alot of import engines. ever notice up the RB engines rev up to around 8000rpm? ideally you can make alot of torque and still rev high to make alot of top end power, like the RB, or the 2JZ-GTE

[gwong]

I have a KA24DET, and compared to the SR's I've encountered, my KA has ALOT more low end torque. &nbsp;On the flipside, the SR's pick up quite a bit of power towards the mid-upper end. &nbsp;I personally think my KA24DET's a great street car because of this, but in my opinion, the SR motor is better for racing.

[misnomer]

You can't simply claim revs means more power. The engine is only part of the equation. This isn't something I've really looked into specs on (basically, I don't know the gear ratio between the SR and KA trannies), but more revs on a car with a lower gear ratio simply would mean the higher reving engine would turn over quicker than the the lower reving one with the same power going to the wheels (assuming similar torque and hp curves). With this in mind, it's a poor generalization to state a higher-reving car will have better power delivery. With some cars, it may be true, but it can't really be used to generalize all cars.

It'd be great to have a car with great low end and top end power. Here is the only real place where more revs will give you a consistent advantage. You'd be able to get great performance off the line with a higher gear ratio, letting you reach higher speeds in all gears.

[240sxtreme]

here's a question....if the KA was a KA24DET, or the SR20 was only NA from the factory....would we still be debating which one is a better motor? &nbsp;

[Kid Zelda]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote: from 240sxtreme on 2:36 pm on Dec. 11, 2001
here's a question....if the KA was a KA24DET, or the SR20 was only NA from the factory....would we still be debating which one is a better motor? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Yes, people would make the SR20, a DET and we would debate! &nbsp;

Thats how its done in the 2 double 0 one

[DSC]

I don't think anybody would bother doing the swap if we already had a turbo, but we'd still debate which was better <img src="http://www.zilvia.net/f/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'> Or do you mean if we got the sr20de stock and the ka24det was the jdm engine?

[MingMing]

he jsut wants to know what engine's a better base to turbo off of

pretty much i'd say the kade seeing as how the torque for its hp was 20 higher, if the kadet was boosted up to have the same hp as the sr20det then it would probably have even more torque
keep in mind,
if a tiny sr20 could handle enuff boost to make it have that much hp, a kadet with the same work done to it to handle the same boost would have even more power cuz of its .. lessee.. 20% bigger displacement?

[Kid Zelda]

yes thats what I mean.

Its a never ending topic, always be debate over this...you know why...cuz we all have .........preferences &nbsp; NUFF SAID!!

(Edited by Kid Zelda at 4:20 pm on Dec. 11, 2001)


(Edited by Kid Zelda at 4:21 pm on Dec. 11, 2001)

[240sxtreme]

yeah, my question was basically, if you flip the tables...would it still be debated? &nbsp;

also, I just realized that we all went WAY off track...sorry Kustom.....guess the point is, if you're looking for lowend torque....the KA. &nbsp;look at the dynos...with a lot less HP, it still has way more lowend torque. &nbsp;I kinda wish the KA in the dyno had the same HP as the SR20...but I think this shows a good relation even still.

[kustom]

thanx for all the replies!
i guess my question was:
when i switch to the &nbsp;SR20DET will i &nbsp;feel a noticable drop in low end torque compared &nbsp;to my stock KA?

[mistert]

the sr20det is built for turbocharging from the ground up, thats why its better for the application. sure you may be able to build a KA24DE to do just as well as an sr20det, but by the time you've gotten a KA24DET to 400-450hp you'll have spent $6000 not to mention the engine itself, you can spend around that much and have an sr20det at 400-450hp at that price if you do all of the work yourself

[socom1]

The SR20DET is built for turbo. Not just the pistons rods and cams but everything. The block itself is designed for a turbo system. &quot;an interesting note: the SR20DE is actually a differant bottom end than the SR20DET for this reason&quot; The KA24DE will NEVER push as much boost RELIABLY &quot;it could probably push 100lbs for about ten feet or so&quot; as the SR20DET can. It is a question of design. Also, why is everyone so crazy about low end torque? Once the KA gets mad power the massive low end just makes it hard to launch because the S-13 and S-14 are so light. The only reason Stangs and Novas want low end is so that they can overcome their mass. The SR20DET has low enough torque that it is not hard &nbsp;to launch but it gets power right after the tires grip. Not only does this make for a better launch but the aluminum block SR20DET has less weight to push because it is considerably lighter than the iron block KA24DE. This means that after the launch as well as at speed the SR20DET can use what horse power it has more effectivly.

[kustom]

yeah, now THAT'S an informative post!
any more?

[Drifting Ricer]

Wow I'm impress with all these informative post. Makes choosing that much easier. Still cheaper for me to go with a SR with in 1 1/2 year. I would have to rebuild my KA or buy new one and that's not even adding the cost of a turbo. I do like high end power and high revs. *drools on him self*

[socom1]

Just FYI, even though the SR20DET revs high, the CA18DET revs higher. This is because the CA18DET strokes a square. But new &quot;hopefully forged&quot; shorter rods will fix this on an SR20DET.

[drift freaq]

Ok before we trash the KA completely here . the SR20DET is actually not as good as the CA18DET. FAct is Nissan cut corners on it to save money. Like the 4 lobe cams with rocker assemblys instead of 8 lobe cams.
Next Socom, The Ka is one #### of a strong motor that responds quite well to being turbo'd even bone stock. Also the low end torque gives it an advantage at launch if you know how to control your launch(can we say feather that pedal?) . Jun in Japan was blown away at the results they got when they played with the KA in fact they were quite impressed . Socom if you know anything about engines, you should know that displacement equals torque and horsepower hence why people bore their engines. If you put an Nsport stage one Turbo kit on a KADE you can get up 240 RWHp with 7 lbs of boost. Not shabby in my book and a SR20DET with 7lbs of boost is only putting out 205 hp at the flywheel. GEE thats not to hard to see is it?? &nbsp;$3695 for the Nsport stage one kit from them. Which means you could get it cheaper from a retailer.
don't get me wrong SR20DET's are dope but stop bashing the KA till you state your facts. &nbsp;oh yeah and the SR20DET is only 100lbs lighter that is not much when your talking a 2700 pound car. IMHO

Oh yeah and have you ever &nbsp;driven a 72 240z which is 300 lbs lighter than our cars?? There are guys pushing 400 ponies out of their L series 6's and they seem to have no problem launching.
If you have a problem launching mad torque and horsepower you need to learn how to launch.

[konkman]

Preach on drift freaq, preach on.

I'm sick of all this KA &nbsp;bashing by no nothing hot heads. The 240's roots were planted with the KA24e, which by the way &quot;was&quot; a truck motor.

All you guys talk about is swapping, trashing your crap KA and making your car superior with a SR. Did any of you KA bashers ever stop to learn about the power potential of the engine under your hood right now.

I would say maybe 95% or more of the KA bashers here, will never swap. So put out or shut up. The KA is an amazing motor, if Nissan ever put the KA into the 240 with a stock turbo, nobody would be arguing about anything. You'd be chucking your SR for the KADET.