Installing Electrical Fan, what kind of Fuse? - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Gnnr · 03-15-2006, 01:59 PM

[edit] I have a new question. Post #19 at the bottom of this thread. The car is a S14, btw.

nsn240 · 03-15-2006, 02:05 PM

where did you read you needed such thick gauge wire and fuse? seems like overkill to me

Gnnr · 03-15-2006, 02:07 PM

^Yeah, thats what I'm saying. I read that here:

http://houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444

WILDACEX187 · 03-15-2006, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnnr

^Yeah, thats what I'm saying. I read that here:

http://houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444

that all turned to jibbirish half way down. no pix=real confusing.

neverlift · 03-15-2006, 02:39 PM

30 amp fused relay should work,10 or 8 awg wire should be also

ledzeppelin240 · 03-15-2006, 10:29 PM

Yeah 30amp with 10awg wire should be find, just remember any motor will draw more current just to start then it levels out a lot lower.

Gnnr · 03-22-2006, 10:24 AM

New Question

Okay, I bought the green little 30amp fuse (found it at pepboys). Now what I need to know is for which relay do I cut the Blue/Green wire? There is a "Fan HI" and "Fan LOW" relay. Do I do it for both or just one? I'm following the steps here:

http://www.240sx.org/links/installs/efans/index.html

mjjstang · 03-22-2006, 03:07 PM

10 gauge wire is rated for 30 amp in household use. although for automotive you can go with 12, I just bought some 30 amp inline fuses from car store that had 12 gauge leads. 50 gauge wire would be thinner than steel wool. and you know what happens when you send 9 volts and 800ma to steel wool.

Gnnr · 03-23-2006, 09:14 AM

*bump*

Can someone answer my question above?

!Zar! · 03-23-2006, 11:44 AM

Those fuses are ones that control things like ignition, power windows. They are located in your engine bay.

g6civcx · 03-23-2006, 11:57 AM

Is your car an S13 or S14?

For the wiring question, wire gauge is a measure of how thick the wire is. The smaller the number, the thicker the wire. 8 gauge is thicker than 10. 10 gauge is thicker than 12.

The smaller the wire (higher numberical gauge indicator), the more resistance it will have. More resistance = more heat = fire. So for high current use, you need a thicker wire. Use the one that will support the maximum current pull you expect the circuit to draw. Read here if you want more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

You can also search for "AWG" for more precise tables.

You will also need to look at power consumption. Power is measured in Watts (W). A standard light bulb is about 27W. A headlight bulb is about 55W. This is maximum consumption. Find out how much your fan uses. If you can't find it, contact the manufacturer.

Figure out how much current you expect to pull. Power (W) = Voltage (V) X Current (A). The lower the Voltage, the higher the Current the fan will pull to supply power. Your battery should be around 12-13 V, but sometimes it fluctuates a little.

The purpose of the fuse is to disconnect the fan off the circuit when too much current is drawn. What you do is figure out the maximum current you expect to see, and that your fuse rating.

For a headlight, 55W / 12V = approximately 5A. Sometimes voltage can dip below 12V so you round up. So you would put a 5A fuse in front of one headlamp bulb. If the bulb pulls more than 5A, it may damage the circuit, the bulb, or even start a fire. So you need to knock it off the circuit by burning out the fuse.

So take the power consumption rating of your fan in W. Divide that number by 12 and round up. Should come out to about 30A or so. If not you need a higher-rated fuse.

Gnnr · 03-23-2006, 02:11 PM

Thanks for the help, but I already figured out what fuse I need (see post #7 in this thread).

My new question is about the wiring. Which relay do I cut the Blue/Green wire from? There is a "Fan HI" and "Fan LOW" relay. Do I do it of on both or just one? I'm following the steps here:

http://www.240sx.org/links/installs/efans/index.html

I'm using the Taurus fan which has a HI and LOW setting and would like both settings to work as if it where a stock system.

g6civcx · 03-23-2006, 09:55 PM

Just making sure you know how to choose fuses and wire gauges.

Go download the FSM from zeroyon.com. Look in the Engine Control (EC) section for Cooling Fan control.

The S14 uses 2 relays to operate the fan on either Hi, Lo, or Off. Relay #2 controls the Lo signal. Relay #1 controls the Hi signal.

If you just want your fan to operate like stock, then you don't have to cut any relay. Just wire the fan to the stock fan harness. Brown with White stripe for Lo, White with Red stripe for high, and Black for ground (you should only need one of these for your fan to ground). Or you can just ground your fan on the body somewhere.

The reason people cut the relay is to operate the fan on Lo all the time, unless you get a Hi signal. Then it operates on Hi. But all other times, it just operates on Lo. So the ECU is really only controlling Hi operation.

The ECU controls the relay by providing a ground signal and completing the circuit for the appropriate relay. The relay then routes power through to the fan to the appropriate Hi/Lo terminal.

By grounding out the Blue with Green stripe wire going to the #2 relay, you're essentially tricking the fan into thinking that the ECU is always sending it a Lo signal.

In the FSM, the #2 relay is labelled E1. It's in this picture:

Here's a pix from the FSM to help you find the location of the E1 relay in the fuse box.

That should answer all your questions. I would also advise you to be extremely careful when working with the relay because it's easy to damage the harness.

Good luck, and post up any more questions if you have them.

Gnnr · 03-23-2006, 11:13 PM

Okay, so dont cut anything. So I ground the Black wire to the body and the others would be like this:

Low Setting (E3): Brown/Orange <---> Brown/White
Hi Setting (E1): Brown/Yellow <---> White/Red

Thats how I see it according to the FSM (EC-206). I think I got it now. Thanks a bunch!

g6civcx · 03-24-2006, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Okay, so dont cut anything. So I ground the Black wire to the body and the others would be like this:

Low Setting (E3): Brown/Orange <---> Brown/White
Hi Setting (E1): Brown/Yellow <---> White/Red

Thats how I see it according to the FSM (EC-206). I think I got it now. Thanks a bunch!

Tap the E30 harness for coolant fan wiring. Brown/White for Lo and White/Red for Hi. I wouldn't know what the colours on the fan would be so double check your wiring diagram to be sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjjstang

im using my fuel pump relay in the passenger side box, then ill controll the fans hi low by other means. it owns.

You can do that. The fuel pump relay supplies ignition power. Then you can wire up switch(es) for hi/lo to your liking.

The only thing you have to watch for is to make sure that you don't overload the fuel pump wiring. The fan may draw too much current and blow a fuse, or overheat the circuit.

mjjstang · 03-23-2006, 11:54 PM

im using my fuel pump relay in the passenger side box, then ill controll the fans hi low by other means. it owns.

mjjstang · 03-24-2006, 01:06 AM

fuel pump is only supplying the signal to trip the relay. Hi low is controlled by if i have one (low) or 2 (high) wires from each fan connected to 12 volt.

g6civcx · 03-24-2006, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjjstang

fuel pump is only supplying the signal to trip the relay. Hi low is controlled by if i have one (low) or 2 (high) wires from each fan connected to 12 volt.

That is the correct way to do it. But every time you design a circuit, you have to look at maximum current draw, even though it's just a signal to trip the relay, and choose your wiring accordingly.

Gnnr · 03-24-2006, 12:29 PM

Okay, I have run into a wierd situation.

1. On both the E1 and E3 relay, the Black/White wire is cut (#5 connector).

They both also have the #3 connector cut, but that makes sense 'cause there was never an electric fan.

2. The two wires that connect to Fan FUSE are also cut.

One of the previous owners must have done something there. What do I do?

g6civcx · 03-24-2006, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnnr

Okay, I have run into a wierd situation.

1. On both the E1 and E3 relay, the Black/White wire is cut (#5 connector).

They both also have the #3 connector cut, but that makes sense 'cause there was never an electric fan.

2. The two wires that connect to Fan FUSE are also cut.

One of the previous owners must have done something there. What do I do?

That doesn't sound right. The wires should be there. What year is your S14?

Gnnr · 03-24-2006, 10:28 PM

Its a 1995 base model.

There are no wires under the Fan Fuse. There are 2 wires (power and ground I believe) under the Ignition Fuse thats infront of it, but on the Fuse for the Fan there is nothing. Should the Fan Fuse also have 2 wires going to it like the Ignition Fuse? I see that it also uses the same green 30amp fuse.

Is the Black/White wire for the #5 connectors a ground? I can just ground those if so. I dont know what to do about the wires for the Fan Fuse though.

g6civcx · 03-24-2006, 10:48 PM

Do you have air conditioning?

Gnnr · 03-25-2006, 10:01 AM

Well, not for now. It works but I believe the refrigerant leaked out. I would like to just fix whatever the previous owner did, and get it back to normal if possible. I really would like this system to work like stock with it kicking on and off by itself as needed.

Gnnr · 03-26-2006, 01:50 AM

*bump*

123456789101112

g6civcx · 03-26-2006, 05:01 PM

If you want it to run like stock, what you need to do now is go to EC-206 and look at the wiring diagram. Then you need to figure out how to run all the wire as close to stock as possible. Make absolutely sure you're looking at the right wires and give yourself plenty of time.

But since it's already cut, it may be less work to do what others have suggested and wire a manual fan switch for Hi, and let it go on Lo all the time. There are many ways to do this, and I'm sure others will chime in to help you as well.

03-15-2006, 10:29 PM	#6
ledzeppelin240 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sinse Posts: 688 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Yeah 30amp with 10awg wire should be find, just remember any motor will draw more current just to start then it levels out a lot lower. __________________ Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. Looking for: JDM S13 OEM Sideskirts

03-23-2006, 11:44 AM	#10
!Zar! Post Whore! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: North Korea Posts: 14,579 Trader Rating: (27) Feedback Score: 27 reviews	Those fuses are ones that control things like ignition, power windows. They are located in your engine bay. __________________

03-25-2006, 10:01 AM	#23
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Well, not for now. It works but I believe the refrigerant leaked out. I would like to just fix whatever the previous owner did, and get it back to normal if possible. I really would like this system to work like stock with it kicking on and off by itself as needed. Last edited by Gnnr; 03-25-2006 at 10:26 AM..

03-15-2006, 01:59 PM	#1
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Installing Electrical Fan, what kind of Fuse? [edit] I have a new question. Post #19 at the bottom of this thread. The car is a S14, btw. Last edited by Gnnr; 03-24-2006 at 12:30 PM..

03-15-2006, 02:05 PM	#2
nsn240 Zilvia Addict Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: pa Posts: 642 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	where did you read you needed such thick gauge wire and fuse? seems like overkill to me

03-15-2006, 02:07 PM	#3
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	^Yeah, thats what I'm saying. I read that here: http://houston240sx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2444

03-15-2006, 02:39 PM	#5
neverlift Zilvia Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: DUVAL Posts: 166 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	30 amp fused relay should work,10 or 8 awg wire should be also __________________ derp derp

03-22-2006, 10:24 AM	#7
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	New Question Okay, I bought the green little 30amp fuse (found it at pepboys). Now what I need to know is for which relay do I cut the Blue/Green wire? There is a "Fan HI" and "Fan LOW" relay. Do I do it for both or just one? I'm following the steps here: http://www.240sx.org/links/installs/efans/index.html Last edited by Gnnr; 03-23-2006 at 09:46 AM..

03-22-2006, 03:07 PM	#8
mjjstang Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,654 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	10 gauge wire is rated for 30 amp in household use. although for automotive you can go with 12, I just bought some 30 amp inline fuses from car store that had 12 gauge leads. 50 gauge wire would be thinner than steel wool. and you know what happens when you send 9 volts and 800ma to steel wool.

03-23-2006, 09:14 AM	#9
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	bump Can someone answer my question above?

03-23-2006, 11:57 AM	#11
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Is your car an S13 or S14? For the wiring question, wire gauge is a measure of how thick the wire is. The smaller the number, the thicker the wire. 8 gauge is thicker than 10. 10 gauge is thicker than 12. The smaller the wire (higher numberical gauge indicator), the more resistance it will have. More resistance = more heat = fire. So for high current use, you need a thicker wire. Use the one that will support the maximum current pull you expect the circuit to draw. Read here if you want more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge You can also search for "AWG" for more precise tables. You will also need to look at power consumption. Power is measured in Watts (W). A standard light bulb is about 27W. A headlight bulb is about 55W. This is maximum consumption. Find out how much your fan uses. If you can't find it, contact the manufacturer. Figure out how much current you expect to pull. Power (W) = Voltage (V) X Current (A). The lower the Voltage, the higher the Current the fan will pull to supply power. Your battery should be around 12-13 V, but sometimes it fluctuates a little. The purpose of the fuse is to disconnect the fan off the circuit when too much current is drawn. What you do is figure out the maximum current you expect to see, and that your fuse rating. For a headlight, 55W / 12V = approximately 5A. Sometimes voltage can dip below 12V so you round up. So you would put a 5A fuse in front of one headlamp bulb. If the bulb pulls more than 5A, it may damage the circuit, the bulb, or even start a fire. So you need to knock it off the circuit by burning out the fuse. So take the power consumption rating of your fan in W. Divide that number by 12 and round up. Should come out to about 30A or so. If not you need a higher-rated fuse.

03-23-2006, 02:11 PM	#12
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Thanks for the help, but I already figured out what fuse I need (see post #7 in this thread). My new question is about the wiring. Which relay do I cut the Blue/Green wire from? There is a "Fan HI" and "Fan LOW" relay. Do I do it of on both or just one? I'm following the steps here: http://www.240sx.org/links/installs/efans/index.html I'm using the Taurus fan which has a HI and LOW setting and would like both settings to work as if it where a stock system.

03-23-2006, 09:55 PM	#13
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Just making sure you know how to choose fuses and wire gauges. Go download the FSM from zeroyon.com. Look in the Engine Control (EC) section for Cooling Fan control. The S14 uses 2 relays to operate the fan on either Hi, Lo, or Off. Relay #2 controls the Lo signal. Relay #1 controls the Hi signal. If you just want your fan to operate like stock, then you don't have to cut any relay. Just wire the fan to the stock fan harness. Brown with White stripe for Lo, White with Red stripe for high, and Black for ground (you should only need one of these for your fan to ground). Or you can just ground your fan on the body somewhere. The reason people cut the relay is to operate the fan on Lo all the time, unless you get a Hi signal. Then it operates on Hi. But all other times, it just operates on Lo. So the ECU is really only controlling Hi operation. The ECU controls the relay by providing a ground signal and completing the circuit for the appropriate relay. The relay then routes power through to the fan to the appropriate Hi/Lo terminal. By grounding out the Blue with Green stripe wire going to the #2 relay, you're essentially tricking the fan into thinking that the ECU is always sending it a Lo signal. In the FSM, the #2 relay is labelled E1. It's in this picture: Here's a pix from the FSM to help you find the location of the E1 relay in the fuse box. That should answer all your questions. I would also advise you to be extremely careful when working with the relay because it's easy to damage the harness. Good luck, and post up any more questions if you have them.

03-23-2006, 11:13 PM	#14
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Okay, so dont cut anything. So I ground the Black wire to the body and the others would be like this: Low Setting (E3): Brown/Orange <---> Brown/White Hi Setting (E1): Brown/Yellow <---> White/Red Thats how I see it according to the FSM (EC-206). I think I got it now. Thanks a bunch!

03-23-2006, 11:54 PM	#16
mjjstang Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,654 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	im using my fuel pump relay in the passenger side box, then ill controll the fans hi low by other means. it owns.

03-24-2006, 01:06 AM	#17
mjjstang Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,654 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	fuel pump is only supplying the signal to trip the relay. Hi low is controlled by if i have one (low) or 2 (high) wires from each fan connected to 12 volt.

03-24-2006, 12:29 PM	#19
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Okay, I have run into a wierd situation. 1. On both the E1 and E3 relay, the Black/White wire is cut (#5 connector). They both also have the #3 connector cut, but that makes sense 'cause there was never an electric fan. 2. The two wires that connect to Fan FUSE are also cut. One of the previous owners must have done something there. What do I do?

03-24-2006, 10:28 PM	#21
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Its a 1995 base model. There are no wires under the Fan Fuse. There are 2 wires (power and ground I believe) under the Ignition Fuse thats infront of it, but on the Fuse for the Fan there is nothing. Should the Fan Fuse also have 2 wires going to it like the Ignition Fuse? I see that it also uses the same green 30amp fuse. Is the Black/White wire for the #5 connectors a ground? I can just ground those if so. I dont know what to do about the wires for the Fan Fuse though.

03-24-2006, 10:48 PM	#22
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	Do you have air conditioning?

03-26-2006, 01:50 AM	#24
Gnnr Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: S. FL Posts: 3,960 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	bump 123456789101112

03-26-2006, 05:01 PM	#25
g6civcx Post Whore! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 5,764 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	If you want it to run like stock, what you need to do now is go to EC-206 and look at the wiring diagram. Then you need to figure out how to run all the wire as close to stock as possible. Make absolutely sure you're looking at the right wires and give yourself plenty of time. But since it's already cut, it may be less work to do what others have suggested and wire a manual fan switch for Hi, and let it go on Lo all the time. There are many ways to do this, and I'm sure others will chime in to help you as well.