Hmm food for thought on dampers

[RalliartRsX]

Well, I have been delving into the suspension setup I want for my 240. Well, I have been learning shock dynos, damper characteristics, ratio, etc. Dont know it, but learning, take note But, here is my food for thought.

The higher end manufacturers who make dampers for various International markets usually have the resources to exploit development in various countries around the world and the various damping charaterictics for the wide varieties of road. Now, I pretty much know for a fact that (take for example) the Japanese roads seem to be a fair bit smoother than say, the Northeast or west coats roads. Now, with this in mind, I have read that manufacturers take this into account when setting up dampers for different countries. Now, with the smoother roads, they can get away with a little more aggressiveness in rebound/bound. Now, this increase ofcourse increase harshness in various ways. Now, I am at the point of buying suspension and one of the things I wanted to keep to a minimum was overall harshness. Now, please dont flame for my next statement. I want to get some coilovers (preferably used being poor and all ) and one of the options I have seen is coils made for 'JDM' (sigh) market.

Now, here is are my worries. Wont the higher end coils take this varying road characteristic into mind when producing the various dampers??

[gotta240]

i'm not sure... Interesting thought though...

HOWEVER, most high end shocks are becoming fully adjustable...therefore you adjust it to suit your needs.

As far as the daily driving on ruff roads....I have apexi world sports(non-adjustable) and they work pretty well, and aren't too ruff. Some people hate them, and i have yet to figure out why!

[chmercer]

thinking too hard

get 8/6 spring adjustable shocks

no sweat

[rsxrcr87]

i have world sports also and the roads here SUCK the coilovers handle it and they autocrossed well

[RalliartRsX]

The problem with the adjustability statement is that most high end/lower price (less than 1500) seem to not have independent bound/rebound adjustment. But, even so, if the dampers are valved more agressively, even on the softer setting, wont things still be a bit more, ehhh, bone jarring??

Yeah, I may be over thinking things, but, its fun figuring things out and learning all sorts of things crap in between

[Omarius Maximus]

your talking theory. Theoretically X manufacturer is supposed to do Y to their coilovers for the U.S market. Is this the case? we don't know for sure, its speculation at this point. The most you can really do is go for rides in other peoples cars. But seeing as how you live in Jamaica, you might be SOL. Sooooo really all you can do is read reviews and look at forums to see whether whatever coilover setup your interested in is harsh or not.

[Jung918]

Some companies keep in mind the road quality of other countries and change the dampening/springs to compensate. I know Tein is doing this for there Mono Flex for the Evo MR. Also, I would suggest purchasing new coilovers so that you know what kind of condition they are in.

[atom]

You might have a point in theory but the fact is most mid to high end coilovers are designed for track use, therefore daily drivability is an afterthought at most. Most all coilovers are harsh compared to stock or shock/spring combos, so you just gotta deal with it. Or buy softer springs.

[RalliartRsX]

Well, to an extent not speculation as I have read a few manufacturers who do this, hence raising the question. So, I know its being done, but just curious as to how much of a difference it is between a US version and a equivalent 'JDM' (man, sorry, hate that word arggg) version.

As for dealing with harshness, I am more than willing to deal with it as harshness is mostly dependent on damping specs and then spring rates. My previous car had some koni yellows with 500lb spring and that thing was a beauty to drive. Granted it wasnt a daily grind, but, if need be, it could have been. But I also understand that koni has to be one of the best makers of dampers period and thats simply because of the valving on the darned things.

As for buying new, when your a college student, money flow is an errr, issue

I just raised this question as mostly something to think about

P.S I currently done reside in JA but in the Northeast

[yokotas13]

FIrst of all
Ralliart has nothign to do with hondas

now that that is said

No the JDM market coils that tein makes (for instance) are no different than the ones you get from you local ricer mart. They are all shipped from the same place from the same shelf

Get yourself a set of Megan Track coils, (or street) KTS, Silkroad etc and play with the preload and dampning until you find what you like
its not gonna be a bolt on and go application, you need to play with it and figure out what yuo want to do

[RalliartRsX]

FIrst of all
Ralliart has nothign to do with hondas

??? If you want to know what my name means all you gotta do is ask
I was (and still am) a big mitsu guy and fell in love with the evo series. Over the in UK, the mitsu tuning house known as Ralliart made a special edition package for the evo called the RSX450. This was a package that was mostly applied to the evo 4-6 series of cars (forged internals, increased boost, fuel, etc.) Thats basically the origins of my name. And whats up with the honda comment??

I for sure know its not going to be a bolt on and go affair. But, I think you have completely missed my point. Its all from a valving perspective on the dampers. Simple.

[mr_240sx]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

??? If you want to know what my name means all you gotta do is ask
I was (and still am) a big mitsu guy and fell in love with the evo series. Over the in UK, the mitsu tuning house known as Ralliart made a special edition package for the evo called the RSX450. This was a package that was mostly applied to the evo 4-6 series of cars (forged internals, increased boost, fuel, etc.) Thats basically the origins of my name. And whats up with the honda comment??

I for sure know its not going to be a bolt on and go affair. But, I think you have completely missed my point. Its all from a valving perspective on the dampers. Simple.

well now that we got everything straightened out.... can we just get along for atleast a day?

[RalliartRsX]

No no, I think you misunderstood. Not taking a shot at him or anything. Just wanted to clarify what I was saying so no hard feelings on this front

Hope the feeling is mutual

[yudalicious]

I think you're thinking way too much, although at least it's good you're one of the few that take time to learn. You say you came from KONIs w/ 500lb springs, so I think any quality 8/6, 7/5 set up will work fine and will be surprisingly comfortable, and if you're really worried about it, you can get less spring with w/e coilovers you choose.

Sure, having degressive valving and the ability to adjust rebound/bump separetely or adjust rebound w/o bump is nice in theory, I think it gets taken way out of context. Unless you're very competitive in some sort of auto racing, I really wouldn't worry about it that much. Plus, as far as I know, shock valving is really not as black/white as most ppl believe it to be, there's alot of schools of thought on this, it's really hard to have a "cover all" set up short of spending 5k+ on custom shocks IMO.

[RalliartRsX]

Appreciate the response

Yeah, maybe thinking too hard. But, it was one of those many ' what ifs ' that I just wondered about and wanted to see what would happen when thought about aloud

And boy do I agree about it not being black and white. I think its more of a black art

[r-b-x]

what is that you are looking for in a set of dampers? street? track? compromised balance?

i also tend to think that higher end coilovers, no matter what brand are going to be harsher on the street since they were valved with higher spring rates in mind. sure they have adjustability, but i doubt the range will be from lexus smooth to race ready in a single sweep. plus you have to consider it with springs rates since they also contribute to harshness. a harder spring will be more unyielding to bumps than a softer one.

i'm starting to think a customized set of koni yellows may be best all around. in off-the-shelf form, they kinda suck for the s chassis and why i balked at them before. but if you can find a used set (right up your alley) and all all the bells and whistle (revalved, shortened, add your own mounts, rears made externally adjustable), that'd be a pretty good set up. but by that time i'm not sure how far away you are from getting one of koni's double adjustable ones.

[RalliartRsX]

I have called up koni and the guy who pointed me in the direction for my old car helped me out with pricing. By the time its all said and done, your better off getting the koni double adjustable, external reservoir, etc setup. Looking at easily 250-500 per corner to convert the dampers to what I wanted (and that doesnt include buying the damper and shipping costs). Not worth it when its going to be a daily driven machine with sporadic auto-x involvment.

[Jason@performance]

the manufacturers' usually offer different spec's of setups...

TANABE has a HARD version of their kits that has a higher spring rate etc...


TEIN has 2 versions of their flex for the Z33... One with 12K FR / RR that is regularly stocked in the US market, and 10K FR / RR that is regularly stocked for the JDM market... but can order it either way...

But, you will see with most setups there is usually a softer set up and a harsher set up......

[Ian]

On a 240sx the 8/6 spring rate combo is really well tested...There's a reason most companies go with it. It works.


If you're worried about cost, get megan racing coilovers. I got them and used them for a year and a half...now that I can afford something a little nicer, I'm stepping up to Stance. In another year and a half, I'll be able to afford something even better, and I'll get that.

The Megans were daily driven on for much of that period of time. I kept the dampers full stiff like that too.

If you're worried about it, don't lower your car TOO much and keep the dampers full soft, you'll still get alot of travel and it won't be uncomfortable.

[mr_240sx]

well i got my gr-6's on my s13 and love them!!! i got them at full stiff as well. the only thing i dont like with them is going over train tracks and pot holes! but thats to be expected with any coil-over and 18's with 35 series sidewalls on a 10inch wide rim heeh

[drift freaq]

Well I am putting together a set of Koni coilovers. I picked up a set of used Koni Yellows for a good price. Contrary to what someone else on here said, Koni Yellows will still perform decently at a 1.75-,2inch drop. Now I do not Know where most of you live, but were I am in Los Angeles dropping a car 2 inchs or lower is just nuts period, due to the road conditions. I figured I would run this setup for the time being for the fun of it. I will say that I have looked into the whole performance Koni double adjustable thing for our cars. Its just not worth it. Unless you have serious sponsorship, to setup or buy Koni's like that for our cars, it is more expensive than a set of KTS or Stance coilovers. 90% of the people on this forum do not need much more than that. On top of that there are several serious drifters here, with commited track cars running the Stances. For the price that setup really cannot be beat. I will probably pick up a set of Stances for my next setup.

[yudalicious]

Originally Posted by RalliartRsX

I have called up koni and the guy who pointed me in the direction for my old car helped me out with pricing. By the time its all said and done, your better off getting the koni double adjustable, external reservoir, etc setup. Looking at easily 250-500 per corner to convert the dampers to what I wanted (and that doesnt include buying the damper and shipping costs). Not worth it when its going to be a daily driven machine with sporadic auto-x involvment.

I looked into KONIs too while I was deciding set ups. According to KONI the Yellows aren't height sensitive (within a reasonable range) and since OTS they can handle up to 500 lbs, I figured I could buy a set of new Yellows ($600, you try finding a set of used ones for a 240sx, they're just so rare), convert the rears to external adj. (iirc $~200), ground controls ($400) and that comes out to $1200 without camber plates, I decided it just wasn't worth it since there's so many readily kits out there that will get the job done.

[vvtisupra]

you want cheap and good KTS or Stance and call it a day. Save your thinking energy and use it more on driving the end

[RalliartRsX]

^^^

lol.

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