rebuild Redtop or get a Blacktop? - see inside

[MrFairlady]

Ok I know this has been covered Numerous Times...but If i was planning on Buying a Swap- Redtop ($$ wise) & re-do all the seals,gaskets,clutch,water pump - relatively basic items - ..might as well get a Blktop w/ what I would would have in it correct?

Money is an object to a point and Its my daily (needs a bit of reliability but Not Long Trip type) that I've been waiting and waiting to put a motor in.I Have no Exp w/ used JDM motors (never had to buy one) esp one from a 10-15yr old car but def getting a motor.

are the Blktops (lower mileage of course) pretty much good from "the yard"..? w/ the exception of a clutch of course

or buy a redtop and re-do the basic's?
-------------------------------------------
What are the chances buying this swap that the trans will be shitty or Grind?Is it a pretty much "gonna be there" type thing or basic fluid (GM syncromesh type fluid could be the answer?

**note: I'm not going for 300+whp or anything near that - something quick + more (better than my Bone KA) and damn near stock,just the basic's w/ potnetial once the Supra Goes**
turbo KA is not really the route I wanna go FYI.Always felt better w/ a Motor designed for a Turbo..not a turbo put on a NA motor type deal.

thanks for the help on the double Question Post.

[unicoladron]

with any engine that has been carelessly yanked out of a car on the other side of earth, of course you may run into things. a few things you need to look at if you DO choose to purchase the engine:

-buy from reputable vendor
-get it on paper that they guarantee at least 30 days warranty, or some type of startup warranty guarantee.
-don't listen to "errr between 35 and 55 kilometers" that's all horse poo anyways.
-it's not that hard to freshen up an older redtop. you can source oem gasket kits direct from nissan. all the preventative maintenence parts and other parts that wear out can be easily found too.

if i were you i'd rebuild the redtop before i go spend 2 grand.

clutches are easy to do and somewhat cheap. and if you get a shitty trans, you can always find someone on here who prob has one.

edit: oh shit i just re-read your post. it seemed like you ALREADY had a redtop. whatever, get whatever suits your budget/needs best.

[MrFairlady]

Originally Posted by unicoladron

if i were you i'd rebuild the redtop before i go spend 2 grand.

thanks so much.

But what i'm wondering is buy the time I get all the $65 water pumps,$220 seal/gasket kit,yadda,yadda..wouldn't that be near $2000+ right there if per say the Redtop was $1700 + ship?

[unicoladron]

Originally Posted by MrFairlady

thanks so much.

But what i'm wondering is buy the time I get all the $65 water pumps,$220 seal/gasket kit,yadda,yadda..wouldn't that be near $2000+ right there if per say the Redtop was $1700 + ship?

well it's good, seems like you've done some research.


but if you can get a redtop/tranny/harness blah blah for ~1700 with some type of warranty then go for it.

but there's nothing like peace of mind knowing you put all new gaskets and war and tear parts into your engine.

but any engine swap or any type of overhaul is of course going to cost money. don't try to nickel and dime it.

[smelly240]

redtop vs black are the prices really that much different? i havent bought a motorset in like 5 years...

[Irukandji]

Rebuild.

End of story

[steve_o1989]

An S13 black top is only a couple hundred more than the redtop, and there is no gaurantee that it is going to be in better condition. Personally I would replace the gaskets, seals, water pump, oil pump, timing compnenets, clutch, yadda yadda yadda on either engine. You never know what to expect when you are getting an engine that sat who knows where, for an unknown period of time.

Like mentioned above, find a reputable supplier. Don't get an engine from some unheard of place just to save a buck. Go with someone well known, that is going to offer you a warranty. Get them to do a compression test, possibly leakdown. You will have a better idea of what you are getting.

[Rusker]

Originally Posted by steve_o1989

An S13 black top is only a couple hundred more than the redtop, and there is no gaurantee that it is going to be in better condition. Personally I would replace the gaskets, seals, water pump, oil pump, timing compnenets, clutch, yadda yadda yadda on either engine. You never know what to expect when you are getting an engine that sat who knows where, for an unknown period of time.

Exactly. That blacktop could have been sitting around just as long as some of the redtops.

[qwikspool]

rebuild = peace of mind. my2cents. i was in your shoes before. but im just saving up for a rebuild. good luck.

[deesz]

if you rebuild you know you can trust the NEW parts if you buy a blacktop how do you know that those parts arnt going to crap out on you.
plus if you rebuild you can build it to your daily driver needs and know you can trust it...

[MrFairlady]

Originally Posted by deesz

if you rebuild you know you can trust the NEW parts if you buy a blacktop how do you know that those parts arnt going to crap out on you.
plus if you rebuild you can build it to your daily driver needs and know you can trust it...

Exactly.And I'm fine w/ that...just wanted to make sure Its justified to screw the Blk and get a red.I planned on replaing seals and such anyway.Wanted you guys' take on it.Not ness trying to save a buck.Just long term use.My Car is damn near mint (inside and out).....wanna make sure it stays/looks & runs that way.+ its DOHC and I hear the swap is ALOT eaiser w/ that motor alreeady in the car.

Tranmission is my real main worry...though w/ any trans issue I've had..the right fluid did WONDERS for it.
STi I had grinded into 5th anywhere above 5k rpms....also would slightly catch Reverse going into 6th (subaru told me)...they put GM synchromesh in there.Perfect after that.

thanks guys...sorry for the Newbish question..it was answered very professionally and exactly why I come here only.

[ALEXTHESUS*PECT]

rebiuld the redtop! it's what i did, and i haven't looked back since!

[McRussellPants]

I blew a rebuilt redtop and went to an S15 motor and it was the best decision I've ever made.

People think rebuilt motor is the end all of reliability. but a rebuilt motor can be even more trash than dumpster dive redtop if the person who rebuilt it didn't take their time.

[Dousan_PG]

yeah dpends on rebuilding person
garage works did my rebuild
shit rules everything
so strong

id pass the redtop get a s14 or s15 motor imo

[LongGrain]

rebuilding the motor is an excellent idea.

but IMO you shouldnt need to rebuild it as long as you get the motor for a RELIABLE vendor. I'm getting my swap from panda garage. ive heard nothing but good things about them, and they are in the US.

[r2rs]

just buy a whole front clip with low miles so that you have everything needed. while your at it go ahead and replace gaskets son!!!

[cgtdream]

while the motor is out of a car you might aswell as atleast replace the gaskets that are known to wear easiest/fastest. .i didnt do that, and now im dreading the places imma have to work in just to get to a gasket i couldve gotten to "EASIER" when the engine wasnt in the car....

[slidingsky]

If you get a motor from a reputable shop with reasonable mileage then you shouldn't have to rebuild the motor. You should replace the normal exterior gaskets but I wouldn't go as far as a rebuild kit.

With that being said, as long as you or someone else is competent enough (not knocking you) to rebuild a motor then get a redtop and rebuild it. As long as you have the time/money.

The reason I say redtop is that S13 blacktop motors won't nessecarily have lower mileage nor do they have any performance gain but they are generally priced higher.

If you decide to go S14 blacktop then your chances of having a lower mileage motor are greater as long as you are buying from a reputable vendor that is telling you the actual mileage.

I have an S14 and I am going with a rebuilt S13 SR.

[MrFairlady]

Originally Posted by slidingsky

I wouldn't go as far as a rebuild kit.

well right..I say rebuild but actually ment "tune-up",refurbish - not actually rebuild from the ground up kinda thing.

What are the main Gaskets to replace (manifold gasket - turbo housing gasket etc etc?

Seals are the other thing,valve cover,front seals,rear seals go ahead and do all that might as well correct???
I'm sure I'm missing a few..but the gasket kit has it all and then some right.

[unicoladron]

as you noted above stating that if you have a dohc motor, the swap is easier. somehwat accurate, but here's my take on it
1. if you have a doch, power steering bolts right up and is hassle free
2. if you had sohc, the ps pump is on the opposite side, and you need to either custom fab some shit, or head to the junkyard for dohc ps.

since we're going down the avenue of gaskets and what not, i'd like to bring up rocker arm stoppers, head gasket replacement, and arp head studs. this stuff gets that fucking annoying monkey off your back when your boost spiking to 16 psi on a stock SR. stupid monkey.

the reason why everyone tells you to do the rear main seal is when you're swapping an SR in, it's a good practice to put in a new clutch, lightened fly wheel (if the budget allows) and pressure plate, tob, pilot etc. so while you're in that area, might as well drop the upper/lower oil pan and stick in a new rear main seal. also the rear transmission seal, forgot what it's called, it's inside the bellhousing. replace that too. but yeah i've been lucky enough to never have to do a front seal.

i'd also like to warn you about the turbo coolant line. stock SRs use hard lines. i hate myself for not doing this. get an S14 upper water neck, and route your turbo coolant feed line to there, you'll thank yourself if you ever have to pull your exhaust mani or turbo for some reason.

[fliprayzin240sx]

First off, your not asking about rebuilding an engine, your just talking about replacing stuff that should be replaced before any shop. You cant honestly expect to drop a 10-15 yr old engine thats been sitting in a junkyard for god knows how long and expect it to run reliably. Doesnt matter if its a redtop, blacktop, bluetop, pinktop etc, you need to do preventative maintenance on it before dropping it in. If your so stingy to change shiet like thermostats, water pump, belts, oil pans, etc, then you will end up paying alot more in the long run when that engine starts having issues, because you gimped on it when you did the install.

The difference between a S13 redtop/blacktop is a couple hundreds, tops. You want a reliable engine, blacktop wont be a good candidate (for me atleast). Why? All blacktops came from 180sx in japan. I have yet to see a 180sx that hasnt been BEAT TO HELL. Go find an automatic SR engine and youll have a better chance of finding them in a better condition and less abuse. It doesnt take much to make them work with a 5 speed tranny.

[MrFairlady]

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

First off, your not asking about rebuilding an engine, your just talking about replacing stuff that should be replaced before any shop. You cant honestly expect to drop a 10-15 yr old engine thats been sitting in a junkyard for god knows how long and expect it to run reliably. Doesnt matter if its a redtop, blacktop, bluetop, pinktop etc, you need to do preventative maintenance on it before dropping it in. If your so stingy to change shiet like thermostats, water pump, belts, oil pans, etc, then you will end up paying alot more in the long run when that engine starts having issues, because you gimped on it when you did the install.

The difference between a S13 redtop/blacktop is a couple hundreds, tops. You want a reliable engine, blacktop wont be a good candidate (for me atleast). Why? All blacktops came from 180sx in japan. I have yet to see a 180sx that hasnt been BEAT TO HELL. Go find an automatic SR engine and youll have a better chance of finding them in a better condition and less abuse. It doesnt take much to make them work with a 5 speed tranny.

Thank you....I'd rather do it right so thats kinda why I'm asking by the time I spent money on stuff..would the Blk be a better starting point.

Redtop looks like my best bet and Just get the prevenative parts to Work well.

co-worker dropped a Redtop in his coupe (orig had a DOHC as well) and it has been his daily for about 6-8mnths since the install.It had a relativley new clutch.Had a wire wrong and had to replace the ECU but thats it.He got a Clip of some kind that had SMIC,etc,etc.
Everything has Run excellent for him.Hes had to I believe get a new water pump recently..thats it.

I hop I'm as lucky as he is and just go ahead and drop a new clutch,Seals,gaskets..pumps and hope for the best.
Do I need to go ahead and bet on th eoil pan being dookie when i get the motor too? Go ahead and buy a new OEM one?

thanks again.

**This wil hopefullyl be a good search thread that i wish I would have found,..but were moving right along for Future Newbs that will hopefuuly search.

[Cloud9]

It should only be a couple hundred diff between the s13 red and blacktop, so save 200 more and get a blacktop just for the sake of possible lower miles. And then rebuild it if you wish, ive had my sr for over a year now and only did minor things like exhaust gaskests, water pump, main seals, plugs, clutch, ect and it runs great and i beat the shit out of it and drive it 4 hours home from every event.

[unicoladron]

Originally Posted by MrFairlady

Thank you....I'd rather do it right so thats kinda why I'm asking by the time I spent money on stuff..would the Blk be a better starting point.

Redtop looks like my best bet and Just get the prevenative parts to Work well.

co-worker dropped a Redtop in his coupe (orig had a DOHC as well) and it has been his daily for about 6-8mnths since the install.It had a relativley new clutch.Had a wire wrong and had to replace the ECU but thats it.He got a Clip of some kind that had SMIC,etc,etc.
Everything has Run excellent for him.Hes had to I believe get a new water pump recently..thats it.

I hop I'm as lucky as he is and just go ahead and drop a new clutch,Seals,gaskets..pumps and hope for the best.
Do I need to go ahead and bet on th eoil pan being dookie when i get the motor too? Go ahead and buy a new OEM one?

thanks again.

**This wil hopefullyl be a good search thread that i wish I would have found,..but were moving right along for Future Newbs that will hopefuuly search.

you don't have to go and waste 60 dollars on a new shiny oil pan. just bash out the one you get with a hammer. don't go to crazy on it to fuck up the metal that would potentially cause a leak. use a plastic/wooden mallet or some shit. the money for that oil pan can go to a turbo timer or some other shit.

[nissanmotorsports]

Originally Posted by fliprayzin240sx

First off, your not asking about rebuilding an engine, your just talking about replacing stuff that should be replaced before any shop. You cant honestly expect to drop a 10-15 yr old engine thats been sitting in a junkyard for god knows how long and expect it to run reliably. Doesnt matter if its a redtop, blacktop, bluetop, pinktop etc, you need to do preventative maintenance on it before dropping it in. If your so stingy to change shiet like thermostats, water pump, belts, oil pans, etc, then you will end up paying alot more in the long run when that engine starts having issues, because you gimped on it when you did the install.

The difference between a S13 redtop/blacktop is a couple hundreds, tops. You want a reliable engine, blacktop wont be a good candidate (for me atleast). Why? All blacktops came from 180sx in japan. I have yet to see a 180sx that hasnt been BEAT TO HELL. Go find an automatic SR engine and youll have a better chance of finding them in a better condition and less abuse. It doesnt take much to make them work with a 5 speed tranny.

yea, that's right! i just did a swap in my 1991 240sx with an Automatic SR engine, well what can i say it runs perfectly and reliably, soon, i will rebuild the motor, just in case.

[fliprayzin240sx]

My advice is if your gonna buy an engine, get one that you can see first hand and inspect. People who buy things and hope for the best that itll work out for them are the kind of people who gets themselves into situations that they shouldnt have been in the first place. Thats what you sound like right now. If you cant afford to do basic maintenance on an SR before you install it and do it right from the get-go, youre better off sticking with your KA till it either blows or you save enough money to do your swap right.

And honestly, the chance of you getting a good engine is getting slimmer by the day. There aint a whole lot of clean SR swaps coming out of japan since supply just couldnt keep up with the demand. Most of the clean ones have already been plucked, the ones left are less and less quality compared to 2 yrs ago. So heed my advice when I say find somebody local. Why? If something is fucked up on it, you can just drive back, let them know and hopefully get replaced on the spot.

A better question for you isnt redtop or blacktop. Its whether you should get an engine set or a clip. Engine sets are cheaper and some places actually would sell you everything you need for your swap with their engine set. Basically your getting a clip without the damn clip.

[sblack13]

Here's my advice buy a S14/S15 SR rebuild that.
forget about s13 sr's.
I don't know i just don't like redtops for some reason haha.
But...I love blacktop's.

[ByeByeSti]

just drop a blacktop sr in, dont bother with the rebuild of a redtop. like everyone else said just find yourself a nice reputable dealer that has little to none negative feed back and order from them. im sure if there was something wrong within those 30 days that most companies offer that they would surely replace w/e it is instead of wrecking there reputation. but w/e you do try to keep in in the states instead of ordering out of the country cuz you can get screwed over soooo much easier and you will have a slim to none chance of getting any of those "warrentys" or "garentees" that they offer.

goodluck sir

[steve_o1989]

For everbody saying to just get a blacktop and drop that in, there is no gaurantee that it is going to be in better condition. For all you know it could have been sitting around for just as long, or longer than a redtop. There really is no way of knowing when the engine is pulled. Most of the black tops probably wont be that much different condition wise compared to a redtop, that is unless you get a s14, or s15 engine, even then, ANY of these engines could have been sitting around out side for years. Honestly, which ever route you go, be sure you replace the essentials, which you say you are going to do which is good to see. Dont assume that a blacktop is going to be in a condition that is not going require any attention just because it comes from a car that is a few years newer.