All motor 240 ideas. - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

YaItsGotAHemi · 04-07-2008, 10:40 AM

I am thinking about keeping the ka24e and going the all motor route...
I figure the obvious place to start is the 5 speed swap. But I want to get a higher geared rear end. The car will not be a daily driver so just about anything goes for the build.

Questions:
What is the highest geared setup I can use? And can you point me into a direction to find some info on it?

Do the KA24E and KA24DE use the same exhaust manifold flanges?

stupid nissan · 04-07-2008, 10:47 AM

how much power are you trying to make because an all motor build on a ka24e could get quite expensive

trsilvias13 · 04-07-2008, 10:54 AM

ka24e and ka24de uses different exhaust manifold flanges.

If you want high output off the ka24e - contact robello racing in nor cal.

If you want high output off the ka24de - look up greaser (freshalloy member)

The ROMAN · 04-07-2008, 10:54 AM

The highest all motor KA I've heard of are the ITA engines that make 200hp. There is one guy on here who built a KA like that too, it shoots massive flames and runs on race gas I think? They are expensive and you need to really need to know how to tune them.

If you really want "all motor" best bet is to just make it easy and get an LT/LS series V8...or just limit your goals to 140hp and keep the KA.

wannabe_drifter · 04-07-2008, 11:02 AM

Here's the 200 whp ka24de that is shooting flames
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQ4eA626kM[/ame]
I think he was not quite at 200 on that vid though, but he is now.

His nick is Greaser_, he is on some other nissan forums

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 11:10 AM

If all he could get is 200hp on race gas the he wasn't doing it right! The SCCA GT2 and 3 cars use KA's and the single cam's make over 250hp! Besides if you wanna go monster you can make more than that because you are not limited by any rulebook. Brian Crower has a 2.65 litre stroker kit for the KADE's. That combined with a great head (porting, BIG valves, etc...), ITB's, high compression (like 12 to 14 to 1 high), race gas, cams, and a great ECU should be able to put more than 300hp and torque to the pavement.

Devil Man · 04-07-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

If all he could get is 200hp on race gas the he wasn't doing it right! The SCCA GT2 and 3 cars use KA's and the single cam's make over 250hp! Besides if you wanna go monster you can make more than that because you are not limited by any rulebook. Brian Crower has a 2.65 litre stroker kit for the KADE's. That combined with a great head (porting, BIG valves, etc...), ITB's, high compression (like 12 to 14 to 1 high), race gas, cams, and a great ECU should be able to put more than 300hp and torque to the pavement.

interesting. i wounder if you could do all that and just not have to use the race gas and take the hit on power.... hmmmm good post.

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 10:32 PM

The KA's are MUCH more potent than mose people realize. You can get 200hp out of a budget build if you do it right.

EJ253 · 04-07-2008, 11:13 AM

i think its pretty easy to shoot flames when your exhaust is only 2 and a half feet long

supergoob · 04-07-2008, 11:32 AM

how many miles is on your engine?

YaItsGotAHemi · 04-07-2008, 07:16 PM

2xx,xxx don't know specific mileage but i know it has to be tired and ready for a build. I have a Neon that is going to be the turbo project so i want an all motor build with a 240 and would be happy with a mid 13 second time. don't care about power levels. just want a nice powered nice looking 240. because a neon will never look nice.

haz-e · 04-07-2008, 10:39 PM

I never dynod my NA KAE motor, but it was much faster than my 180whp/ftlb KAET. Had 12.7:1 CR, custom cam grind care of PDM on Nismo Blank, P&P head, Port matched, balanced, straight exhaust, and ECU work, reworked intake.

As has been said its not cheap but its worth it. Its even better becuase most people thow out great motors when they swap to the faactory turbo'd ones.

Buy an FSM and become friends with a machinist.

johngriff · 04-07-2008, 10:47 PM

I would swap an S2000 Engine in before building a KA.

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngriff

I would swap an S2000 Engine in before building a KA.

I guess you hate torque or something then! There is absolutely NOTHING at all wrong with a N/A KA build. For the cost of swapping a stock s2k motor I could build a KA that would spank the hell out of an s2k motor! Shit s2k's barely pull on me on the straights with my stock KADE.

KA240SX808 · 04-07-2008, 10:51 PM

Cervasa on 240SXF made 187 with:
Exedy Stage 2 Clutch
Fidanza 11lbs FW
P & P w/ 5 Angle Valve Job by Cosworth
Ferrera 1mm OS Int/Exh Valves
Ferrera Dual Springs and Retainers
Bc 272 Cams
Xcessive Intake Mani
Hotshot Intake
Dc Header
Catco 3"
RS*R Ex MAg
Cometic 91mm HG
ARP Main and Rod Bolts
Wiseco 90.5mm 10.5:1 C/R Pistons
Eagle Rods
UR Crank Pulley
Sard FPR
Walboro 255lph Pump
JWT Cam Gears
Thermal Intake Gasket
DeatschWerks 450cc injectors
Deso Iridum Plugs
Magnacor Wires
Crank Scrapper

haz-e · 04-07-2008, 10:52 PM

Just get a decent cam, exhaust, and shave your head before you invest in a NA KA. It'll give you a little taste Contact E1 Egriego (SP?) on here for a bitchin ECU tune.

johngriff · 04-07-2008, 11:24 PM

Gotta dyno for your KADE?

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 11:28 PM

I dynoed it a few years ago when it was absolutely bone stock and it had about 140whp and 135 tq. It should have somewhere around 150-160whp and 135-145 tq, but the compression is a bit low and it seems to have lost it's oompth, if you know what I mean. I don't really understand why this is significant to this thread though.

johngriff · 04-07-2008, 11:31 PM

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 11:37 PM

But the built KA would cost around the same amount of money as swapping in the stock s2k motor and the KA would have way more torque and most likely more horsepower too. I think Carrol Shelby said it best "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". That is the 100% TRUTH right there. The s2k motor would rev better and have a better top end, but the brute force torque of the KA would rocket the car off the corners.

toufu · 04-07-2008, 11:43 PM

vh45de....nuff said...

racepar1 · 04-07-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toufu

vh45de....nuff said...

If you really want to post the end-all of N/A motors it would be the ls1! Fuck the vh45!

jim1234664 · 04-09-2008, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

But the built KA would cost around the same amount of money as swapping in the stock s2k motor and the KA would have way more torque and most likely more horsepower too. I think Carrol Shelby said it best "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". That is the 100% TRUTH right there. The s2k motor would rev better and have a better top end, but the brute force torque of the KA would rocket the car off the corners.

uhh but the stock f20c would actually be reliable....

racepar1 · 04-09-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nismo240R

Our intake runners are ~44mm: So I think the 98-99 750 ITBs are more then enough

Who says our stock runners are big enough to support a high HP N/A set up in the first place? I would think somewhere around 50mm is more what you would want personally. I'm going to check the SCCA rule book that I have at home to see what the KA's throttlebodies are restricted to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim1234664

uhh but the stock f20c would actually be reliable....

Why wouldn't a moderately built and well tuned KA be reliable? KA's are known to be pretty bulletproof!

KA240SX808 · 04-09-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racepar1

Who says our stock runners are big enough to support a high HP N/A set up in the first place? I would think somewhere around 50mm is more what you would want personally. I'm going to check the SCCA rule book that I have at home to see what the KA's throttlebodies are restricted to.

Well I meant enough as far as comparing them to the stock Intake runners which I agree, for our 2389cc's 42 and even 46 are kind of small. But I'm sure if you bore the ITB's to 50mm and the Intake Runners because those things are beefy, I have an Excel program that does ITB's calculation for an engine I just have to find it.

steve shadows · 04-08-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngriff

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

John doesnt mean that he is just trying to drive you guys nuts.

KA24DE with cams + AEM + Headers + Exhaust/ Intake will make more usable power and torque than an S2000 engine, in fact stock for stock on a road course if you know what you are doing straigh line is almost the same.

ps. The 300 HP NA KAs are rated as Brake output, so they are more like 250whp, and they run on 110 or alchohal only.

Compression ratio is sky high.

About the highest you can get in a street car is aroun 180-200whp. Even Greaser has to run 100 octane or higher all the time

or his setup pings like crazy.

BigVinnie · 05-21-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johngriff

Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA.

Thats why.

Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all.

Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in.

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.
Allowing the cams to advance or retard is pretty much what allows these 11.3:1 Compression engines to use 91 octane without getting a crap load of knock and ping, and to satisfy smog emissions.

I'm cheaping out on my build, the grand total will be some where around $2300 in parts, and a crap load of labor.
Right now my engines compression is in the shitter and my engine makes 162 WHP, I don't think its that difficult to make relatively 38 additional whp and stay smog legal using PDM cams, truck main caps, an extruded manifold and 300cc injectors. I mean the reality is I've already made over 30 WHP from stock with a cheap SAFC and bolt ons, it really can't be that difficult.

300hp owen · 05-22-2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigVinnie

The only true advantage that the F20c and F22c engines have over the KA is vtec.

WRONG ! and somewhat narrow minded too. no offense, just bugs me when people break down conversations way too simply and leave out important info in a good discussion.

what about the beautifully light and precise feeling f20c transmission!

so many people talk motor swap for motor swap but fail to even include some of the best aspects of certain swaps, the tranny! LS1 is great becuase the 6speed T56 is bulletproof and has great close ratios. the f20c is great because the 6speed is super slick and amazingly precise and quick shifting, its a wonderful piece of automotive machinery.

and now back to your regularly scheduled N/A KA thread, lol

KA240SX808 · 04-07-2008, 11:44 PM

And he's running 89.5mm Bore, my bad

johngriff · 04-07-2008, 11:45 PM

How much torque does a built ka make?

04-07-2008, 10:40 AM	#1
YaItsGotAHemi Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wichita, KS Age: 36 Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	All motor 240 ideas. I am thinking about keeping the ka24e and going the all motor route... I figure the obvious place to start is the 5 speed swap. But I want to get a higher geared rear end. The car will not be a daily driver so just about anything goes for the build. Questions: What is the highest geared setup I can use? And can you point me into a direction to find some info on it? Do the KA24E and KA24DE use the same exhaust manifold flanges?

04-07-2008, 11:02 AM	#5
wannabe_drifter Zilvia Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Québec, Canada Age: 41 Posts: 245 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Here's the 200 whp ka24de that is shooting flames [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfQ4eA626kM[/ame] I think he was not quite at 200 on that vid though, but he is now. His nick is Greaser_, he is on some other nissan forums __________________

04-07-2008, 11:13 AM	#9
EJ253 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Age: 36 Posts: 1,154 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: EJ253 Feedback Score: 0 reviews	i think its pretty easy to shoot flames when your exhaust is only 2 and a half feet long __________________ The gap between MORE and ENOUGH never closes. DriftUtah \| UtahNissans \| MySpace \| I <3 Drifting. Keep it Real. Secret Society

04-07-2008, 10:47 PM	#13
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	I would swap an S2000 Engine in before building a KA. __________________ [email protected]

04-07-2008, 11:24 PM	#17
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Gotta dyno for your KADE? __________________ [email protected]

04-07-2008, 10:47 AM	#2
stupid nissan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: san antonio Age: 43 Posts: 42 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how much power are you trying to make because an all motor build on a ka24e could get quite expensive

04-07-2008, 10:54 AM	#3
trsilvias13 Nissanaholic! Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 1,995 Trader Rating: (5) Feedback Score: 5 reviews	ka24e and ka24de uses different exhaust manifold flanges. If you want high output off the ka24e - contact robello racing in nor cal. If you want high output off the ka24de - look up greaser (freshalloy member)

04-07-2008, 10:54 AM	#4
The ROMAN Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NJ Age: 42 Posts: 730 Trader Rating: (2) Feedback Score: 2 reviews	The highest all motor KA I've heard of are the ITA engines that make 200hp. There is one guy on here who built a KA like that too, it shoots massive flames and runs on race gas I think? They are expensive and you need to really need to know how to tune them. If you really want "all motor" best bet is to just make it easy and get an LT/LS series V8...or just limit your goals to 140hp and keep the KA.

04-07-2008, 11:10 AM	#6
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	If all he could get is 200hp on race gas the he wasn't doing it right! The SCCA GT2 and 3 cars use KA's and the single cam's make over 250hp! Besides if you wanna go monster you can make more than that because you are not limited by any rulebook. Brian Crower has a 2.65 litre stroker kit for the KADE's. That combined with a great head (porting, BIG valves, etc...), ITB's, high compression (like 12 to 14 to 1 high), race gas, cams, and a great ECU should be able to put more than 300hp and torque to the pavement.

04-07-2008, 10:32 PM	#8
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	The KA's are MUCH more potent than mose people realize. You can get 200hp out of a budget build if you do it right.

04-07-2008, 11:32 AM	#10
supergoob Leaky Injector Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cadiz, KY Age: 37 Posts: 83 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	how many miles is on your engine?

04-07-2008, 07:16 PM	#11
YaItsGotAHemi Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wichita, KS Age: 36 Posts: 19 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	2xx,xxx don't know specific mileage but i know it has to be tired and ready for a build. I have a Neon that is going to be the turbo project so i want an all motor build with a 240 and would be happy with a mid 13 second time. don't care about power levels. just want a nice powered nice looking 240. because a neon will never look nice.

04-07-2008, 10:39 PM	#12
haz-e Join Date: May 2005 Location: Evergreen State Posts: 37 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I never dynod my NA KAE motor, but it was much faster than my 180whp/ftlb KAET. Had 12.7:1 CR, custom cam grind care of PDM on Nismo Blank, P&P head, Port matched, balanced, straight exhaust, and ECU work, reworked intake. As has been said its not cheap but its worth it. Its even better becuase most people thow out great motors when they swap to the faactory turbo'd ones. Buy an FSM and become friends with a machinist.

04-07-2008, 10:52 PM	#16
haz-e Join Date: May 2005 Location: Evergreen State Posts: 37 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Just get a decent cam, exhaust, and shave your head before you invest in a NA KA. It'll give you a little taste Contact E1 Egriego (SP?) on here for a bitchin ECU tune.

04-07-2008, 11:28 PM	#18
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	I dynoed it a few years ago when it was absolutely bone stock and it had about 140whp and 135 tq. It should have somewhere around 150-160whp and 135-145 tq, but the compression is a bit low and it seems to have lost it's oompth, if you know what I mean. I don't really understand why this is significant to this thread though.

04-07-2008, 11:31 PM	#19
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	Because I would swap an S2000 Engine into a S13 before building a KA. Thats why. Greasers car is Totally radical. But, he spent money on his KA build. It wasn't cheap. ITB's and a standalone? No, not cheapening out at all. Its just after that much money, I would rather just put an S2000 engine in. __________________ [email protected]

04-07-2008, 11:37 PM	#20
racepar1 Post Whore! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Simi Valley, CA Age: 42 Posts: 9,006 Trader Rating: (106) Rides Gallery: racepar1 Feedback Score: 106 reviews	But the built KA would cost around the same amount of money as swapping in the stock s2k motor and the KA would have way more torque and most likely more horsepower too. I think Carrol Shelby said it best "horsepower sells cars, torque wins races". That is the 100% TRUTH right there. The s2k motor would rev better and have a better top end, but the brute force torque of the KA would rocket the car off the corners.

04-07-2008, 11:43 PM	#21
toufu Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: SoCal Age: 33 Posts: 36 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	vh45de....nuff said...

04-07-2008, 11:45 PM	#30
johngriff Post Whore! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 4,103 Trader Rating: (4) Rides Gallery: johngriff Feedback Score: 4 reviews	How much torque does a built ka make? __________________ [email protected]