coilover question

[TheSparo]

an someone tell me wut the diff is b/w ground control coilover vs more expensive ones, like cusco, and why one is more, would ground controls be good enough for road racing? or starting out?

[RBS14]

GC's are good but real coilovers are more expensive for a reason. the strut is built for the stiffer spring rate and is often shortened, lowering the car via the shorter strut, not harder, shorter springs. You can still drop a car on real coilovers by raising or lowering the perch like on gc's. the problem with raising or lowering the perch is that it effectively changes the spring rate by compressing or decompressing the spring. A friend of mine hade GC's and then got Tien HA's and said the difference was night and day. the other advantage of real coilovers is that the springs are often much longer than GC's thus providing a better ride quality too.

Here is the bottom line, save a bit more money and get a better setup that handles and feels better than GC's.

[TheSparo]

what would u recommend then? and what price range, if u'r just gonna prolly start 2 auto-x, and for a daily driver 2 school and back, work etc

[tnord]

Originally posted by RBS14
GC's are good but real coilovers are more expensive for a reason. the strut is built for the stiffer spring rate and is often shortened, lowering the car via the shorter strut, not harder, shorter springs. You can still drop a car on real coilovers by raising or lowering the perch like on gc's. the problem with raising or lowering the perch is that it effectively changes the spring rate by compressing or decompressing the spring. A friend of mine hade GC's and then got Tien HA's and said the difference was night and day. the other advantage of real coilovers is that the springs are often much longer than GC's thus providing a better ride quality too.

Here is the bottom line, save a bit more money and get a better setup that handles and feels better than GC's.

care to explain how you figure GC's to be "fake" coilovers???

[AceInHole]

Heh.... if you can find ANY 240sx that doesn't have coilovers, it must be a pretty trick car or be riding on airbags. (The stock configuration is a "coilover" setup)

Anyways, my biggest concern about getting something like teins is that shock absorbers are considered wear items.... so what do you do when you blow a shock valve in your $1000+ teins?? (answer: wait a few months while paying for shipping to and from tein, and pay for the rebuild).

[AKADriver]

Tein has opened a facility in the US to deal with that, I believe. That might be a deciding factor for anyone weighing the merits of the various pimpy JDM suspension setups. Shipping to Cali should take a lot less time than to Japan for a rebuild.

But I agree that a car that sees a lot of miles might want to bypass a full suspension setup.

[Dousan_PG]

gc he is saying are 'fake' because its not what most would consider a 'true' coilover. but they are coilovers because the 'coil' is over (around) the shock...anyways.

ground controls are good stuff. great company and can set up to your specs. dont knock them!!!!

i have Tein. blah. hate em.
go JIC! they can rebuild in the USA Too!!!!! 100 bucks a shock (same as tein iirc)
except tein is nicer.
i talked w/ JIC here (about other products they offer) in so cali and a bunch of pricks. i'd go tein just for that and have it revalved. considering to do that to mine but i'd rather dump the teins and get something nicer

dont like adjusting coilover/shocks or very specific on what you want and want to your specs: ground control
entry level lots of street and some track/auto x: tein
more serious track whore: jic

at least that's my .02 and preference.

id' say go ground control. been around for quite some time and know there stuff

[ruf]

That's weird. I couldn't get the JIC tech to stop talking when I called him. Can't remember his name. Sam? Oh well. We're probably going to with JIC for our drag car because they are so convenient to customize.

[tnord]

GC's not fit for track use........HA, wow, that's a good one. it's been a long day, i needed a good laugh. now it's time for 3.5 hour lecture.

[Dousan_PG]

i talked w/ kevin? i think was his name. really piece of work. nothing but a prick. ask him questions and he blew me off. i was interested in a seat and he flat out lied to me about stuff and their availability. very disappointed.

w/ tein, ask them and they take care of me. as much as i was dispapointed w/ the shock valving on the HEs, the company themselves were very helpful, in email and over the phone. offered suggestions and advice on things.

[Yoshi]

man, you're talkin smack about GC's in the wrong forum, many people here use them (could u guess I'm one of them?) They are race worthy setups that can be customized to your specs in 10lb increments, if you ask me, serious racers will have an advantage with GC's as they can take multiple sets of springs to the track to dial in their car with the best setup. They're also high quality Eibach produced springs, not OBX or dropzone or toucan or however many other ricer sleeve-type coils you can think of.

Don't know GC man, they have entirely too many trophies.

edit: dammit my typing goes to hell when I'm going fast

[ruf]

Just because a lot of people use them doesn't make them the proper choice for an application.

Spring rates don't matter. The problem is the stroke and the damping rate. Anyone can go and buy different spring rates for any suspension setup. The problem with GC is that you have to go and find a short stroke strut that has an appropriate damping rate within it's range of adjustability. For that price, you're almost to a nice set of "coilovers". The thing about the nicer models is that you can also adjust ride height without affecting spring preload or stroke.

The question is: is this overkill for the particular application?

[TheSparo]

wow, lotta info here, how much would a tein setup cost? i know that the GC's cost like $400. anyone have a website? so if i were to start out road racing, not very often (until i find out how much i can do it), which would be the better one to get? i would be using the car for reg. driving and street racing...+ auto-x would teins be overkill in this? or is gc good for road racing applications and daily driving?

[RBS14]

Call them what you want to call them. I am not trying to offend anyone! Yes tecnically all spring and shock setups are "coilovers". ten points for you. what do you think i would consider a "true" coilover? maybee a threaded shock body with a spring around it?! People take things way to personal. GC's are a great setup, but full coilovers are better. That was all i was trying to say.

[tnord]

"Spring rates don't matter."

before i get into the rest of your post, care to explain this particular comment?


maybee a threaded shock body with a spring around it?! People take things way to personal. GC's are a great setup, but full coilovers are better. That was all i was trying to say.

so a threaded sleeve with a damper inside is a fake coilover?? i don't get it. and why do you think "full" coilovers are better? got any logic behind this?

[RBS14]

The shock valving inside full coilovers is better equipped to deal with the higher spring rate. The shock on full coilovers is always performing at its maximun ability, versus a separate shock which is never performing at its maximum ability because it is compressed due to the lower stance of the car via the springs. The shaft on full coilovers is often larger in diameter than separate shocks, eliminating any flex in the shocks. Full coilovers also have a larger nitrogen capacity, lowering the overall heat of the nitrogen, creating less bubbles, making every piston stroke more efficient. When the piston is inefficient the shock is more easily compressed, making for bad performance.

Ride in a car with nice full coilovers and you will get the picture.

[drift freaq]

he shock valving inside full coilovers is better equipped to deal with the higher spring rate. The shock on full coilovers is always performing at its maximun ability, versus a separate shock which is never performing at its maximum ability because it is compressed due to the lower stance of the car via the springs. The shaft on full coilovers is often larger in diameter than separate shocks, eliminating any flex in the shocks. Full coilovers also have a larger nitrogen capacity, lowering the overall heat of the nitrogen, creating less bubbles, making every piston stroke more efficient. When the piston is inefficient the shock is more easily compressed, making for bad performance.

Ride in a car with nice full coilovers and you will get the picture.

hahhahahahha now this is funny. I have two friends here in California both own S14's . One has a RB25 Powered track S14 . He is running Ground Controls on Konis. The car is just sick in the handling department.
Ok my other friend lives in Sacremento He autocrosses his car. He has Ground Controls with specially valved Koni's. He wins in autocross and the course instructor at Laguna Seca said his car handled incrediable.
Now, I have talked to the Ground Control guys myself and they know what they are doing and have been putting together race winning suspensions for over 20 years. HMMMM not worthy? Did you know they took apart the GAB and the KYB AGX ? Exact same valving. You want specially valved Ground controls that are short stroke? run Koni's . Oh Ya another fact KYB ABX's are actually shorter stroke shocks than stock . I know this because I checked them out when I had them installed on my old car.
Anyways . Ground Controls are not bad. Period.
JIC great product but like dousan said the guys at JIC here in cali are kinda messed up . Tein USA is really good now in the customer support department.
nuff said

[RBS14]

Why is it that all purpouse built circuit cars run full coilovers? it must be because GC's are better. That makes sense. I never said GC's were bad. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and all of you are entitled to mine. HaHaHa

[ruf]

Spring rates don't matter because there are a number of different companies that can make high quality springs to whatever specifications you desire for a very affordable price.

If you can find a good set of short stroke shocks with the appropriate valving (or have them revalved) for your setup, then the there is absolutely nothing wrong with a GC kit. I just wouldn't go through the trouble. Hell, it might even cost more in the end.

[91CRXsiR]

is it safe to say that GC is a GOOD setup in fact the BEST for a SLEEVE coilover system .. best $$ can buy something like that...


BUUUTTTT A full Coilover system [ ones that comes w/ shocks ?] is a step further and has more eh.. option? and room for expansion as far as dampening and all that other good stuff..


fair?

so GC's prolly cost you around $400+350-450.00 = $750-850.00

tiens are around 1200.00 .. used ones are way cheaper and there are allot of people selling used tiens... where not allot of people i see are selling thier ground control setup.. [ ive looked dammit ]