Rack & Pinion, discussion

[sleepyS14se]

I would like to start a discussion regarding the steering rack in out S chassis cars. I have been doing some research on them and reading any and all info i could find.

As of right now my rack is leaking and is in need of new bellows. I am considering rebuilding it myself considering I do not trust the chinese and mexican companies who rebuild them (for example A1 cardone). I have read tons of pages in the steering angle, suspension etc thread and I didn't see where anyone actually state what rack they are using (as in a rebuilt rack, still using the oem one running on luck, or rebuilt it themselves, etc)


I figured we could have a discussion strictly on rack and pinions to help those like myself and others whether they are looking to replace, repair, rebuild or modify their rack.

Has anyone torn one down and rebuilt it themselves?

[sleepyS14se]

ok Nissan does NOT Sell the seal kit anymore for the S14

gates part # 348675 rack kit
gates # 348401 pump seal kit

[sleepyS14se]

? anyone ever rebuild their rack and maybe have some pics of how to do it?

[coupesallday!]

http://zilvia.net/f/s-chassis/366253...l-rebuild.html
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/125577...ck-pinion.html
rebuilding the power steering rack? - Nissan 240SX Forums
Looks like you're better off get a reman or delete the power steering...good luck

[Alamo_City_210]

i havent browsed through that section but doesnt the FSM show you how to rebuild it? on work cpu so i cant check.

[sleepyS14se]

i refuse to get a reman rack. I am at a auto parts warehouse and all i carry is A1 cardone and i know they are BS cause they come back as defective all the time!

[Nissansota240]

I got a re manufactured rack through sears/ or whoever my friend that work there goes through about 2 years ago. Have had absolutely no issues with it.

Also for what its worth, I have an s14 rack, tien inners, gktech rack spacer, SPL outers, cut knuckles, 25mm extended lower control arms, also run a small power steering cooler. I have beat the shit out of this car/rack at the track, countless times going from lock to lock, spinning out, hitting shit, pretty much everything you could do to mess the rack up and its still doing fine.

Just spend the money and get one that is re manufactured.

[Juantwo3]

this would be a very good thread to build onto since i had the same questions and couldnt find any answers too

i ended up buying a rebuilt rack for $100 from a mom and pop rebuild shop.
it works well and doesnt leak!!!!

i have one issue but i belive it is my fault for i did not position the pinion and the teeth where off but other than that alls good

[sleepyS14se]

Originally Posted by Juantwo3

this would be a very good thread to build onto since i had the same questions and couldnt find any answers too

i ended up buying a rebuilt rack for $100 from a mom and pop rebuild shop.
it works well and doesnt leak!!!!

i have one issue but i belive it is my fault for i did not position the pinion and the teeth where off but other than that alls good

yeah i saw you posted about its position being off..

are you familiar with doing such jobs (R and R a rack n pinion)

I replied in another thread and suggested you take it to someone if you do not know what you are doing.

I have got this all planned out and i hope to be able to do a simply "re seal" job on my spare rack and throw it in and hope for the best.

I ordered the rebuild kit straight from Gates.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Juantwo3

this would be a very good thread to build onto since i had the same questions and couldnt find any answers too

i ended up buying a rebuilt rack for $100 from a mom and pop rebuild shop.
it works well and doesnt leak!!!!

i have one issue but i belive it is my fault for i did not position the pinion and the teeth where off but other than that alls good

Well, you've gotta center the rack before you install it. Far too many people, even "professional" mechanics, screw that up. To do that all you need is a sharpie and a set of channel-locks. Turn the rack all the way to full lock in one direction. On the 240's you need the inner tie rods installed since they are what actually stops the rack. Mark the splined shaft and the housing so the marks align when at full lock in that direction. Then you turn the rack all the way to full lock in the other direction and mark the housing again to align with the mark you already made on the splined shaft. Steering racks are almost always an awkward number of turns, so this is where it gets complicated. Now you've gotta split the difference between the two marks you made at full lock in either direction. Once you split that then you've gotta split the difference in overall turns. Once you install the rack you have to check and make sure it is centered. Do this by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock. The wheel should be in the same position, on the opposite side, when locked in either direction. I don't tighten the steering joint untill I've got the rack and wheel centered as it usually takes a try or two to get it right. From my experience 240's are never 100000000% centered, there's always a very small difference from side to side.



As for rebuilding your own rack, I'm an ASE certified master tech and even I wouldn't bother. It's really pretty simple, other than setting the pre-load on the rack gear. BUT it's always nice to be able to take it back and have it fixed if it's not right. Also finding the seal kits isn't easy since almost nobody does their own re-building anymore. Really getting a rack re-built is pretty cheap, around $100 without inner tie rods and boots, around $120-$150 with the inner tie rod ends and the bellows boots.

[Juantwo3]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Well, you've gotta center the rack before you install it. Far too many people, even "professional" mechanics, screw that up. To do that all you need is a sharpie and a set of channel-locks. Turn the rack all the way to full lock in one direction. On the 240's you need the inner tie rods installed since they are what actually stops the rack. Mark the splined shaft and the housing so the marks align when at full lock in that direction. Then you turn the rack all the way to full lock in the other direction and mark the housing again to align with the mark you already made on the splined shaft. Steering racks are almost always an awkward number of turns, so this is where it gets complicated. Now you've gotta split the difference between the two marks you made at full lock in either direction. Once you split that then you've gotta split the difference in overall turns. Once you install the rack you have to check and make sure it is centered. Do this by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock. The wheel should be in the same position, on the opposite side, when locked in either direction. I don't tighten the steering joint untill I've got the rack and wheel centered as it usually takes a try or two to get it right. From my experience 240's are never 100000000% centered, there's always a very small difference from side to side.



As for rebuilding your own rack, I'm an ASE certified master tech and even I wouldn't bother. It's really pretty simple, other than setting the pre-load on the rack gear. BUT it's always nice to be able to take it back and have it fixed if it's not right. Also finding the seal kits isn't easy since almost nobody does their own re-building anymore. Really getting a rack re-built is pretty cheap, around $100 without inner tie rods and boots, around $120-$150 with the inner tie rod ends and the bellows boots.

thanks!!! ima do it tomorrow, so busy wrenching on customers cars i never get a chance to work on my own.

[Frank_Jaeger]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Well, you've gotta center the rack before you install it. Far too many people, even "professional" mechanics, screw that up. To do that all you need is a sharpie and a set of channel-locks. Turn the rack all the way to full lock in one direction. On the 240's you need the inner tie rods installed since they are what actually stops the rack. Mark the splined shaft and the housing so the marks align when at full lock in that direction. Then you turn the rack all the way to full lock in the other direction and mark the housing again to align with the mark you already made on the splined shaft. Steering racks are almost always an awkward number of turns, so this is where it gets complicated. Now you've gotta split the difference between the two marks you made at full lock in either direction. Once you split that then you've gotta split the difference in overall turns. Once you install the rack you have to check and make sure it is centered. Do this by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock. The wheel should be in the same position, on the opposite side, when locked in either direction. I don't tighten the steering joint untill I've got the rack and wheel centered as it usually takes a try or two to get it right. From my experience 240's are never 100000000% centered, there's always a very small difference from side to side.



As for rebuilding your own rack, I'm an ASE certified master tech and even I wouldn't bother. It's really pretty simple, other than setting the pre-load on the rack gear. BUT it's always nice to be able to take it back and have it fixed if it's not right. Also finding the seal kits isn't easy since almost nobody does their own re-building anymore. Really getting a rack re-built is pretty cheap, around $100 without inner tie rods and boots, around $120-$150 with the inner tie rod ends and the bellows boots.

Is this functionally different than simply getting the rack close enough to center out of the car, installing it, connecting the steering column, and then adjusting the steering wheel to center? That's what I've always done and it seems easier.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Frank_Jaeger

Is this functionally different than simply getting the rack close enough to center out of the car, installing it, connecting the steering column, and then adjusting the steering wheel to center? That's what I've always done and it seems easier.

To me it's easier to pre-center the rack before installation because it's a PITA to screw with the rack joint a bunch after installation. On 240's it's not that bad unless you're WAY off, but on other cars it's a SERIOUS PITA. What you're describing is essentially the same process, just with a little less effort pre-installation and a little more post-installation.

[koukis13]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Well, you've gotta center the rack before you install it. Far too many people, even "professional" mechanics, screw that up. To do that all you need is a sharpie and a set of channel-locks. Turn the rack all the way to full lock in one direction. On the 240's you need the inner tie rods installed since they are what actually stops the rack. Mark the splined shaft and the housing so the marks align when at full lock in that direction. Then you turn the rack all the way to full lock in the other direction and mark the housing again to align with the mark you already made on the splined shaft. Steering racks are almost always an awkward number of turns, so this is where it gets complicated. Now you've gotta split the difference between the two marks you made at full lock in either direction. Once you split that then you've gotta split the difference in overall turns. Once you install the rack you have to check and make sure it is centered. Do this by turning the steering wheel from lock to lock. The wheel should be in the same position, on the opposite side, when locked in either direction. I don't tighten the steering joint untill I've got the rack and wheel centered as it usually takes a try or two to get it right. From my experience 240's are never 100000000% centered, there's always a very small difference from side to side.



As for rebuilding your own rack, I'm an ASE certified master tech and even I wouldn't bother. It's really pretty simple, other than setting the pre-load on the rack gear. BUT it's always nice to be able to take it back and have it fixed if it's not right. Also finding the seal kits isn't easy since almost nobody does their own re-building anymore. Really getting a rack re-built is pretty cheap, around $100 without inner tie rods and boots, around $120-$150 with the inner tie rod ends and the bellows boots.

Thank you for the knowledge and everyone else that contributed!!

[PoorMans180SX]

I see this question come up and then and I never really see a good answer, everyone seems to have a local place do it.

I would first try and fine some place local, that way if it's not right you have someone to go back and talk to face to face.

On the other hand it would be nice if someone knew of a place to purchase online that offered high-quality rebuilds. I'd never run an A1 Cardone rack either, I've seen wayyyyy too many of those fail multiple times.

[sleepyS14se]

I can get a A1 reman for 141..i may just do it.

[aymaeid]

Originally Posted by sleepyS14se

I can get a A1 reman for 141..i may just do it.

Dont waste your money or time. spend the extra $ and avoid having to replace it another time.

[sleepyS14se]

Originally Posted by aymaeid

Dont waste your money or time. spend the extra $ and avoid having to replace it another time.

are you recommending me rebuild the rack or replace it

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by Juantwo3

thanks!!! ima do it tomorrow, so busy wrenching on customers cars i never get a chance to work on my own.

I DEFINITELY understand that!

Originally Posted by sleepyS14se

are you recommending me rebuild the rack or replace it

I think he's recommending finding a more reliable source. I would find a small shop in your area that does re-builds. The price would likely be a little cheaper and if you've got a problem you can talk to an actual person about it.

[Frank_Jaeger]

I'm in the same position. I keep blowing out the seals on my rack, I think because I'm running mad legit jdm Tein tierod spacers.

FRSport sells a rack that isn't Cardone:
FRSPORT 49200 53F00X Nissan Power Steering Rack & Pinion (lefthand S13) Rebuilt

If you have a core (which you obviously do), then this is a better place to get it, same part:
Nissan Steering Rack Complete Unit (240SX) - Maval 49200-53F00X | FCP Import

[Juantwo3]

Sooo i centered the rack, and its just as it was before. thanks again @ racepar1

[sleepyS14se]

hell, you would think the damn rack would have provisions made into them to allow the bushings to go in one way so that the rack was centered perfectly at the time it is bolted in..

odd design by nissan. lol

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by sleepyS14se

hell, you would think the damn rack would have provisions made into them to allow the bushings to go in one way so that the rack was centered perfectly at the time it is bolted in..

odd design by nissan. lol

A LOT of cars are like that, not just Nissan.

[sleepyS14se]

Originally Posted by racepar1

A LOT of cars are like that, not just Nissan.

you seem to know alot about this... can you PM me a phone number i can call you at. I was under my s14 doin the oil change today lookin at how fcked up my rack is leaking and from what i saw there is no way the rack could NOT be centered...hard to explain so if you dont mind pm me a ph number.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by sleepyS14se

you seem to know alot about this... can you PM me a phone number i can call you at. I was under my s14 doin the oil change today lookin at how fcked up my rack is leaking and from what i saw there is no way the rack could NOT be centered...hard to explain so if you dont mind pm me a ph number.

Centering the rack is only a concern when you replace it. It was centered at the factory before installation. If your rack appears original, AKA fucked up and leaking, then I doubt you have an issue with that. If it is a concern to you, just make sure the amount of turns from center to lock is the same in both directions with the steering wheel.

As for my #, I prefer not to give that information out, ESPECIALLY in public. If you have any further questions, regarding whatever, feel free to PM me any time.

[sleepyS14se]

Originally Posted by racepar1

Centering the rack is only a concern when you replace it. It was centered at the factory before installation. If your rack appears original, AKA fucked up and leaking, then I doubt you have an issue with that. If it is a concern to you, just make sure the amount of turns from center to lock is the same in both directions with the steering wheel.

As for my #, I prefer not to give that information out, ESPECIALLY in public. If you have any further questions, regarding whatever, feel free to PM me any time.

rack would have to be "centered" still. If it was removed and rebuilt like i am planning on doing it would still need to be centered.

I just don't see why more people do not just re seal their rack with new seals. It just doesn't seem that hard.

[codyace]

I know it's off topic, but I'd love to see if anyone has the part numbers for the seals that go in the 'upper' part of the rack, where the feed and return fittings are....I can't seem to find it.

[racepar1]

Originally Posted by codyace

I know it's off topic, but I'd love to see if anyone has the part numbers for the seals that go in the 'upper' part of the rack, where the feed and return fittings are....I can't seem to find it.

You mean the o-rings that go on the tubes between the fittings and the rack? I've always just matched them up with something close.

[codyace]

Originally Posted by racepar1

You mean the o-rings that go on the tubes between the fittings and the rack? I've always just matched them up with something close.

Ah, not those (as I do the same thing)

I'm talking about if you take the upper housing off the rack itself (the thing held on by the 3 bolts with the star shaped bolts, where the feed/return/crossover lines thread into) there is a seal on the very top part of it that goes around the splined shaft itself.

In order to weld fittings onto that part (if you don't want to seal with odd metic fittings that dont' ever really seal right), you need to know the upper housing bearing and that seal out, effectively ruining the seal.

I guess I could measure it up and see, but they deform so much when removing them that it's hard to get a proper measurement. Atop of that, I'm not sure how much pressure it needs to resist..if it's just a wiper seal cool, it seems to be just that

[sleepyS14se]

i got a gates part # 348675