mis-fireing system - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan 240SX (Silvia) and Z (Fairlady) Car Forum

Red89AllStockBiotch · 05-12-2003, 02:46 PM

when what where why...any and all info would help, just sum it up if you could please...thanks

zspturbo · 05-12-2003, 02:55 PM

just get done watching some emperor episodes of initial D?

Chokets · 05-12-2003, 03:25 PM

keeps the boost up/constant

RanciD · 05-12-2003, 03:27 PM

The purpose of a misfiring system is to hold boost even while shifting and such by keeping exhaust gases flowing. This way you'll never have to wait for your turbo to spool up. The only real applications I remember it being used in is rally but I don't even think it's used much there. I had a good link to a site about it, try checking google. It had stats about it..

Your average stock car off a dealership would not go 50km with a system like this before the exhaust system was completely destroyed...

I'm not 100% sure on the way it works but the general concept is to keep exhaust gases flowing at all times thus keeping your turbo spinning. I *think* it activates when you push in the clutch or let off the gas and what it does is keeps the pistons and stuff going, but the exhaust and intakes valves are momentarily open at the same time so you've got fuel travelling into the exhaust manifold where it detonates instead of inside the cylinder. This is the source of the popping noise and flames coming out the exhaust. I'm not sure if that's 100% correct.. if it's not I'm sure someone will correct me on it. I do know that it did involve detonations in the exhaust though and I think that was the reasoning. The detonations would keep the turbo spinning.

Ok, here's the link to the website all about it: http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/bangbang.html

Quote:

When the driver lifts his foot from the gas pedal the ignition timing is altered with sometimes 40° or more of delay (retard) and the intake air and fuel supply mixture is made richer. The inlet butterfly is kept slightly open or an air injector is used to maintain air supply to the engine. This results in air/fuel mixture that keeps getting in the combustion chambers when the driver no longer accelerates. The ignition being delayed, the air/fuel mixture reaches the exhaust tubes mostly unburned. When the spark plug fires, the exhaust valve is starting to open due to the ignition delay mentioned above. Additionally, the exhaust temperature being extremely high, the unburned fuel explodes at the contact of the exhaust tubes. Luckily the turbo sits right there and the explosion keeps it turning (otherwise it would slow down since its intake, the exhaust gases, is cut-off). The effect is vastly lower response times with some downsides.

It works by altering the ignition timing.

pruto · 05-12-2003, 03:31 PM

haha, ouch...

be nice, without Initial D fans we wouldn't have so many newbies and site traffic...

i like the explanation given on this website, not sure if its 100% correct, but it sounds good.
http://www.northarc.com/~edkwon/turbo.html

*transient* · 05-12-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pruto
[B]haha, ouch...

be nice, without Initial D fans we wouldn't have so many newbies and site traffic...

What's your point?

Rennen · 05-12-2003, 04:17 PM

Its a fairly cool idea, but I'm sure that would tear up your valuable turbo parts in a hurry, plus wouldn't part of the explosion run back into the open exhaust valve and be counter productive.

Anyway, its cool stuff I heard one on a rally car at the 100 Acre Wood SCCA pro-rally held near my hometown. pics It just sounds like the car has really bad timing and backfires all the time.

-Matt

aa87 · 05-12-2003, 04:35 PM

Arent rev limiters along the same lines, or are they just for the really nice bangs and flames? Or do they actually serve a purpose.

ruf · 05-12-2003, 04:57 PM

Spark cut rev limiters are the same idea, but they do it when you're ON the gas and hit the limiter. It's safer than a fuel cut rev limiter because it won't lean out like a fuel cut. 2-stage rev-limiter is nice for consistent drag launches. Hold it at a pre-determined rpm for launch until everything is hooked up, then release for full band.

Anti-lag systems do it when you're off the gas and rpm drops.

azn_romeox · 05-12-2003, 08:21 PM

The reason why a daily driver or to mention any car thats not ment for racing use would use this is because you'd need to keep on rebuilding your engine. It takes a whole out out of your engine, your turbo, and the rest of the car. it does sound cool but serves no purpose.

*AceInHole* · 05-12-2003, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by azn_romeox
It takes a whole out out of your engine, your turbo, and the rest of the car.

uhh... a system on the exhaust manifold is going to hurt the entire car?? it'll hurt the engine as much as any amount of boost would. the systems it wears at are the exhaust and turbine.

Quote:

it does sound cool but serves no purpose.

You're saying it serves no purpose after a few people described it's purpose??

Quote:

Your average stock car off a dealership would not go 50km with a system like this before the exhaust system was completely destroyed...

But.... the average stock car isn't turbocharged at all. European Ford Escort (Cosworths? I forget which... but one of the rally editions) came with misfiring systems from the factory.

This topic has DEFINITELY been gone over before. So... I say: the next time it comes up, we officially get to treat it like an OT thread and flame away.

RanciD · 05-12-2003, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AceInHole
But.... the average stock car isn't turbocharged at all. European Ford Escort (Cosworths? I forget which... but one of the rally editions) came with misfiring systems from the factory.

Sorry.. I thought it was common sense only a turbocharged car would be equipped with one. The Escort is impressive, but one car of hundreds isn't quite average.

chuki180 · 05-12-2003, 11:36 PM

I have the techtom IIC-460 Misfiring system on my 1993 180sx. It is used for drag racing so that i can launch at full boost. You turn it on and set it to a certain rpm, I use 5000, though i have seen a gtr with it set to 9700 rpm. You push the clutch in and floor it. At that rpm the system will start to misfire your engine causing more exhaust flow which in turn spools you turbine. At 5000 rpm i can launch at .8 boost. My max is 1.9 so If i catch good traction off the line i am almost fully spooled by the time the guy i am racing has even hit positive boost. It is really cool to hear you turbine spool up at standstill but it takes a big toll on you piston rings and such. Just use it sparingly and you will not have a problem.

Strider · 05-13-2003, 01:35 AM

Hey Chuki180, how much was this IIC-460 Misfiring system you speak of. And where did you get it from. Ohh, and how many times have you replaced your piston rings because of it.

willcheung · 05-13-2003, 02:47 AM

"Misu farein sistan plus yon W D" Said Kyuichi from intial D. I though miss fireing system have the extra ignitor spark plug locate inside the exhaust manifold, it control by vaccum, it fires when gas pedal is let off to create explosion to keep the turbo spin. Heard it from some forum back in the good old days

MNR-Chicago_S13 · 05-13-2003, 07:57 AM

hm a cool new mod.

Dousan_PG · 05-13-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MNR-Chicago_S13
hm a cool new mod.

actually its pretty old. maybe new to you, as well as many others.

*transient* · 05-13-2003, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by willcheung
"Misu farein sistan plus yon W D" Said Kyuichi from intial D. I though miss fireing system have the extra ignitor spark plug locate inside the exhaust manifold, it control by vaccum, it fires when gas pedal is let off to create explosion to keep the turbo spin. Heard it from some forum back in the good old days

No need for a spark plug in the exhaust manifold. The heat generated by the engine ignites the fuel easily enough.

Firelance · 05-13-2003, 12:29 PM

Some haltechs and other engine management programs offer misfireing systems. It's only an electronic change. All it does is retard your ignition timing and increase your injector output I think. It's also called ALS or anti-lag system.

ruf · 05-13-2003, 01:44 PM

Do a search and you'll find a lot of information on this. I made a lengthy post a while ago.

There are 2 types of "mis-firing" systems. One is an anti-lag system like the WRC cars use. These require SERIOUS modifications and maintenance. The other is a 2-stage rev-limiter commonly used in drag racing. The Techtom unit and Bee-R unit fall under this category.

Dousan_PG · 05-13-2003, 01:51 PM

ruf's threads info..etc

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...threadid=18124

http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...threadid=13001

05-12-2003, 02:46 PM	#1
Red89AllStockBiotch Leaky Injector Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 72 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	mis-fireing system when what where why...any and all info would help, just sum it up if you could please...thanks __________________ Me: "Vanilla Coke, it's like regular coke till you swallow it, and then you say "Ooooh...Vanilla"" Mike: "I don't like it though, but the Vanilla Coke Slurpy is good at 7-11"

05-12-2003, 03:25 PM	#3
Chokets Endless Knights Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: NOVA Posts: 231 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	keeps the boost up/constant __________________ K.A.H. -so then i tell'er "yeah, honey, you're on the list, but i moved you way to the bottom!"

05-12-2003, 03:31 PM	#5
pruto Zilvia Addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Age: 43 Posts: 982 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	haha, ouch... be nice, without Initial D fans we wouldn't have so many newbies and site traffic... i like the explanation given on this website, not sure if its 100% correct, but it sounds good. http://www.northarc.com/~edkwon/turbo.html __________________ Paul Black and Red

05-12-2003, 04:17 PM	#7
Rennen Zilvia Addict Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Stafford, VA Age: 42 Posts: 882 Trader Rating: (0) Rides Gallery: Rennen Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Its a fairly cool idea, but I'm sure that would tear up your valuable turbo parts in a hurry, plus wouldn't part of the explosion run back into the open exhaust valve and be counter productive. Anyway, its cool stuff I heard one on a rally car at the 100 Acre Wood SCCA pro-rally held near my hometown. pics It just sounds like the car has really bad timing and backfires all the time. -Matt __________________ '89 Nissan 240SX fastback: #23 DSP/RallyMod2/Track Slut '95 BMW 540i 6 speed: Ultimate Commuting Machine PFM Racing www.solo2.org www.midwest240sx.com

05-13-2003, 01:35 AM	#14
Strider Zilvia Junkie Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: SoCal, Corona Posts: 461 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Hey Chuki180, how much was this IIC-460 Misfiring system you speak of. And where did you get it from. Ohh, and how many times have you replaced your piston rings because of it. __________________ I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer.

05-12-2003, 02:55 PM	#2
zspturbo BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: saint louis Posts: 160 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	just get done watching some emperor episodes of initial D?

05-12-2003, 04:35 PM	#8
aa87 Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Shreveport, LA Age: 37 Posts: 1,116 Trader Rating: (1) Feedback Score: 1 reviews	Arent rev limiters along the same lines, or are they just for the really nice bangs and flames? Or do they actually serve a purpose.

05-12-2003, 04:57 PM	#9
ruf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Reflex Racing, Los Angeles,TX Posts: 1,160 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Spark cut rev limiters are the same idea, but they do it when you're ON the gas and hit the limiter. It's safer than a fuel cut rev limiter because it won't lean out like a fuel cut. 2-stage rev-limiter is nice for consistent drag launches. Hold it at a pre-determined rpm for launch until everything is hooked up, then release for full band. Anti-lag systems do it when you're off the gas and rpm drops.

05-12-2003, 08:21 PM	#10
azn_romeox Zilvia Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 288 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	The reason why a daily driver or to mention any car thats not ment for racing use would use this is because you'd need to keep on rebuilding your engine. It takes a whole out out of your engine, your turbo, and the rest of the car. it does sound cool but serves no purpose.

05-12-2003, 11:36 PM	#13
chuki180 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 1 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	I have the techtom IIC-460 Misfiring system on my 1993 180sx. It is used for drag racing so that i can launch at full boost. You turn it on and set it to a certain rpm, I use 5000, though i have seen a gtr with it set to 9700 rpm. You push the clutch in and floor it. At that rpm the system will start to misfire your engine causing more exhaust flow which in turn spools you turbine. At 5000 rpm i can launch at .8 boost. My max is 1.9 so If i catch good traction off the line i am almost fully spooled by the time the guy i am racing has even hit positive boost. It is really cool to hear you turbine spool up at standstill but it takes a big toll on you piston rings and such. Just use it sparingly and you will not have a problem.

05-13-2003, 02:47 AM	#15
willcheung Zilvia Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Socal Rancho Cucamonga, California Age: 43 Posts: 243 Trader Rating: (3) Feedback Score: 3 reviews	"Misu farein sistan plus yon W D" Said Kyuichi from intial D. I though miss fireing system have the extra ignitor spark plug locate inside the exhaust manifold, it control by vaccum, it fires when gas pedal is let off to create explosion to keep the turbo spin. Heard it from some forum back in the good old days __________________ Intake, Exhaust, Header are the way to go

05-13-2003, 07:57 AM	#16
MNR-Chicago_S13 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago Age: 39 Posts: 30 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	hm a cool new mod. __________________ Booya kasha! Respect! - Ali G

05-13-2003, 12:29 PM	#19
Firelance Leaky Injector Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 84 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Some haltechs and other engine management programs offer misfireing systems. It's only an electronic change. All it does is retard your ignition timing and increase your injector output I think. It's also called ALS or anti-lag system.

05-13-2003, 01:44 PM	#20
ruf Zilvia FREAK! Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Reflex Racing, Los Angeles,TX Posts: 1,160 Trader Rating: (0) Feedback Score: 0 reviews	Do a search and you'll find a lot of information on this. I made a lengthy post a while ago. There are 2 types of "mis-firing" systems. One is an anti-lag system like the WRC cars use. These require SERIOUS modifications and maintenance. The other is a 2-stage rev-limiter commonly used in drag racing. The Techtom unit and Bee-R unit fall under this category.

05-13-2003, 01:51 PM	#21
Dousan_PG Post Whore! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Orange County, California Age: 46 Posts: 16,640 Trader Rating: (23) Rides Gallery: Dousan_PG Feedback Score: 23 reviews	ruf's threads info..etc http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...threadid=18124 http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.p...threadid=13001 __________________ Aaron Pink GodziRa www.geocities.com/pink_godzira