s13 brakes: good pads vs. z32's with whatever pads

[Fat Felix]

Looking for advice from people who track their car.. I don't really care for advice that comes from driving the car hard on the street, thanks though.

So I need new brakes soon... pretty damn soon, and I was just pondering...

setup 1: stock non-abs s13 brakes with decent pads such as Hawk HP+.

setup 2: z32 with some cheapo performance friction(with lifetime warranty) from autozone.

setup 3: q45 calipers with cheapo performance friction pads.

Assuming all three setups use the same brake fluid, lines, bleed, Toyo T1r or slightly better tires, and blank rotors.. Which will perform the best at the track(I've only done grip events so far)? Please also take into consideration that the car will be daily driven as well... MEANING: the car will see track days a few times a year, and also be my daily driver.

It should be obvious that the z32 brakes with z32 master cylinder and some good quality pads will be the best, but I'm a broke ass and trying to get the most for the little amount of money I have.

Just getting some decent pads for my setup would probably be the cheapest, but not too much room to upgrade in the future.


So experienced people, please advise.

[TipStylez]

The stocks are good. Stick with them.

Dont waste your money on Bigger calipers if your not gonna be doing some type of racing where you would need that stoping power.

If you want to stop faster, worry about your tires.

[JSpecBnr32]

fuck stock brakes, get z32's, there cheap you get extra cool points if u have them and the chicks dig them or get q45's if u have baller wheels and u need the clearence.

[FaLKoN240]

I think if you get Q45 and get decent pads, you're looking at the all around better performer, I remember reading somewhere it uses stock brake lines, so that saves you $50 buying Z32 conversion lines.

I'm gonna try to look around for some Q45 pads.

[Replicant_S14]

Originally Posted by Fat Felix

setup 1: stock non-abs s13 brakes with decent pads such as Hawk HP+.

I use Hawk HP+ on stock, non-abs brakes for track days. They modulate well, exceed the cars/tires ability to adhere, and if I use them correctly, they don't overheat. The only reason I can think of for having Z brakes is that the pads are easier to change, and I'm guessing the 2 pot design would wear the pads more evenly (my 1 pot stockers wear the leading edge more than the trailing edge). If I could get a set for next to nothing, and have a non-janky e-brake, I might go for it.

...oh also, HP+s are noisy bastards.

[Neejay]

For your application + financial situation, I'd go with stock brakes (possibly brembo blanks) + better pads (Hawk HPS).

Or the other alternative: Altima rotors + Maxima calipers/pads (JDM 180sx setup). The rotors are way larger than ABS 240sx rotors.

[cdlong]

if you are driving the car on the street you should consider cold stopping ability. high temp track pads (not sure if the HP+ is in that category or not) don't stop well when cold and some have excessive wear when cold also. pretty much every stop in street driving is a cold stop. you could buy two sets of pads for the stock system and swap them out at the track.

[yudalicious]

If you can get the bigger brakes for a cheap price, then I would do that. But I would still use a decent pad like the Hawk HPS or Axxis Ultimates at least.

Otherwise, stock brakes with something like a HP+ or another dual duty pad would be good, it is what I'm using. And I'm also planning to do some ducting later on when I see the need.

[Replicant_S14]

Originally Posted by cdlong

if you are driving the car on the street you should consider cold stopping ability. high temp track pads (not sure if the HP+ is in that category or not) don't stop well when cold and some have excessive wear when cold also. pretty much every stop in street driving is a cold stop. you could buy two sets of pads for the stock system and swap them out at the track.

HP+s are supposed to be a compromise. Even so they have a slight lag that feels strange at first. After a little driving it feels natural. I swap pads (street/track) but it's only because the HP+s groan and squeal and it's annoying in traffic.

[SoSideways]

The HP+ pads are designed for the street and some track events.

It doesn't suck completely in the cold like race pads do.

[S13 Charlie]

I agree with most of what's been said, but I'm still going to chime in. I have Z32 calipers up front and stock everything else. I dig the setup, it's not perfect but I'll probably update to a Z32 MC and that's supposed to help with brake bias. I can definitely lock up the front tires, if I jam on the brakes. In hindsight, I probably would rather have gone for the Q45 brakes, as it opens up the option for baller-status wheels, but that's a minor gripe.

[SoSideways]

If you have an S13, go with the Z32 front calipers and S14 rear calipers and you should achieve near stock S13 brake bias (somewhere around 70% front and 30% rear).

If you have S14, then just throw the Z32 fronts on and you're good to go.

S14 rear calipers have bigger pistons than the S13 calipers, thus the more balanced braking for the S14s than S13s if you just swapped front brakes out.

[drew935]

shoot for now, just upgrade the rotors with slotted and pads. You can do a full upgrade when you have the funds available to do it right. oh yeah, bleed the brakes.

[Healtoeae86]

Porterfield rs4 or r4s i forget which it is, but i use that for my track car and my street car.

I just use blank rotors from my corner autoparts store. Rears were $9 per rotor and fronts were $12 per rotor. I have yet to have anything bad happen with "no name" rotors, so if your on a budget, theres an option for you.

[!Zar!]

Project Mu anybody? haha


You should get HP+ pads f/r for now.

Then when you have money, get something better.

No point wasting money now for something you will only be satisfied with since you don't have alot of funds.

[Irukandji]

I ran stock brakes all last season. They were okay, but I got tons of brake fade. I was running Axxis Ultimates on stock calipers w/ napa rotors.

If you go to a junkyard, you can find Q45 calipers for around $40.
My q45's feel 10x better than my stock brakes... no regrets.
Easy Easy.

[FaLKoN240]

What did you need to do the brakes Ben? Did you get aftermarket pads?

[OptionZero]

First of all, I don't hear anything bout upgrading the rears. If that's the case, then stick to the stockers so you don't fuck up your brake balance. Also, since you're on the cheap, getting an MC is probably going to cost you even more, and without it, you're not getting the full performance of larger calipers anyways

Second...are you running stockish power? I don't think a stock KA will get to such speeds where your stock calipers will be completely overwhelmed, espcially if you're starting out.

Third...tires dictate how well you brake, moreso than anything else. Screw the toyos, get RT's or MX's.

Stick to your stockers, get stainless steel lines, Porterfield R4-S (tell them you're a member of NASA and get 20% off, they are located in CA so you'll have 'em in 3 days or less. Pick up some blank rotors, invest the rest in rubber.

[markyboi]

go q45...a lot cheaper than z's

[TAMTANIUM]

felix's car is not stock hp

Last time at the track his car put down close to 450whp. He was eating porsche and ferrari all day long with his suspension setup. At one turn his brakes failed on him and he spun out at big willow

[Eddie@Performance]

Z32 brakes: better pad selections, thick 30mm rotors, 4 pistons of fury I have a set for sale, i noticed you are local..

Originally Posted by Fat Felix

Looking for advice from people who track their car.. I don't really care for advice that comes from driving the car hard on the street, thanks though.

So I need new brakes soon... pretty damn soon, and I was just pondering...

setup 1: stock non-abs s13 brakes with decent pads such as Hawk HP+.

setup 2: z32 with some cheapo performance friction(with lifetime warranty) from autozone.

setup 3: q45 calipers with cheapo performance friction pads.

Assuming all three setups use the same brake fluid, lines, bleed, Toyo T1r or slightly better tires, and blank rotors.. Which will perform the best at the track(I've only done grip events so far)? Please also take into consideration that the car will be daily driven as well... MEANING: the car will see track days a few times a year, and also be my daily driver.

It should be obvious that the z32 brakes with z32 master cylinder and some good quality pads will be the best, but I'm a broke ass and trying to get the most for the little amount of money I have.

Just getting some decent pads for my setup would probably be the cheapest, but not too much room to upgrade in the future.


So experienced people, please advise.

[OptionZero]

if you're willing to spend the money to get 450hp, then you should spend to do better than stock 13 brakes. Sell or do whatever you need, but at least step up to 3z fronts, s14 rear, 3z MC and good tires.

[Irukandji]

Originally Posted by 240FaLKoN

What did you need to do the brakes Ben? Did you get aftermarket pads?

SS lines
Axxis Ultimate pads
napa blanks


I'm not sure if you're talking about my q45s. They bolt straight on. Used the rotors and pads Optionzero gave me. I don't drive very much since I'm in school so during summer I'll get better pads/rotors.


If you don't want to get a z32 mc, just get q45 calipers, they work great with the stock mc. Also you don't need to deal with conversion lines.

[markyboi]

well he said cheap upgrade, so i was thinking of the q45's


a set of q45 calipers, rotors, and pads, will give you great pedal feel and it will probably only cost you 150

[Eddie@Performance]

Originally Posted by markyboi

well he said cheap upgrade, so i was thinking of the q45's


a set of q45 calipers, rotors, and pads, will give you great pedal feel and it will probably only cost you 150

Agreed, if you want a ultra cheap a step up upgrade, the Q45 brakes will suffice, but i still would recommend the Z32 brakes over the Q setup IMO. You will find better pads available for the Z32 setup for more serious driving.

[Fat Felix]

Thank you for everyone's imput!

I've not yet decided on what setup I want to run exactly yet, but all I know is that z32's won't be for me for a while..

And bicurious Tamtanium is way too faded.. my current s13 has a stock KA. I've never had a s13 with more than 300hp(even if I'm very optimistic about the numbers).

Once again, thanks everyone!




Edit: Are q45 brakes compatable with the jdm 180sx rotors? the 180sx rotors are the same thing as the usdm altima rotors right? If so, which year altima rotors do I need?

[OptionZero]

No, I'm fairly certain the 180sx came with a larger, single-piston sliding caliper of similar design to stock usdm s13(q45's are dual piston).

There's been a thread on this here and on FreshAlloy, but...yeah, you can search for it =P

Going off memory...i think it's the maxima caliper + altima rotor thats the equivalent...or altima caliper and maxima rotor. Dammit.

[1Via!]

93-98 (i think) Altima rotors for 4 lug, maxima rotors for 5 lug.


I have 180sx brakes(180 calipers, maxima rotors, spl parts stainless lines) with endless s-sport pads. With the RS2s that I usually have on, my car stops better and more confidently than cars I have driven with Z32 brakes, particularly cars with z32 brakes and crappy tires.

The only situation that would make me get z brakes is if I were running the car on track and had problems with fading.

Otherwise, its just a waste of money imo. Many people will tell you that you will stop better with high performance pads and stock calipers than zbrakes w/ stock pads.
...And who cares if you think you car looks cooler because your calipers say nissan on them.

[articdragon192]

I ran Q45 calipers with Brembo Rotors adn Z32 calipers in the rear with Endless SS-S pads all around and Motul brake fluid and stopping is insanely awesome with the stock MC. I ran this set up at SOW for 115 miles and it didnt fade once on me.

BTW, just because he doesnt have a lot of power doesnt mean he doesn't need the stopping ability. Bigger calipers and rotors also allow for heat dissipation which reduced brake fade.

[Neejay]

Originally Posted by Fat Felix

Edit: Are q45 brakes compatable with the jdm 180sx rotors? the 180sx rotors are the same thing as the usdm altima rotors right? If so, which year altima rotors do I need?

When I replaced my stuff, I got '97 Altima rotors, and '97 Maxima pads. I'm assuming its Maxima calipers due to using Maxima pads...Not 100% though, as I literally got my calipers off a 180sx front clip.